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Morality in Bible stories that you don't understand

What is the true identity of the old "God" of the Bible, YHWH?

Could he be a demon in disguise?

Where does he come from? How did he "evolve"?

Who was EL?

🤔
 
Thomas II said:
What is the true identity of the old "God" of the Bible, YHWH?

Could he be a demon in disguise?

Where does he come from? How did he "evolve"?

Who was EL?

🤔
Click to expand...

John Loftus recently published an excellent essay on your question. Who was YHWH?

What is almost always overlooked in debating the existence of the theistic god is that such a divine being has had a complex evolution over the centuries from Elohim, to Yahweh, to Jesus, and then to the god of the philosophers, without asking if the original gods had any merit. I will critically scrutinize each of these gods in what follows. If believers really understood the Bible, they wouldn’t believe in any of these gods.
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As for the story of Job:

Yahweh enlisted the barbaric thought police, a spy, a “satan” to find out if anyone was being hypocritical, because Yahweh didn’t know. The satan was a fully credentialed member of the divine court, Yahweh’s little helper. Satan accused Job of hypocrisy, that Job merely feigned allegiance to Yahweh in order to gain the benefits that only Yahweh could give him. So Yahweh allowed the satan to test Job with trials and tribulations and the loss of family and slaves to find out the truth. Yahweh did not know whether Job was guilty. If he already knew, then Job’s sufferings were pointless.
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In this story Yahweh lives in a separate palace in the sky and acts like a petty narcissistic king who would treat his subjects terribly simply because he could do so, just like any other despotic Mediterranean king they knew. Job was a pawn who was tortured for the pleasure of Yahweh and other sons of Elohim. At the end Yahweh doesn’t reveal why Job suffered, just that Job wasn’t capable of understanding why, so he was faulted for demanding an answer from the Almighty.
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I think the story of Job is good in a way. It made my dad feel better in his suffering because he thought it could be like Job and God will bless him eventually.
 
James Brown said:
Thomas II said:
What is the true identity of the old "God" of the Bible, YHWH?

Could he be a demon in disguise?

Where does he come from? How did he "evolve"?

Who was EL?

🤔
Click to expand...

John Loftus recently published an excellent essay on your question. Who was YHWH?

What is almost always overlooked in debating the existence of the theistic god is that such a divine being has had a complex evolution over the centuries from Elohim, to Yahweh, to Jesus, and then to the god of the philosophers, without asking if the original gods had any merit. I will critically scrutinize each of these gods in what follows. If believers really understood the Bible, they wouldn’t believe in any of these gods.
Click to expand...

As for the story of Job:

Yahweh enlisted the barbaric thought police, a spy, a “satan” to find out if anyone was being hypocritical, because Yahweh didn’t know. The satan was a fully credentialed member of the divine court, Yahweh’s little helper. Satan accused Job of hypocrisy, that Job merely feigned allegiance to Yahweh in order to gain the benefits that only Yahweh could give him. So Yahweh allowed the satan to test Job with trials and tribulations and the loss of family and slaves to find out the truth. Yahweh did not know whether Job was guilty. If he already knew, then Job’s sufferings were pointless.
Click to expand...

In this story Yahweh lives in a separate palace in the sky and acts like a petty narcissistic king who would treat his subjects terribly simply because he could do so, just like any other despotic Mediterranean king they knew. Job was a pawn who was tortured for the pleasure of Yahweh and other sons of Elohim. At the end Yahweh doesn’t reveal why Job suffered, just that Job wasn’t capable of understanding why, so he was faulted for demanding an answer from the Almighty.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Thank you so much! I'm reading John Wayne Loftus tonight. Excellent! WOW!

:)
 
DBT said:
God works in mysterious ways. ;)
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That's related to my belief in a non-obvious intelligent force:
iidb.org

"God does not play dice" and a non-obvious God

Albert Einstein said: God does not play dice with the universe https://www.businessinsider.com.au/god-does-not-play-dice-quote-meaning-2015-11 Stephen Hawking replied: Not only does God definitely play dice, but He sometimes confuses us by throwing them where they can't be seen...
iidb.org iidb.org
 
For me, I wouldn't have taken to the OT, if it weren't for Jesus, who by entering into the biblical epic of the NT, as I see it, 'validates' the OT. Notably, He didn't condemn Moses or the scriptures but instead, vouches for them instead. Jesus does condemn 'false preaching', 'teachings' and 'misrepresentations', foreseeing the future after His time on earth. Henceforth....I realised by that... I just didn't understand the theology then as compared to today - which I believe is the case now, by some posts.
 
Learner said:
For me, I wouldn't have taken to the OT, if it weren't for Jesus, who by entering into the biblical epic of the NT, as I see it, 'validates' the OT. Notably, He didn't condemn Moses or the scriptures but instead, vouches for them instead. Jesus does condemn 'false preaching', 'teachings' and 'misrepresentations', foreseeing the future after His time on earth. Henceforth....I realised by that... I just didn't understand the theology then as compared to today - which I believe is the case now, by some posts.
Click to expand...

It's kind of hard to justify the immorality of the OT. Even the terms and condition for salvation given in the NT is hard to justify...."believe in Jesus as your saviour or suffer the penalty of failure to comply" is hardly an example of morality or justice.
 
DBT said:
It's kind of hard to justify the immorality of the OT. Even the terms and condition for salvation given in the NT is hard to justify...."believe in Jesus as your saviour or suffer the penalty of failure to comply" is hardly an example of morality or justice.
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If there is a creator of the universe then perhaps there can be "absolute morality" (like the laws of a government) - even if there is the impression that some aspects of God's will/actions seem immoral (like the contents of this thread).
adamape.gif
 
DBT said:
It's kind of hard to justify the immorality of the OT. Even the terms and condition for salvation given in the NT is hard to justify...."believe in Jesus as your saviour or suffer the penalty of failure to comply" is hardly an example of morality or justice.
Click to expand...
If there is a creator of the universe then perhaps there can be "absolute morality" (like the laws of a government) - even if there is the impression that some aspects of God's will/actions seem immoral (like the contents of this thread).
adamape.gif

BTW here is an ad from Answers in Genesis about teaching children about a black and white morality:
 
For the sake of my son's life, I sincerely hope that YHWH never finds me blameless and upright. I certainly wouldn't want YHWH to mention my name during Satan's monthly status report. Nor would I want Satan to tempt YHWH into a bet to see if I can crack under pressure.

Leave me and my family alone, YHWH.
 
excreationist said:
DBT said:
It's kind of hard to justify the immorality of the OT. Even the terms and condition for salvation given in the NT is hard to justify...."believe in Jesus as your saviour or suffer the penalty of failure to comply" is hardly an example of morality or justice.
Click to expand...
If there is a creator of the universe then perhaps there can be "absolute morality" (like the laws of a government) - even if there is the impression that some aspects of God's will/actions seem immoral (like the contents of this thread).

BTW here is an ad from Answers in Genesis about teaching children about a black and white morality:
Click to expand...


Seem immoral? The actions attributed to God are immoral by the very same standards that are given in the bible. Thou shalt not kill....yet all of Job's family and livestock are killed over a wager.

Does that seem immoral according to the commandments, or is it clearly immoral?
 
James Brown said:
For the sake of my son's life, I sincerely hope that YHWH never finds me blameless and upright. I certainly wouldn't want YHWH to mention my name during Satan's monthly status report. Nor would I want Satan to tempt YHWH into a bet to see if I can crack under pressure.

Leave me and my family alone, YHWH.
Click to expand...
Holy shit!!! :oops:
 
Thomas II said:
What is the true identity of the old "God" of the Bible, YHWH?

Could he be a demon in disguise?

Where does he come from? How did he "evolve"?

Who was EL?

🤔
Click to expand...
El is kind of like ESPN+... where as all the other competitors start using the "+" for their streaming plan, hoping no one notices.
 
DBT said:
Seem immoral? The actions attributed to God are immoral by the very same standards that are given in the bible. Thou shalt not kill....yet all of Job's family and livestock are killed over a wager.

Does that seem immoral according to the commandments, or is it clearly immoral?
Click to expand...
The NIV is meant to be more accurate and in Exodus 20:13 it says "You shall not murder" (which involves human killing). The commandments were made for humans, not for God. Many Christians, including intelligent ones, believe that God is never immoral and can give fairly good reasons for this belief, at least in the opinion of other Christians.
 
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