Shooting reported at Paris magazine Charlie Hebdo

[Warpoet]

What? The Koran is pretty much just violence and justification for more violence: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

There is no "Blessed are the peacemakers" in Islam.

The Qur'an has all manner of contradictory messages, which can be and are interpreted in different ways. Also, the Qur'an is not the entirety of Islam; there is far more relevant material as well as centuries of legal discourse amongst ulema. Most Muslims know only bits and pieces of this, and many interpret it peacefully, and hence most of the world's Muslims aren't killing anybody.

Try actually talking to some, or getting analysis from actual scholars and not propaganda sites with blatant agendas.

 

[none]

Warpoet, was the "prophet" Muhammad a good Muslim?
I've heard he is the ideal Muslim...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Muhammad#Treatment_of_enemies

...
Magnanimity or moderation are nowhere discernible as features in the conduct of Mahomet towards such of his enemies as failed to tender a timely allegiance. Over the bodies of the Coreish who fell at Badr, he exulted with savage satisfaction; and several prisoners,—accused of no crime but that of scepticism and political opposition,—were deliberately executed at his command.
...
And what is perhaps worst of all, the dastardly assassination of political and religious opponents, countenanced and frequently directed as they were in all their cruel and perfidious details by Mahomet himself, leaves a dark and indelible blot upon his character.
...

 

[Warpoet]

Warpoet, was the "prophet" Muhammad a good Muslim?
I've heard he is the ideal Muslim...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Muhammad#Treatment_of_enemies

...
Magnanimity or moderation are nowhere discernible as features in the conduct of Mahomet towards such of his enemies as failed to tender a timely allegiance. Over the bodies of the Coreish who fell at Badr, he exulted with savage satisfaction; and several prisoners,—accused of no crime but that of scepticism and political opposition,—were deliberately executed at his command.
...
And what is perhaps worst of all, the dastardly assassination of political and religious opponents, countenanced and frequently directed as they were in all their cruel and perfidious details by Mahomet himself, leaves a dark and indelible blot upon his character.
...

The hell are you going on about? Was there a point to this copypasta?

Want to have a look at the prophets of the Old Testament? Shall we use them as a metric with which to judge modern-day Jews and Christians? No?

 

[none]

Warpoet, was the "prophet" Muhammad a good Muslim?
I've heard he is the ideal Muslim...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Muhammad#Treatment_of_enemies

The hell are you going on about? Was there a point to this copypasta?
Want to have a look at the prophets of the Old Testament? Shall we use them as a metric with which to judge modern-day Jews and Christians? No?

What metric do you suggest using?
Here the Quran says Muhammad is a good example, now you go run along and tell Muslims that Muhammad is not a good example.
Quran: 33/21

Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes for (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah much."

 

[Warpoet]

What metric do you suggest using?

Oh, I don't know, how about common fucking sense? I.e. judging people on their individual merits and not some fucking book that's thousands of years old?

Take your own advice and run along, please.

 

[Trausti]

What? The Koran is pretty much just violence and justification for more violence: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

There is no "Blessed are the peacemakers" in Islam.

The Qur'an has all manner of contradictory messages, which can be and are interpreted in different ways. Also, the Qur'an is not the entirety of Islam; there is far more relevant material as well as centuries of legal discourse amongst ulema. Most Muslims know only bits and pieces of this, and many interpret it peacefully, and hence most of the world's Muslims aren't killing anybody.

Try actually talking to some, or getting analysis from actual scholars and not propaganda sites with blatant agendas.

Maybe you're right. It like Fascism; you can interpret its ideas in many ways. Most fascist only know bits and pieces of the ideology, and view it peacefully. Don't sully an entire ideology just because some used it to justify killing.

 

[none]

What metric do you suggest using?

Oh, I don't know, how about common fucking sense? I.e. judging people on their individual merits and not some fucking book that's thousands of years old?

Take your own advice and run along, please.

why should I when you fail to realize that the metric Muslims use is the standard establish by Muhammad, now I want to know: Do you think Muhammad was a good Muslim?

 

[Warpoet]

Maybe you're right. It like Fascism; you can interpret its ideas in many ways. Most fascist only know bits and pieces of the ideology, and view it peacefully. Don't sully an entire ideology just because some used it to justify killing.

I don't give a shit what you say about the "ideology" (whatever that means); you run into problems with me, and with rational people, when you start making unsubstantiated blanket generalizations about people.

 

[none]

The Qur'an has all manner of contradictory messages, which can be and are interpreted in different ways. Also, the Qur'an is not the entirety of Islam; there is far more relevant material as well as centuries of legal discourse amongst ulema. Most Muslims know only bits and pieces of this, and many interpret it peacefully, and hence most of the world's Muslims aren't killing anybody.

Try actually talking to some, or getting analysis from actual scholars and not propaganda sites with blatant agendas.

Maybe you're right. It like Fascism; you can interpret its ideas in many ways. Most fascist only know bits and pieces of the ideology, and view it peacefully. Don't sully an entire ideology just because some used it to justify killing.

is it good for Muslims to emulate Muhammad?

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe you're right. It like Fascism; you can interpret its ideas in many ways. Most fascist only know bits and pieces of the ideology, and view it peacefully. Don't sully an entire ideology just because some used it to justify killing.

I don't give a shit what you say about the ideology; you run into problems with me, and with rational people, when you start making unsubstantiated blanket generalizations about people.

People like the "prophet" Muhammad and his followers? the body of Islam?

 

[Warpoet]

why should I when you fail to realize that the metric Muslims use is the standard establish by Muhammad,

Oh, really? So again, do we use the prophets of the Old Testament as a metric with which to judge Jews and Christians? Or are you running a double standard?

now I want to know: Do you think Muhammad was a good Muslim?

I don't care what you want. Come back when you have something relevant to contribute.

- - - Updated - - -

is it good for Muslims to emulate Muhammad?

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe you're right. It like Fascism; you can interpret its ideas in many ways. Most fascist only know bits and pieces of the ideology, and view it peacefully. Don't sully an entire ideology just because some used it to justify killing.

I don't give a shit what you say about the ideology; you run into problems with me, and with rational people, when you start making unsubstantiated blanket generalizations about people.

People like the "prophet" Muhammad and his followers? the body of Islam?

If you think repeating this silly line of questioning is going to accomplish anything beyond making you look stupid, think again.

 

[none]

Oh, really? So again, do we use the prophets of the Old Testament as a metric with which to judge Jews and Christians? Or are you running a double standard?

Trying to change the subject will not change the fact that Muslims believe Muhammad is a good Muslim and his standard is ideal for them.

now I want to know: Do you think Muhammad was a good Muslim?

I don't care what you want. Come back when you have something relevant to contribute.

It's really not okay for you to be dismissive when you are vying for so much attention.

If you think repeating this silly line of questioning is going to accomplish anything beyond making you look stupid, think again.

A simple yes or no will liberate you.

 

[Warpoet]

Trying to change the subject will not change the fact that Muslims believe Muhammad is a good Muslim and his standard is ideal for them.

Hardly changing the subject to point out that your idiotic reasoning more or less poisons the well, since we can judge any member of the Abrahamic faiths this way, and probably most people in general, thus rendering it a pointless exercise and hardly relevant to the discussion. But hey, don't let that get in the way of making a fool of yourself.

It's really not okay for you to be dismissive when you are vying for so much attention.

Vying for attention? From whom? Obtuse, drive-by posters with ass burgers and zero reading comprehension ability?

A simple yes or no will liberate you.

As would you simply doing us all a favor and matching your participation in this discussion to your username.

 

[none]

Hardly changing the subject to point out that your idiotic reasoning more or less poisons the well, since we can judge any member of the Abrahamic faiths this way, and probably most people in general, thus rendering it a pointless exercise and hardly relevant to the discussion. But hey, don't let that get in the way of making a fool of yourself.

You just can't accept that Muhammad is a horrible example and Muslims consider his example ideal, now get over yourself and play like an adult.
grow a little.

 

[Warpoet]

You just can't accept that Muhammad is a horrible example and Muslims consider his example ideal, now get over yourself and play like an adult.
grow a little.

Yes, that must be the problem here. It certainly couldn't be any failure of critical thinking on your end. Naw.

 

[none]

You just can't accept that Muhammad is a horrible example and Muslims consider his example ideal, now get over yourself and play like an adult.
grow a little.

Yes, that must be the problem here. It certainly couldn't be any failure of critical thinking on your end. Naw.

oh it's all about me and not you being honest that Muslims consider Muhammad ideal.
Muhammad killed the opposition and assassinated critics, and guess what that is the ideal for Muslims; Muslims will say Muhammad was a good Muslim.
I figure you'll continue to cater-ball and waste bandwidth but I'd hope you would say anything more idiotic than what you have already said but you probably won't.
as a Muslim apologist you almost have successfully obscured what you said, that we can't judge Muslims in a general way but the problem is Muhammad is the standard which they aspire to.

 

[Warpoet]

oh it's all about me and not you being honest that Muslims consider Muhammad ideal.
Muhammad killed the opposition and assassinated critics, and guess what that is the ideal for Muslims; Muslims will say Muhammad was a good Muslim.
I figure you'll continue to cater-ball and waste bandwidth but I'd hope you would say anything more idiotic than what you have already said but you probably won't.
as a Muslim apologist you almost have successfully obscured what you said, that we can't judge Muslims in a general way but the problem is Muhammad is the standard which they aspire to.

Yes, that's the problem for you, in your mind, which is presumably the only place in which your posts are comprehensible and coherent. I, and most rational people, understand that the content of thousands-year-old text is not a valid basis to judge the character of everyone who identifies with that religion, and if it were, the entire discussion is pointless, as a glance through pretty much any form of scripture makes clear. But that'd be reason speaking, and that's obviously not your strong suit.

 

[none]

oh it's all about me and not you being honest that Muslims consider Muhammad ideal.
Muhammad killed the opposition and assassinated critics, and guess what that is the ideal for Muslims; Muslims will say Muhammad was a good Muslim.
I figure you'll continue to cater-ball and waste bandwidth but I'd hope you would say anything more idiotic than what you have already said but you probably won't.
as a Muslim apologist you almost have successfully obscured what you said, that we can't judge Muslims in a general way but the problem is Muhammad is the standard which they aspire to.

Yes, that's the problem for you, in your mind, which is presumably the only place in which your posts are comprehensible and coherent. I, and most rational people, understand that the content of thousands-year-old text is not a valid basis to judge the character of everyone who identifies with that religion, and if it were, the entire discussion is pointless, as a glance through pretty much any form of scripture makes clear. But that'd be reason speaking, and that's obviously not your strong suit.

oh, it is about me again
let's talk about the content of your post: it's idiotic.
Muslims admit that Muhammad the "prophet" is a good example and aspire to be as such, when you get that through your think skull maybe we can talk some more.
I am taking a break from trying to make you less ignorant, maybe somebody else who isn't a Muslim apologist can explain it to you again.

 

[Warpoet]

oh, it is about me again
let's talk about the content of your post: it's idiotic.
Muslims admit that Muhammad the "prophet" is a good example and aspire to be as such, when you get that through your think skull maybe we can talk some more.
I am taking a break from trying to make you less ignorant, maybe somebody else who isn't a Muslim apologist can explain it to you again.

Actually, there's nothing to get through my "think" skull at all; your point has been restated about 20 times now, and it was void the first time for the reasons I just gave, which you still haven't actually addressed. If recognizing this makes one a "Muslim apologist," you probably shouldn't get your hopes up too much about that last bit. Enjoy your "break."

 

[repoman]

Moses (who was a myth and not real IMO) also was very cruel to some other tribes like the Midianites.

The question is whether Moses is held up as a moral example for some Jews and they think it is ok to be callous to outsiders like Moses.

Jesus (again not a real person) also had some judgmental statements and actions but nothing near Moses or Mohammed.

 

[Juma]

oh, it is about me again
let's talk about the content of your post: it's idiotic.
Muslims admit that Muhammad the "prophet" is a good example and aspire to be as such, when you get that through your think skull maybe we can talk some more.
I am taking a break from trying to make you less ignorant, maybe somebody else who isn't a Muslim apologist can explain it to you again.

Actually, there's nothing to get through my "think" skull at all; your point has been restated about 20 times now, and it was void the first time for the reasons I just gave, which you still haven't actually addressed. If recognizing this makes one a "Muslim apologist," you probably shouldn't get your hopes up too much about that last bit. Enjoy your "break."

What have jews and christians to do with this?
Is it, or is it not, true that viewing muhammad as a role model is part of islam?