Are there any "true" atheists?

[steve_bank]

What happened to Asherah in the Bible?
Asherah as a tree symbol was even said to have been "chopped down and burned outside the Temple in acts of certain rulers who were trying to 'purify' the cult, and focus on the worship of a single male god, Yahweh," he added.Mar 18, 2011

The 'roots' of women hating misogynists? Or maybe they just went gay......

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Logically, if 'hypothesis' then 'conclusion'. To a person mostly on this forum, your hypothesis is false, therefore the conclusion does not follow.

That's faulty logic. Any conditional statement is true as long as it does not does not have a true hypothesis followed by a false conclusion. So conditional statements having false hypotheses are all true!

Learn logic.

Why do I post here? YOU DO NOT HAVE A TRUE HYPOTHESIS! Therefore, we can make no correct statement about the veracity of your conclusion. That is perfect logic. Learn it. Statements in and of themselves are as dumb as the people making them. "If a function is continuous, then it is integrable." Logically not true, although the hypothesis can be true and so can the conclusion not be false when open to specific interpretation.

aa

OK, let me give it another try. From Ted Sundstrom's Mathematical Reasoning: Writing and Proof, Version 3 on page 7:

The conditional statement P → Q (if P then Q) means that Q is true whenever P is true. It says nothing about the truth value of Q when P is false. Using this as a guide, we define the conditional statement P → Q to be false only when P is true and Q is false, that is, only when the hypothesis is true and the conclusion is false. In all other cases, P → Q is true.

Now, I will wait in eager expectation for you to accept this correction.

 

[Rhea]

OP Question: “Are there any True Atheists”?
Unanimous answer, with proven examples: “Yes.”

There’s your logic.

 

[Shadowy Man]

OP Question: “Are there any True Atheists”?
Unanimous answer, with proven examples: “Yes.”

There’s your logic.

it only took 180 posts to get there.

 

[TomC]

OP Question: “Are there any True Atheists”?
Unanimous answer, with proven examples: “Yes.”

There’s your logic.

It occurs to me, perhaps it's the "True" part of the question that matters to @Unknown Soldier .

That's a lot messier. So I just stick with somebody's self description. Same with almost every such thing. There's no meaning that has any mathematical certainty. Even the "doesn't believe in any god(s)" isn't utterly simple and clear. Personally, I find "considers religion to be fiction" more useful.
Tom

 

[Unknown Soldier]

OP Question: “Are there any True Atheists”?
Unanimous answer, with proven examples: “Yes.”

There’s your logic.

I'm willing to concede that there are at least some true atheists who completely lack theistic beliefs, but the word of some obviously biased anonymous people on an internet forum who say they are "totally atheistic" isn't what I would call proof or logic. What's been asserted on this thread against the possibility of atheist-theist hybrids has been very dogmatic and even involves the rejection of scientific evidence to the contrary (e.g. cognitive dissonance as a means by which a person believes in God and disbelieves in God).

Has anybody else here noted the irony of professed atheists acting like theists to prove that atheists aren't theists?

Anyway, what are compelling reasons to conclude that some people have no belief at all in any Gods? Some people may not be able to believe in God due to cognitive limitations like brain damage. (And I am tempted to offer some real-life examples!) Others may simply have never been exposed to the idea of a deity and therefore never seriously entertained the idea.

 

[TomC]

Has anybody else here noted the irony of professed atheists acting like theists to prove that atheists aren't theists?

No, I haven't.
Maybe you could provide an example? Mostly what I see is more like people on the internet having a frustrating dialogue. People tend to behave similarly, whether theists or something else.
Tom

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I'm willing to concede that there are at least some true atheists who completely lack theistic beliefs, ...

Therefore, your thread is answered and at least in theory the discussion could end with your concession. But really will it? Will it ever end?

...but the word of some obviously biased anonymous people on an internet forum who say they are "totally atheistic" isn't what I would call proof or logic.

That's true for every discussion on every Internet forum in the Universe. People say stuff. You can't always take them at their words or their identities. For example, you could be a serial killer and someone else in the thread could be a Viking. Both of you could secretly believe in Santa Claus but not want to admit it. There's no point in discussing these types of infinite possibilities because there is no end to any discussion if so.

What's been asserted on this thread against the possibility of atheist-theist hybrids has been very dogmatic and even involves the rejection of scientific evidence to the contrary (e.g. cognitive dissonance as a means by which a person believes in God and disbelieves in God).

There's been quite a lot of discussion of cognitive dissonance, but none of it have you responded to. What is the limit of cognitive dissonance? I said I have now been exposed to the idea of Magic Pink Pony and so now I have cognitive dissonance, both believing and disbelieving in it. That's certainly compatible with how you presented the limitless idea of cognitive dissonance. Wouldn't it make more sense that a person could at least sometimes test out how reasonable a new idea is before incorporating it into their idea world and assigning some kind of probability to it? If not, then how are you rejecting Magic Pink Pony except through reason? Or do you admit Magic Pink Pony is now irrevocably a part of your psyche?

Has anybody else here noted the irony of professed atheists acting like theists to prove that atheists aren't theists?

Some people reject the idea of cognitive dissonance because you are applying it where you ought not apply it and others have rejected it because they perceive it is not currently an issue for them in their atheism and others have commented or not commented. As for myself, I commented that you are right and that's why I now admit I am an atheist Jehovah's Witness Mormon who also believes in Magic Pink Pony. You can't really argue against this because then it opens up your claim to the same attack you will use to explain away these things. And perhaps this is why you haven't commented on them as yet. It will take time for you to plan your next 3D checkers move.

Anyway, what are compelling reasons to conclude that some people have no belief at all in any Gods? Some people may not be able to believe in God due to cognitive limitations like brain damage. (And I am tempted to offer some real-life examples!)

Is it that much more fun to delve in the personal than to open up your idea to possible flaws?

Others may simply have never been exposed to the idea of a deity and therefore never seriously entertained the idea.

So you mean like babies. If only someone brought this to your attention pages ago.

 

[Shadowy Man]

OP Question: “Are there any True Atheists”?
Unanimous answer, with proven examples: “Yes.”

There’s your logic.

I'm willing to concede that there are at least some true atheists who completely lack theistic beliefs,

Great!. This thread is done then. Question asked, answered and accepted.

Any further discussion is a derail and perhaps worthy of a new thread. But probably not.

 

[southernhybrid]

I don't really care if Soldier doesn't believe we are atheists, but I think it's weird that he would he think we would lie about something like that, considering that most of us live in the US and according to some surveys I've read, atheists are the mosts hated people in the US. I have friends who are still in the closet regarding their atheism for that reason. I know I"m an atheist who has never been tempted to consider there might be gods. It's fine to be agnostic or theistic, despite the lack of evidence for gods. Myths have been powerful throughout human civilization, and they probably always will be at least to some extent for some people. My hope is that these myth believers never use these myths for harm.

I did find it amusing that cognitive dissonance was mentioned since it was exactly cognitive dissonance that turned me away from religion and the belief in any gods. The belief in a powerful, invisible, all knowing being that no-one has ever seen, other than in their dreams or delusions, does't make any more sense than the myth of Santa Claus....."he sees you when you're sleeping...he knows when you're awake....he knows if you've been good or bad, so be good for goodness sake". As the former poster Mad Kally used to say, "God is Santa Claus for adults".

I don't believe in Santa or any gods. I'm not afraid of going to hell because we only live once and when we're dead we're done. The term afterlife is an oxymoron. Don't worry Soldier. You're not going to hell and neither are the rest of us.

I'm outta here. The thread has been declared dead but I felt the need to write a postscript.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Has anybody else here noted the irony of professed atheists acting like theists to prove that atheists aren't theists?

No, I haven't.

You've got to admit it's hilarious.

Maybe you could provide an example?

I'd cite the general tenor of those on this thread who cannot tolerate the idea of an atheist believing in God. The simplistic assertions that it just isn't so are legion not to mention the science and logic I posted only to be ignored or mocked remind me of the religious defending their dogmas.

Mostly what I see is more like people on the internet having a frustrating dialogue. People tend to behave similarly, whether theists or something else.
Tom

That's correct. When an important belief is on the chopping block, atheists as well as theists come riding in to save the day.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

It looks like it is now time for thread eulogies.

I'll start...

 

[Rhea]

I'd cite the general tenor of those on this thread who cannot tolerate the idea of an atheist believing in God.

Oh, gosh, I know what you mean! It’s like the irony of those who cannot tolerate the idea of a circle having corners. CRAZY, innit?

 

[Shadowy Man]

I'd cite the general tenor of those on this thread who cannot tolerate the idea of an atheist believing in God.

Is it possible you are misreading the tenor?

The simplistic assertions that it just isn't so are legion

You yourself admitted it was possible for “true” atheists to exist so what’s your problem with others saying it, too?

I guess they didn’t reach that conclusion the through the superior logic you have demonstrated. Maybe that’s the problem?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I'd cite the general tenor of those on this thread who cannot tolerate the idea of an atheist believing in God.

Oh, gosh, I know what you mean! It’s like the irony of those who cannot tolerate the idea of a circle having corners. CRAZY, innit?

People can think of circles with four corners. You just did so.

 

[TomC]

I'd cite the general tenor of those on this thread who cannot tolerate the idea of an atheist believing in God.

Oh, gosh, I know what you mean! It’s like the irony of those who cannot tolerate the idea of a circle having corners. CRAZY, innit?

People can think of circles with four corners. You just did so.

That sounds really theist to me.
In the sense of demonstrably irrational but still...

It's like the theists who will go on and on explaining that God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, but powerless against childhood leukemia or eternal damnation.

Then tells me that He's a benevolent God who Loves me. And I'm going to hell because I'm unapologetically gay. And, somehow, that's my fault. So when I'm dead God's hands are tied. He can't do anything important about it because He's God!

Yeah
No


I sorta believe in an Original Source. But nothing remotely like a God.
Tom

 

[abaddon]

That sounds really theist to me.
In the sense of demonstrably irrational but still...

It's like the theists who will go on and on explaining that God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, but powerless against childhood leukemia or eternal damnation.

Then tells me that He's a benevolent God who Loves me. And I'm going to hell because I'm unapologetically gay. And, somehow, that's my fault. So when I'm dead God's hands are tied. He can't do anything important about it because He's God!

Yeah
No

The irrationality itself isn't theistic. That many theists suck at arguing doesn't make "sucks at arguing" theistic. No more than being (or seeming) dogmatic, tenacious or fervent in arguments are "atheistic".

But there is a LOT of similarity to the theist's "there's an image of God in our hearts that atheists deny". He's modified it from being an image in "the heart" to being an impulse in "the subconscious". And instead of being universal to all 'hearts', he's tried to back off from that absolutism a little and allow it's only many atheists who are lying about the secrets of their subconscious. (So gracious is the moralizer!)

 

[Unknown Soldier]

But there is a LOT of similarity to the theist's "there's an image of God in our hearts that atheists deny".

Not all theists say that, of course. Many theists are too busy dealing with their own repressed atheism. I used to have that very experience when I was a Christian; I was a theist trying to eliminate my atheism.

If you can't take an atheist with some theism, then is a theist with some atheism OK?

He's modified it from being an image in "the heart" to being an impulse in "the subconscious".

I don't recall posting anything about images in hearts. Are you just being suspicious?

And instead of being universal to all 'hearts', he's tried to back off from that absolutism a little and allow it's only many atheists who are lying about the secrets of their subconscious. (So gracious is the moralizer!)

Again, you're obviously putting words into my posts. I will defend what I've said, but I won't defend what you say I've said.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I sorta believe in an Original Source. But nothing remotely like a God.
Tom

I used to think in absolutes that way--both as a Christian and now as an "atheist." Because the world is rarely absolute, I've decided to drop the label "atheist" at least as a label for me and have adopted "truth seeker" as a more accurate description of what I am. Because of the behavior of atheists in this forum and elsewhere, I've come to see atheism as very distasteful--about as bad as Christianity. I no longer wish to be associated with its irrationality, contempt for people, and disrespect for the truth.

 

[Rhea]

I don't recall posting anything about images in hearts. Are you just being suspicious?

I think you missed his point rather whooshingly.
The regular theists say “in your heart” and you’ve modified it to “in your subconscious”.
Now do you see what his words meant?