High Kicks and Low Wages: The price of being a NFL Cheerleader.

[Axulus]

For the thrill of being able to perform in front of a huge audience and to be on TV and to show off your skills. It would be just like any other hobby, they pay for it because they enjoy doing it.

I honestly don't see how it would fail the substance-over-form doctrine. The NFL is renting out high value space (field space during a live game). That space is surely worth tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars per game. However, they are free to attract groups they find more desirable by offering them discounts on that space to use it. If you are willing to perform a cheer-leading routine and your group meets certain minimum requirements, then we'll let you rent the space at a significant discount to FMV.

If the thrill is enough, why pay anyone anything?

Why charge ticket prices? Why not replace concessions with a free buffet?

Because there is money to be made, that is why. And everyone involved in putting on a show, contributes to the value of the show.

What I don't get is why so many people are so dead set against paying minimum wage to professional entertainers?

We aren't dead set against it. What we are trying to reveal is the unintended consequences of trying to crack down on it in some situations: there are other options available to avoid it that will presumably make the cheerleaders worse off. They may remove having cheerleaders all together, may make it strictly a voluntary basis, or may allow amateur groups to rent field space during a game to put on a show. Which situation do you think is best for cheerleaders among these possibilities?

 

[dismal]

If the thrill is enough, why pay anyone anything?

Exactly. They don't have to. They are just being nice. Start suing them and they won't be nice anymore. Thanks, activists!

 

[Axulus]

If the thrill is enough, why pay anyone anything?

Exactly. They don't have to. They are just being nice. Start suing them and they won't be nice anymore. Thanks, activists!

Yep, and it reveals how bogus the red herrings about slavery and cleaning toilets are.

Is living as a slave such a thrill that people will volunteer to be one for free?

Is cleaning other people's toilets such a thrill that people will volunteer to do it for free?

What is the monetary value of the thrill to the NFL cheerleaders of performing in front of a huge live audience and on TV and showing off your looks and skill during a game? Shouldn't this be taken into account when talking about minimum wage, or is this one of those cases where leftists know the price of everything and the value of nothing?

 

[Bronzeage]

For the thrill of being able to perform in front of a huge audience and to be on TV and to show off your skills. It would be just like any other hobby, they pay for it because they enjoy doing it.

I honestly don't see how it would fail the substance-over-form doctrine. The NFL is renting out high value space (field space during a live game). That space is surely worth tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars per game. However, they are free to attract groups they find more desirable by offering them discounts on that space to use it. If you are willing to perform a cheer-leading routine and your group meets certain minimum requirements, then we'll let you rent the space at a significant discount to FMV.

If the thrill is enough, why pay anyone anything?

Why charge ticket prices? Why not replace concessions with a free buffet?

Because there is money to be made, that is why. And everyone involved in putting on a show, contributes to the value of the show.

What I don't get is why so many people are so dead set against paying minimum wage to professional entertainers?

The simplest solution is to let the cheerleaders give lap dances in the stands.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

If the thrill is enough, why pay anyone anything?

Why charge ticket prices? Why not replace concessions with a free buffet?

Because there is money to be made, that is why. And everyone involved in putting on a show, contributes to the value of the show.

What I don't get is why so many people are so dead set against paying minimum wage to professional entertainers?

The simplest solution is to let the cheerleaders give lap dances in the stands.

Beats selling calendars.

- - - Updated - - -

Exactly. They don't have to. They are just being nice. Start suing them and they won't be nice anymore. Thanks, activists!

Yep, and it reveals how bogus the red herrings about slavery and cleaning toilets are.

Is living as a slave such a thrill that people will volunteer to be one for free?

Is cleaning other people's toilets such a thrill that people will volunteer to do it for free?

What is the monetary value of the thrill to the NFL cheerleaders of performing in front of a huge live audience and on TV and showing off your looks and skill during a game? Shouldn't this be taken into account when talking about minimum wage, or is this one of those cases where leftists know the price of everything and the value of nothing?

It does sound like the league is treating them as employees/hired entertainers, so yeah, they should be compensated.

 

[dismal]

It does sound like the league is treating them as employees/hired entertainers, so yeah, they should be compensated.

This whole "employee/hired" descriptor goes away when you stop paying them. Thanks activists.

 

[Nexus]

We aren't dead set against it. What we are trying to reveal is the unintended consequences of trying to crack down on it in some situations: there are other options available to avoid it that will presumably make the cheerleaders worse off.

You and Dismal can stop pretending you're concerned about the cheerleaders being worse off no one is buying that.

 

[Nexus]

This whole "employee/hired" descriptor goes away when you stop paying them. Thanks activists.

Are you being sarcastic when you say "thanks activists" or "thanks unions". If so why not express scorn for the NFL choosing to not pay them at all rather than pay minimum wage. If you are being sincere with your thanks at least its consistent with your posting history of advocating against workers or the poor.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Exactly. They don't have to. They are just being nice. Start suing them and they won't be nice anymore. Thanks, activists!

Yep, and it reveals how bogus the red herrings about slavery and cleaning toilets are.

Is living as a slave such a thrill that people will volunteer to be one for free?

Is cleaning other people's toilets such a thrill that people will volunteer to do it for free?

What is the monetary value of the thrill to the NFL cheerleaders of performing in front of a huge live audience and on TV and showing off your looks and skill during a game? Shouldn't this be taken into account when talking about minimum wage, or is this one of those cases where leftists know the price of everything and the value of nothing?

This leftist knows that the minimum wage is the law and breaking that law is no-no.

Hence the settlement in CA (1.25 million for the Raiderettes), the bill currently going thru the state house in CA, and the shit ton of bad PR the NFL is getting over the refusal to pay grown women the minimum amount of wages for their time and effort.

Care to actually address that? Or why the idea of paying professional entertainers minimum wages irks some here so?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

These women are professional entertainers and if they were working under SAG rules, they would be making a helluva lot more than they are now.

 

[Axulus]

We aren't dead set against it. What we are trying to reveal is the unintended consequences of trying to crack down on it in some situations: there are other options available to avoid it that will presumably make the cheerleaders worse off.

You and Dismal can stop pretending you're concerned about the cheerleaders being worse off no one is buying that.

Because we all know in leftist fantasy world, there is no such thing as unintended consequences.

- - - Updated - - -

These women are professional entertainers and if they were working under SAG rules, they would be making a helluva lot more than they are now.

How much are the cheerleaders getting paid on the Detroit Lions, The Chicago Bears, New York Giants, Pittsburgh Steelers, Cleveland Browns and Green Bay Packers?

 

[Nexus]

You and Dismal can stop pretending you're concerned about the cheerleaders being worse off no one is buying that.

Because we all know in leftist fantasy world, there is no such thing as unintended consequences.

So are you genuinely concerned that cheerleaders currently making sub-minimum wage will instead make no wage? Is that truly your concern?

 

[Axulus]

Because we all know in leftist fantasy world, there is no such thing as unintended consequences.

So are you genuinely concerned that cheerleaders currently making sub-minimum wage will instead make no wage? Is that truly your concern?

I'm not concerned with the current wages because it is my belief that they are making more than minimum wage once you include the non-monetary value of the enjoyment of being a cheerleader on an NFL team. These women can easily obtain a job paying above minimum wage with their looks alone if they really need the money.

Why shouldn't the non-monetary benefits count for anything? Is the only thing that matters in life money?

I'm more concerned that lawsuits and cracking down will lead to more NFL teams eliminating cheerleading squads all together, like six have already done. That means these women get paid 0 and must go out and find that alternate job anyway and don't get the option of having the enjoyment of being an NFL cheerleader if that is what they enjoy.

If there was demand for NFL cheerleaders and limited numbers of women who enjoyed it, then you'd see the pay naturally rise in order to attract sufficient numbers.

 

[Draconis]

Didn't read about a couple of cheerleaders breaking their necks doing all these tricks, tumbling, etc?

Hardly worth it really.

 

[Derec]

I used to work with a guy who was part of the cheer squad for the Falcons. Yes, a guy, so it's not a gender issue. Not sure what his exact function was (it was a while ago), perhaps he did the same thing as Dubya at A&M.

In any case he did it on the side, almost like a hobby, and had a day job.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

So are you genuinely concerned that cheerleaders currently making sub-minimum wage will instead make no wage? Is that truly your concern?

I'm not concerned with the current wages because it is my belief that they are making more than minimum wage once you include the non-monetary value of the enjoyment of being a cheerleader on an NFL team. These women can easily obtain a job paying above minimum wage with their looks alone if they really need the money.

Why shouldn't the non-monetary benefits count for anything? Is the only thing that matters in life money?

I'm more concerned that lawsuits and cracking down will lead to more NFL teams eliminating cheerleading squads all together, like six have already done. That means these women get paid 0 and must go out and find that alternate job anyway and don't get the option of having the enjoyment of being an NFL cheerleader if that is what they enjoy.

If there was demand for NFL cheerleaders and limited numbers of women who enjoyed it, then you'd see the pay naturally rise in order to attract sufficient numbers.

A job by law must pay the required minimum wage.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

So are you genuinely concerned that cheerleaders currently making sub-minimum wage will instead make no wage? Is that truly your concern?

I'm not concerned with the current wages because it is my belief that they are making more than minimum wage once you include the non-monetary value of the enjoyment of being a cheerleader on an NFL team. These women can easily obtain a job paying above minimum wage with their looks alone if they really need the money.

Why shouldn't the non-monetary benefits count for anything? Is the only thing that matters in life money?

I'm more concerned that lawsuits and cracking down will lead to more NFL teams eliminating cheerleading squads all together, like six have already done. That means these women get paid 0 and must go out and find that alternate job anyway and don't get the option of having the enjoyment of being an NFL cheerleader if that is what they enjoy.

If there was demand for NFL cheerleaders and limited numbers of women who enjoyed it, then you'd see the pay naturally rise in order to attract sufficient numbers.

Tell you what. Go to your boss or your clients/customers or, if you are retired, your pension provider and tell them that from now on you are willing to take non monetary payment because other things matter more in life.

As for getting rid of the cheerleaders, if the job is only paying you a ticket to go the game and for parking, what exactly have you lost? According to just the posters here, no one is watching the cheerleaders, they have no worth to the team, they add no value to finished product, should be all volunteers and be damn glad to do so.

 

[Axulus]

I'm not concerned with the current wages because it is my belief that they are making more than minimum wage once you include the non-monetary value of the enjoyment of being a cheerleader on an NFL team. These women can easily obtain a job paying above minimum wage with their looks alone if they really need the money.

Why shouldn't the non-monetary benefits count for anything? Is the only thing that matters in life money?

I'm more concerned that lawsuits and cracking down will lead to more NFL teams eliminating cheerleading squads all together, like six have already done. That means these women get paid 0 and must go out and find that alternate job anyway and don't get the option of having the enjoyment of being an NFL cheerleader if that is what they enjoy.

If there was demand for NFL cheerleaders and limited numbers of women who enjoyed it, then you'd see the pay naturally rise in order to attract sufficient numbers.

A job by law must pay the required minimum wage.

But not a hobby should the NFL attempt to turn it into one.

 

[Axulus]

Tell you what. Go to your boss or your clients/customers or, if you are retired, your pension provider and tell them that from now on you are willing to take non monetary payment because other things matter more in life.

I attempt to extract the maximum value I can in a combination of both monetary and non monetary benefits from my job. Non monetary benefits include ideas to improve my job enjoyment and satisfaction with my boss, vacation time, start time flexibility, among other things.

As for getting rid of the cheerleaders, if the job is only paying you a ticket to go the game and for parking, what exactly have you lost? According to just the posters here, no one is watching the cheerleaders, they have no worth to the team, they add no value to finished product, should be all volunteers and be damn glad to do so.

Some watch the cheerleaders for a few minutes. They have some value to the spectators. There is no should about any of it. If they are willing to be volunteers and are glad to volunteer, that's their business.

 

[dismal]

We aren't dead set against it. What we are trying to reveal is the unintended consequences of trying to crack down on it in some situations: there are other options available to avoid it that will presumably make the cheerleaders worse off.

You and Dismal can stop pretending you're concerned about the cheerleaders being worse off no one is buying that.

What I'm doing is applying logic and engaging foresight. As opposed to shrieking out the latest grievance before I've really thought about whether anyone was aggrieved at all.

I find logic and foresight to be useful -- maybe even here. It keeps you from arguing things like African slavery was voluntary in a thread about cheerleaders.