Venezuela - Updated Chronicles in Socialist Success Stories!

[Axulus]

Is this true or not?

Because if it is true then that is one thing and if it is not that is another.

It makes no sense that they would do so. It would only cost them for no gain.

They just need someone to blame for the shortages other than their own mismanagement.

And even if they are stockpiling, it could be for very good reason: the economy is in deep recession. Money for imports is draining fast. A severe crisis is at hand. Best to do some stockpiling and release the goods slowly to the public over a period of time so that it lasts through the crisis and the people don't starve. They are going to have to get used to very lean times. Best to stretch what little is available out a bit rather than consume too much and have almost nothing available whatsoever when the crisis reaches the deepest part.

 

[untermensche]

It makes no sense that they would do so. It would only cost them for no gain.

They just need someone to blame for the shortages other than their own mismanagement.

And even if they are stockpiling, it could be for very good reason: the economy is in deep recession. Money for imports is draining fast. A severe crisis is at hand. Best to do some stockpiling and release the goods slowly to the public over a period of time so that it lasts through the crisis and the people don't starve. They are going to have to get used to very lean times. Best to stretch what little is available out a bit rather than consume too much and have almost nothing available whatsoever when the crisis reaches the deepest part.

That's a good one.

Create shortages by holding goods back.

Then claim the shortages are why you are holding goods back.

The ultimate question is whether or not it is true.

Mere speculation from outside of Venezuela isn't going to answer that question. If companies are deliberately creating shortages then demonizing any government trying to deal with that is absurd.

 

[dismal]

And even if they are stockpiling, it could be for very good reason: the economy is in deep recession. Money for imports is draining fast. A severe crisis is at hand. Best to do some stockpiling and release the goods slowly to the public over a period of time so that it lasts through the crisis and the people don't starve. They are going to have to get used to very lean times. Best to stretch what little is available out a bit rather than consume too much and have almost nothing available whatsoever when the crisis reaches the deepest part.

That's a good one.

Create shortages by holding goods back.

Then claim the shortages are why you are holding goods back.

The ultimate question is whether or not it is true.

Mere speculation from outside of Venezuela isn't going to answer that question. If companies are deliberately creating shortages then demonizing any government trying to deal with that is absurd.

What evidence do you have that people are holding goods back to create shortages?

 

[Axulus]

And even if they are stockpiling, it could be for very good reason: the economy is in deep recession. Money for imports is draining fast. A severe crisis is at hand. Best to do some stockpiling and release the goods slowly to the public over a period of time so that it lasts through the crisis and the people don't starve. They are going to have to get used to very lean times. Best to stretch what little is available out a bit rather than consume too much and have almost nothing available whatsoever when the crisis reaches the deepest part.

That's a good one.

Create shortages by holding goods back.

Then claim the shortages are why you are holding goods back.

The ultimate question is whether or not it is true.

Mere speculation from outside of Venezuela isn't going to answer that question. If companies are deliberately creating shortages then demonizing any government trying to deal with that is absurd.

It's why these kind of decisions are best left to private individuals than by some central planner: you obviously can not have every piece of relevant information that's going on. You've also apparently never had to live through a shortage: your attitude is to consume everything today and not worry about whether there will be food tomorrow.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And even if they are stockpiling, it could be for very good reason: the economy is in deep recession. Money for imports is draining fast. A severe crisis is at hand. Best to do some stockpiling and release the goods slowly to the public over a period of time so that it lasts through the crisis and the people don't starve. They are going to have to get used to very lean times. Best to stretch what little is available out a bit rather than consume too much and have almost nothing available whatsoever when the crisis reaches the deepest part.

That's a good one.

Create shortages by holding goods back.

Then claim the shortages are why you are holding goods back.

The ultimate question is whether or not it is true.

Mere speculation from outside of Venezuela isn't going to answer that question. If companies are deliberately creating shortages then demonizing any government trying to deal with that is absurd.

I see no reason to think his scenario is right but even if it is it makes sense--it's not like there aren't shortages anyway.

 

[untermensche]

That's a good one.

Create shortages by holding goods back.

Then claim the shortages are why you are holding goods back.

The ultimate question is whether or not it is true.

Mere speculation from outside of Venezuela isn't going to answer that question. If companies are deliberately creating shortages then demonizing any government trying to deal with that is absurd.

What evidence do you have that people are holding goods back to create shortages?

It is only what the Venezuelan government has claimed.

Suppose it were true.

Would that change anything?

 

[arkirk]

That's a good one.

Create shortages by holding goods back.

Then claim the shortages are why you are holding goods back.

The ultimate question is whether or not it is true.

Mere speculation from outside of Venezuela isn't going to answer that question. If companies are deliberately creating shortages then demonizing any government trying to deal with that is absurd.

I see no reason to think his scenario is right but even if it is it makes sense--it's not like there aren't shortages anyway.

And Venezuela is the only place that has shortages? I have stated earlier, the problem with Venezuela is that it has relied too heavily on oil wealth and the Saudis are busy not with shortages but with abundances of cheap oil knocking the bottom out of Russian and Venezuelan and Iranian market share. The Saudis are not too good at sharing. Why don't you concern yourself with the problems we have here in America. It really shouldn't be your place to criticize others who might have problems they cannot control...in foreign countries you country will not help.

 

[maxparrish]

The merry-making in Venezuela continues, each day reporting the fun of building a worker's paradise:

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But hey, any country the arrests a judge for insufficiently harsh sentencing can't be all bad

 

[Loren Pechtel]

What evidence do you have that people are holding goods back to create shortages?

It is only what the Venezuelan government has claimed.

Suppose it were true.

Would that change anything?

Just because you like the allegation is no reason to think it's true.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I see no reason to think his scenario is right but even if it is it makes sense--it's not like there aren't shortages anyway.

And Venezuela is the only place that has shortages? I have stated earlier, the problem with Venezuela is that it has relied too heavily on oil wealth and the Saudis are busy not with shortages but with abundances of cheap oil knocking the bottom out of Russian and Venezuelan and Iranian market share. The Saudis are not too good at sharing. Why don't you concern yourself with the problems we have here in America. It really shouldn't be your place to criticize others who might have problems they cannot control...in foreign countries you country will not help.

They were in trouble anyway--we've seen plenty of shortages before. The oil price drop is simply the straw that broke their back.

 

[Axulus]

Now it seems that Canada and the UK are joining Joe Biden on the coup plot:

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/ne...ent-in-Venezuela-Coup-Plot-20150213-0035.html

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Now it seems that Canada and the UK are joining Joe Biden on the coup plot:

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/ne...ent-in-Venezuela-Coup-Plot-20150213-0035.html

And they're focusing on the 10-year visa as if that means anything.

Never mind that the US has been trying to negotiate reciprocal 10-year visas with many nations.

Am I somehow an agent of China because I have a 10-year Chinese visa? (The US and China made such an agreement only days before we got our most recent visa.)

 

[maxparrish]

Building a Bolivarian revolution is hard work!

 

[Axulus]

Building a Bolivarian revolution is hard work!

And just imagine, these numbers would be even better without Joe Biden, the CIA, Canada and the right wing economic saboteurs in the picture.

 

[arkirk]

Enjoy stroking each others' beards. You guy are not in charge of Venezuela...yet. You just seem to hate them and to trump up all sorts of shit with graphs with circles and arrows and bullshit. Our government does all it can against Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, it is just trying to outdo Ronald Reagan's 80's tampering in these countries. Most of Venezuela's problems do not have at their root, the Bolivarians. It's the oil stupid.

There is no way to chart human well being. You really hate socialists and socialism. I really get a kick out of watching experts run the world from their armchairs, knowing where all the good guys are and all the stupid unworthy ones are. Invariably the unworthy are always lefties who have been duped by the old Marx poo poo...or muslims. The worthy ones are capitalists who earn their way into power ....with their money. Good going guys.

 

[Derec]

Most of Venezuela's problems do not have at their root, the Bolivarians. It's the oil stupid.

On the contrary, the high oil prices are the only thing that allowed the "Bolivarian^* Revolution" to survive this long with all the economic mismanagement this government has done since it took power. Take PDVSA itself - key position filled with boligarchs and the company starved of operating capital (and not to mention outright stealing from foreign companies PDVSA contracted with) which has the result of oil production actually being significantly down since Chavez took over.

Now that oil prices are lower than they used to be the rot is more obvious, but the edifice has been rotting since 1999. Note that the oil prices now (~$52/bbl WTI) are still more than 4 times higher than they were when Chavez was elected ($11.61). So to bellyache that oil price slump somehow caused (rather than exposed) problems with the Venezuelan economy has no basis in reality.

There is no way to chart human well being. You really hate socialists and socialism. I really get a kick out of watching experts run the world from their armchairs, knowing where all the good guys are and all the stupid unworthy ones are. Invariably the unworthy are always lefties who have been duped by the old Marx poo poo...or muslims. The worthy ones are capitalists who earn their way into power ....with their money. Good going guys.

Is there a point somewhere at the end of this rant?

^* Simon Bolivar must be spinning in his grave so fast they could hook up a generator to his coffin.

 

[maxparrish]

Enjoy stroking each others' beards. You guy are not in charge of Venezuela...yet. You just seem to hate them and to trump up all sorts of shit with graphs with circles and arrows and bullshit. Our government does all it can against Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, it is just trying to outdo Ronald Reagan's 80's tampering in these countries. Most of Venezuela's problems do not have at their root, the Bolivarians. It's the oil stupid.

There is no way to chart human well being. You really hate socialists and socialism. I really get a kick out of watching experts run the world from their armchairs, knowing where all the good guys are and all the stupid unworthy ones are. Invariably the unworthy are always lefties who have been duped by the old Marx poo poo...or muslims. The worthy ones are capitalists who earn their way into power ....with their money. Good going guys.

Derec, to be honest, I rarely find a substantive point in any Arkirk rant. The rants are like a caricature, a right-of-center parody of emotionalism, denial, and hair-pulling...generously peppered with lots of thoughtless bumper-sticker sloganeering. Apparently on Arkirk world "graphs" of financial facts are 'shit' and well-being has nothing to do with employment, consumer prices, widespread shortages, and depleted income for spending.

But then, I suppose for Arkirk, why worry about trivialities like rent, food, or employment when you can wear a red beret and join a choir singing the praises of socialism? Who needs food when your having so much fun?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

There is no way to chart human well being. You really hate socialists and socialism. I really get a kick out of watching experts run the world from their armchairs, knowing where all the good guys are and all the stupid unworthy ones are. Invariably the unworthy are always lefties who have been duped by the old Marx poo poo...or muslims. The worthy ones are capitalists who earn their way into power ....with their money. Good going guys.

In other words, ignore the facts.

 

[dismal]

There is no way to chart human well being. You really hate socialists and socialism. I really get a kick out of watching experts run the world from their armchairs, knowing where all the good guys are and all the stupid unworthy ones are. Invariably the unworthy are always lefties who have been duped by the old Marx poo poo...or muslims. The worthy ones are capitalists who earn their way into power ....with their money. Good going guys.

In other words, ignore the facts.

I think we can draw some inferences about human well being from what is going on in Venezuela.

For example, if people are willing to line up for hours to get something that something probably increases human well being. Toilet paper, for example. Medical supplies.

And, human well being would probably be increased even more if they didn't have to line up for hours to get it.

 

[arkirk]

In other words, ignore the facts.

I think we can draw some inferences about human well being from what is going on in Venezuela.

For example, if people are willing to line up for hours to get something that something probably increases human well being. Toilet paper, for example. Medical supplies.

And, human well being would probably be increased even more if they didn't have to line up for hours to get it.

You guys are imposing a standard on others that does not fit their situation. I realize you don't understand this and was just curious what the pile-on would look like. You guys NEVER LET ME DOWN....unfortunately.