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US Supreme Court Justices grumble

This guy just rolled straight into this thread, and I swear I have the feeling of DejaVu
James Madison
Yeah, but like I recall some guy who actually had a Notre Dame icon or theme or something?

That said they *are* literally dime-a-dozen.
 
is this essentially “partisan hacks” because you dislike or disagree with the opinion?
No, it’s because they are partisan hacks helping Cheato destroy democracy.
Some people want that. Are you one of them?

Thank you kindly for regurgitating the claim. I’m well aware of the claim. I suspect many others having read this thread are well aware of the claim. The natural progression is to substantiate the claim. Repetition of the claim is a broken record.
It takes an act of willful ignorance to look at and deny the reality of the kingmaking going on at the Supreme Court or the lies embodied in that thing.

People have been talking about it up and down the forums. If youhave been lurking, you should be familiar with the recent discussions and articles and what it posted that broadly substantiate the reality that a criminal rapist was just elected to the presidency.

Speaking of familiarity, I think there's a great quote in The Left Hand of Darkness about meeting you. I'm sure in fact that we will meet again some day, but I'll look forward to seeing your name or moniker somewhere amusing soon.

Good day.
 
If they act like partisan hacks, then they deserve to be called partisan hacks.

What do you mean by “partisan hacks”?

What specifically did “they” do that constitutes as “partisan hack”?

Or is this essentially “partisan hacks” because you dislike or disagree with the opinion? The Left and Right are known for deriding opinions of the court as “partisan” because of, ostensibly for some but in fact for others, disapproval of the decision.
The right-wing justices have broken with Precedence like it didn't mean anything. Their ruling on Loper-Bright, reversing Chevron was nothing but a power grab away from the branch that is supposed to Execute the law. Alito did some creative writing exercise and a rather poor look into history when they killed Dobbs, and then leaving it somewhat unresolved, while Thomas was fantasizing about ending Obgerfell and Griswold. In the Trump case, they went well beyond the scope of the actual case and then gave POTUS monarch like power. And finally, CJ Roberts didn't want to hear about issues like "standing" in a case that they (the right-wing) wanted to intervene in.
The right-wing justices have broken with Precedence like it didn't mean anything.
Surely if you’re capitalizing for dramatic emphasis you can use the correct word of “precedent.”
Yeah, I'm functionally illiterate when it comes to speling. But you did get wear eye wuz kumming frumm.

And I'll thank you for a well thought out and expressed reply. Not much of that coming from those supporting this court these days.
Their ruling on Loper-Bright, reversing Chevron was nothing but a power grab away from the branch that is supposed to Execute the law.

You undoubtedly disagree with the opinion. You’re disagreement doesn’t render the decision “nothing but a power grab away from the branch that is supposed to Execute the law.” After all, the case involved the overall question of which entity determines what the laws says, including an ambiguity in the law, and the Court affirms its the judiciary, not the agency within the executive branch. “But the Court did not extend similar deference to agency resolutions of questions of law. It instead made clear, repeatedly, that “[t]he interpretation of the meaning of statutes, as applied to justiciable controversies,” was “exclusively a judicial function.”
Yeah, here is the thing, unlike yourself, I'm not under the illusion that Constitutional Law is remotely objective. We wouldn't need SCOTUS otherwise. The nine Supreme Court justices are obscenely skilled and could successfully argue that a cat was actually a dog in court.

So the question becomes for me (and the nation) is one of functionality and presidence (I'm totally misspelling this every time now!, sometimes even on purpose). If a law or view of law is to change, why must it change. Violating presedense is dangerous because that bridge can only be burned so many times before SCOTUS becomes invalid and useless. There must be a compelling reason to violate it. Chevron wasn't broken. Chevron was working. Federal agencies weren't going out of their way to manage things well outside their scope, such as the EPA meddling with drug standards or the FDA seeing CAFE requirements.

You (or the far right conservative justices) can argue till your blue the justifications why it was obviously legally justified to reverse Chevron, but the liberals can easily pen why it wasn't. And generally, neither of these arguments would be wrong. Again, Constitutional Law is not objective. So what is the need to override a previous decision? Especially in the broader sense of the Chevron decision indicated that the Executive Branch had leniency to execute the law passed by Congress. If the Executive Branch was going too far outside the scope, Congress had the ability the fix that. This makes sense. The Executive Branch is charged with enforcing the law... and when it comes to regulation it is functionally impossible to encode everything. Interpolation and extrapolation will be necessary! It is guaranteed.

But now, with Loper-Bright, regulation needs to be explicit, which isn't remotely reasonable. So SCOTUS took a ruling on executive leniency in regulations that was reasonable and working just fine and broke it, making it harder for Congress to pass laws on regulations and tougher for the Executive Branch to enforce the intent of the Legislative Branch.
Alito did some creative writing exercise and a rather poor look into history when they killed Dobbs

No, this ^^ was the decision of Roe v Wade.
In Roe, the majority relied upon a judicially created doctrine to arrive at a meaning of the Due Process Clause in the 14th Amendment that protects abortion as a privacy right within the concept of Liberty of the DPC, contrary to the long understood meaning of Due Prcoess Clause.
Did they? Like they did with birth control access for married and then unmarried couples via a right to privacy? Or how parents have a right to privacy regarding child rearing? Most of the rights recognized by SCOTUS are fabrications of one kind of another, if not explicitly mentioned in the Bill of Rights. There is no explicit right to privacy. There is the Tenth Amendment, but that is always ignored by conservatives.
Perhaps you’ve heard or read of this judicially created doctrine recognizing the existence of unenumerated rights in the text of the Constitution that where the text does not support such an interpretation. The judicial doctrine, infamously known to many conservatives, whereas lovingly embraced by many liberals and moderates, is Substantive Due Process.

The long historical meaning of the phrase Due Process originates by first appearing in a 1354 English statute (“No man of what state or condition he be, shall be put out of his lands or tenements nor taken, nor disinherited, nor put to death, without he be brought to answer by due process of law”). Sir Edward Coke, commenting upon the phrase Due Process of Law in the “Institutes of the Laws of England” spilled ink to explain the DPC referred to the procedural safeguards for the deprivation of rights and liberties, such the procedural protections for the deprivation of rights and liberties enumerated in the Magna Charta. “No free man shall be taken or imprisoned or deprived of his freehold or his liberties or free customs, or outlawed or exiled, or in any manner destroyed, nor shall we come upon him or send against him, except by a legal judgment of his peers or by the law of the land.” See Magna Charta.

For the sake of brevity, and avoid potentially boring you with several centuries of English judicial, American colonial and early U.S. judicial, development of the meaning of Due Process, the clause referred to procedural protections to deprive rights and liberties. After all the plain text the legal authority to take away life, liberty, and property. “nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” 14th Amendment. The plain text necessarily acknowledges the authority of the State to take away those three rights where due process is followed to do so. Roe and its progeny of recognizing unenumerated rights and elevating them beyond the reach of procedural protections simply doesn’t adhere to the plain text or historical meaning of Due Process.

The Dobbs majority, contrary to your assertion, invoked historical evidence to sufficiently arrive at a historical meaning contrary to Roe.
Did they though? Again, via hyper-technicality, they created an argument. Great. So did the Liberals. Had the Liberals had the majority, that would be law. Having a partisan majority is relevant to legal interpretation, but that doesn't mean the argument is sound (see every decision that has been reversed). In a more meaningful way, looking more broadly, the question is 'is a woman privy to herself?' Where does the line of Government intrusion into her life no longer violate the implied Constitutional right to privacy. You can't get blood from a person without a warrant! Yet, somehow, I'm supposed to rise and provide grand applause to a hyper-technical argument that somehow implies that a woman has no right to treat herself as she deems reasonable? If the state can't take my blood without due cause, how in the hell is logical to say a state can enforce my wife to endure pregnancy and give birth, with all of the consequences involved... without relying on pretzel logic? Having personally given a blood sample and observed my wife's pregnancy and daughter's birth, I can easily conclude which one was more involved.

In judicial review, interpretation of the law must make sense. It is contradictory to suggest invading the privacy of someone to take their blood is more invasive that forcing a woman to endure pregnancy and birth... not without first legally recognizing there is a third party involved, which was not done in Dobbs. It makes no sense! So again, the Roberts court took something that was working and broke it.... and broke it in a manner so brazenly offensive, as not to draw up boundary lines, letting the states try to figure it out for themselves, all the while Thomas was fantasizing about Obergfell and Griswold.
Are you familiar with the Lawrence v Texas decision? This case ignored years of its own precedent, decades of its own precedent, to recognize a privacy interest within the Liberty Clause of the 14th Amendment DPC. See opinion here https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/02-102.ZO.html

The Lawrence decision fits within your parameter of “creative writing exercise and a rather poor look into history” as it overturned a 17 year old precedent of Bowers v Hardwick. Based upon your parameters there’s a reasonable expectation you’ll have similar derision for the disdain for the “breaking of Precedence like it didn’t mean anything.”
Again, this is an issue of you being under the illusion that constitutional law is objective. I care what is right. Adherence to constitutional law is important, but such an adherence can not be an excuse to violate people's rights. Justices O'Conner and Kennedy were conservative as all heck, but they understood the importance of rights.
This isn’t to deny SCOTUS conservatives as “partisan hacks” as I can’t show such a negative. However, these decisions do not demonstrate “partisan hacks” as at least two of those decisions you reference have a reasonably sound foundation within the text and meaning of the law(s). In other words, they reached a meaning/interpretation of the law consistent and in adherence to discovering and discerning what the law says. As opposed to a meaning and interpretation not supported by the plain text and historical understanding and conjured within the mind of a justice and inspired/conceived because of their own personal/political/ideological beliefs.
They are meddling with laws that were working and functional, for partisan reasons, because they (and their benefactors) wanted it that way. SCOTUS's job is to see to unresolvable constitutional questions and issues. This court is just paving the road with the wish list of The Heritage Foundation.

I get that my response is soft on Judicial citations, but as I explained, the subjective nature of Constitutional Law really makes those things less important than the broader application of oversight on Constitutional Law. Again, I thank you for your reply as it was stuffed with content and observations that were worth reading.
 
is this essentially “partisan hacks” because you dislike or disagree with the opinion?
No, it’s because they are partisan hacks helping Cheato destroy democracy.
Some people want that. Are you one of them?

Thank you kindly for regurgitating the claim. I’m well aware of the claim. I suspect many others having read this thread are well aware of the claim. The natural progression is to substantiate the claim. Repetition of the claim is a broken record.
It takes an act of willful ignorance to look at and deny the reality of the kingmaking going on at the Supreme Court or the lies embodied in that thing.



Speaking of familiarity, I think there's a great quote in The Left Hand of Darkness about meeting you. I'm sure in fact that we will meet again some day, but I'll look forward to seeing your name or moniker somewhere amusing soon.

Good day.
It takes an act of willful ignorance to look at and deny the reality of the kingmaking going on at the Supreme Court or the lies embodied in that thing.

I didn’t deny “kingmaking” as “kingmaking” was not the topic I addressed.

People have been talking about it up and down the forums. If youhave been lurking, you should be familiar with the recent discussions and articles and what it posted that broadly substantiate the reality that a criminal rapist was just elected to the presidency.

Yes a convicted felon was elected president, a travesty, but I have a clear conscience as I didn’t vote for the presidency in 2024 or 2020 but did bast a ballot for other races.

However, I do digress, the “it” I addressed isn’t the same “it” you are raising for discussion.
 
is this essentially “partisan hacks” because you dislike or disagree with the opinion?
No, it’s because they are partisan hacks helping Cheato destroy democracy.
Some people want that. Are you one of them?

Thank you kindly for regurgitating the claim. I’m well aware of the claim. I suspect many others having read this thread are well aware of the claim. The natural progression is to substantiate the claim. Repetition of the claim is a broken record.
Sorry pal. I have no cure for your willful blindness. I am sure some here have the patience to wade through pages of mind numbing faux legalese. Most, however, recognize it for what it is. A re-run.
 
is this essentially “partisan hacks” because you dislike or disagree with the opinion?
No, it’s because they are partisan hacks helping Cheato destroy democracy.
Some people want that. Are you one of them?

Thank you kindly for regurgitating the claim. I’m well aware of the claim. I suspect many others having read this thread are well aware of the claim. The natural progression is to substantiate the claim. Repetition of the claim is a broken record.
I live on the otherside of the planet and I can break down into crayons for you. The people who wrote the US Constitution very much did not believe in the divine right of Kings. The current S(r)COTUS with their ruling giving Presidents immunity flies in the face of that and is antithetical to democracy. That you are hiding behind passive aggressive semantic word games makes me almost certain that you realise that - but because it is your tribe doing it, you support it.

Let me guess, you're going to respond with "When did I say that?" or some other 14 year old edgelord bullshit, right?
I live on the otherside of the planet and I can break down into crayons for you.

A location lacking crayons because your reply neither “break down” anything for me and certainly not “into crayons for you.”

You’ve not responded substantively to my post, and your commentary pertaining to my remark of the immunity case doesn’t refute what I did present substantively regarding the immunity case. What you stated regarding the immunity case is not contradictory to nor inconsistent with what I did state.

The only teenage angst post is your own, with the oh so persuasive use of expletives and ad hominems.

Could have spared yourself whatever amount of time by just attacking me personally with much less words but keep the expletives.
The only cogent and relevant part of your response is the highly ironic last sentence.
 
is this essentially “partisan hacks” because you dislike or disagree with the opinion?
No, it’s because they are partisan hacks helping Cheato destroy democracy.
Some people want that. Are you one of them?

Thank you kindly for regurgitating the claim. I’m well aware of the claim. I suspect many others having read this thread are well aware of the claim. The natural progression is to substantiate the claim. Repetition of the claim is a broken record.
The Trump case effectively hamstrung the ability to hold a President accountable for their actions. It wasn't as much that they said the President is a monarch, but rather said 'you can't investigate the President for actions within their core powers', which, when looking at it soberly, results in exactly the same end. SCOTUS effectively made investigating the President a cart before the horse problem... or a Laurel and Hardy sketch... or to reduce to it to the lowest common denominator the lawyers said there is a hole in their bucket and SCOTUS gave them a rather useless circular way to mend it.

"Core constitutional powers" is nebulous at best. It'd take forever just to litigate whether the action is considered outside core power to even start an investigation. Of which you need an investigation to establish the action that occurred. Cart/Horse, hole in bucket. And that is just the first problem.

This was another one of those ridiculous solutions to a problem that wasn't real. The conservative justices when speaking to the lawyers were concerned about how prosecutors could abuse their power in investigating the President, which would paralyze the President from being able to act. But as we learned with Clinton and Trump, there is not a single crime that a President can be charged with that wouldn't get to SCOTUS first! IE, the conservative justices are whining about how there wouldn't be a firewall... when SCOTUS themselves were the firewall the whole time! Yes, I was yelling that in real time to the car radio while listening to the oral arguments. The case went to the court to judge whether Trump's actions were privileged, and the conservative justices refused to touch that question with a 40-foot long pole (or one half Trump nose length), and then spit out this ruling which provides POTUS ridiculous amounts of unchecked authority.
 
Much of the dismay in the Trump ruling might have been mitigated if the SCOTUS had added something akin to “But no core Presidential constitutional powers are present in this case.” At least that would have given a hint to the limits of immunity.
 
At least that would have given a hint to the limits of immunity.
Obviously, limits to Trump's immunity were no part of the purchased Justices' intent.
I'd say more Hand-selected, except Kavanaugh. There was some questionable financials for him. And yes, Thomas is only in his seat due to his payoffs. I imagine he'll be replaced with Aileen Cannon this term. Because... why not? I doubt Alito wants to go yet.
 
Yes a convicted felon was elected president, a travesty, but I have a clear conscience as I didn’t vote for the presidency in 2024 or 2020 but did bast a ballot for other races.
To paraphrase: "Yes, a defenceless person was assualted right in front of me, but I have a clear conscience, because I did nothing to help the perpetrator OR the victim".

That's a mighty strange concept of "conscience" you are using there.

Not getting involved is not a virtue in cases with a clear moral divide.

"Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject." - John Stuart Mill.
 
is this essentially “partisan hacks” because you dislike or disagree with the opinion?
No, it’s because they are partisan hacks helping Cheato destroy democracy.
Some people want that. Are you one of them?

Thank you kindly for regurgitating the claim. I’m well aware of the claim. I suspect many others having read this thread are well aware of the claim. The natural progression is to substantiate the claim. Repetition of the claim is a broken record.
Sorry pal. I have no cure for your willful blindness. I am sure some here have the patience to wade through pages of mind numbing faux legalese. Most, however, recognize it for what it is. A re-run.

I am sure some here have the patience to wade through pages of mind numbing faux legalese.

Inferring you lacked the patience to “wade through pages” of my post, and also suggesting you didn’t, which means you lack the requisite knowledge of the content of my post to opine my post constitutes as “mind numbing faux legalese.”

Sorry pal. I have no cure for your willful blindness.

Ostensibly, neither for your intentionally conspicuous pretense that you’ve read what I posted, yet you ironically alleged I have “willful blindness.” Pot meet kettle.

Ultimately you have already made up your mind, thereby obviating any desire or need for you to respond to the substance of my posts and much less read them. Given that, the comment “your willful blindness” is amusing.
 
Yes a convicted felon was elected president, a travesty, but I have a clear conscience as I didn’t vote for the presidency in 2024 or 2020 but did bast a ballot for other races.
To paraphrase: "Yes, a defenceless person was assualted right in front of me, but I have a clear conscience, because I did nothing to help the perpetrator OR the victim".

That's a mighty strange concept of "conscience" you are using there.

Not getting involved is not a virtue in cases with a clear moral divide.

"Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject." - John Stuart Mill.

Except I reject your notion the 2020 and 2024 presidential elections presented to me and for me a “clear moral divide.” Maybe for you personally those two elections manifested as a “clear moral divide.”

To paraphrase: "Yes, a defenceless person was assualted right in front of me, but I have a clear conscience, because I did nothing to help the perpetrator OR the victim".

That's a mighty strange concept of "conscience" you are using there.

“That’s a mighty strange concept of” paraphrase.
 
Dissension at the Supreme Court as justices take their anger public - CNNPolitics
Supreme Court justices have revealed a new level of defensiveness and anger in recent weeks, showing irritation with public expectations, the news media and one another.

The extraordinary public display extends beyond any single justice or case, although the majority's decision to let a Texas near-ban on abortions take effect has plainly triggered much of the consternation.
What did they expect?
On Thursday, Samuel Alito became the fifth of the nine justices to speak out, denouncing critics he said were seeking to portray the court as "sneaky" and "sinister" in an attempt "to intimidate" the justices.

Alito told a Notre Dame Law School audience that the court has been wrongly cast as "a dangerous cabal ... deciding important issues in a novel, secretive, improper way, in the middle of the night."
Then Amy Coney Barrett's speech at the McConnell Center of the University of Louisville in Kentucky. Mitch McConnell himself introduced her, at that place that was named after him. He had successfully obstructed Barack Obama's nomination of Merrick Garland for the Supreme Court, something that he once chuckled over. He also got ACB in the court shortly before the Nov-2020 election.
"My goal today is to convince you that the court is not comprised of a bunch of partisan hacks," Barrett told the audience. "The media, along with hot takes on Twitter, report the results of decisions," she said, according to local media reports at a speech where no audio or video recordings were allowed. "It leaves the reader to judge whether the court was right or wrong based on whether she liked the results of the decision."
If they act like partisan hacks, then they deserve to be called partisan hacks.

Justice Clarence Thomas at the Notre Dame Law School last month:
"I think the media makes it sound as though you are just always going right to your personal preferences," Thomas said. "If they think you're anti-abortion or something personally, they think that's the way you'll always come out."
Self-pity.

Justice Stephen Breyer is promoting a new book, and he also spoke out.
The senior liberal has urged audiences not to take such confidence for granted. He also had urged people not to see the justices as "junior-varsity politicians."

Breyer, too, has criticized journalists and politicians for identifying justices by the presidents who appointed them and their political parties. The Bill Clinton appointee also argues that the current 6-3 split at the high court does not reflect politics or ideology but rather jurisprudential methods.
Is that serious? The conservative Justices were appointed by Republican Presidents and the liberal ones by Democratic ones.
Decisions in closely watched cases often follow the familiar lines. In the 2020-21 term, the six conservative justices (over liberal dissent) narrowed the reach of the 1965 Voting Rights Act and ruled against union organizers on agricultural land. The recent disputes regarding abortion, the eviction moratorium and asylum policy also split the justices largely by ideological and political affiliation.
If they act like partisan hacks, then they deserve to be called partisan hacks.

What do you mean by “partisan hacks”?

What specifically did “they” do that constitutes as “partisan hack”?

Or is this essentially “partisan hacks” because you dislike or disagree with the opinion? The Left and Right are known for deriding opinions of the court as “partisan” because of, ostensibly for some but in fact for others, disapproval of the decision.
It's because they interpret the Constitution in ways that are utterly inconsistent with past rulings and these new rulings are all favorable to the right, e.g the notion that a POTUS can't be held responsible for any decision ("official act") he makes while in office is outrageous beyond description.

Rights have already been taken away (see the reversal of Roe) and it's reasonable to expect same sex marriage to be next. Both are challenged by the religious right, not due to anything in the Constitution, but as religious moral values, which the First Amendment is very clear on.

Since the birth of this nation, one of the measures of progress have been the consistent strengthening of rights. It hasn't always been as timely as it should've been, but eventually we got there.

What this SCOTUS is doing is diminishing rights and ignoring both the 1st and 14th Amendments. There have also been numerous 4th Amendment degradations, but I've run my mouth enough already.
 
Except I reject your notion the 2020 and 2024 presidential elections presented to me and for me a “clear moral divide.”
Then you are either blind, psychopathic, or stupid.

Now, interestingly enough I could be all three, blind, psychopathic, stupid, and you remain wrong!

Perhaps, whatever you believe as moral/immoral, isn’t! Are you a absolutist? Subjectivist? Relativist? Utilitarianist? Normativist?

Or maybe I’m the smart one as for me neither candidate was morally palatable. Or maybe I am the smart one for not perceiving this as involving morality.

I appreciate you treat your view of “clear moral divide” as so ineluctable to be the equivalent of denying 2+2=4, equivalent of denying gravity causes objects to fall back to earth at 9.8 meters per second squared. I understand you perceive your claim and beliefs as immutable, laws of nature. They’re aren’t.
 
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