Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Arctish]

Looks like Israel and Hamas are close to an agreement.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Non sequiturs and antisemitic irrelevant nonsense. Are you going to quote The Protocols of the Elders of Zion next?

Damn, Dr Z. It appears you've crossed over to the completely irrational.

He did post irrelevant nonsense. ... We all have the necessary information with which to make judgements. I don’t think ignorance is his problem

Dude! The person you were arguing with isn't a dude! Why do so many people keep mis-sexing her?

Because this is the Internet and we communicate only by text?

Our culture defaults to male pronouns. Its a norm. I'm not saying it's good. And is an issue feminists have been talking about since the 70'ies. They have a point.

The same old bull... antisemites have been rehashing throughout this entire conflict. I just called it out.

Jews are allowed to defend themselves. Its just a shame so many are wedded to the idea that Jews have to be the world's perpetual victims.

People have many reasons for holding anti-Israeli double standards; it's not usually because Israelis are Jewish. Do you have any evidence that she wouldn't be making exactly the same arguments if ninety years ago Palestine had been colonized by Swedish Protestants instead of by Russian Jews?

Racists rarely think they are racists. Most racists are convinced like they're just seeing the world objectively. They will zero in on details not ethnically specific and bring those into focus. But there is a pattern.

When it comes to Israel the racism is so extreme. This latest war has made it very clear.

Granted that USA's support for Israel has made hatred against USA to be mixed with hatred for Jews. And it can be hard to tease our which is which. Its still an irrational hatred.

I'm convinced westerners hatred for Israel is based on antisemitism. While Arabs and Persian hatred for Israel is not antisemitism. They conflate Israel with western colonialism. They see Jews as western colonial settlers living on stolen land. It’s as stupid as antisemitism. Nationalistic simplistic nonsense. But it's not antisemitism.

BTW, Sweden used to be a European super power. Swedish museums is full of stuff we stole from other European nations. We did occupy land around Europe setting up Swedish enclaves and setting up Swedes as colonial overlords. So we don't need to use our imagination. We know how that would på out.

If it was Swedes instead of Jews she would probably be saying the same thing. The difference being that she would have been correct in her assessment.

 

[Arctish]

Looks like Israel and Hamas are close to an agreement.

Update:

Smotrich and Ben-Gvir have threatened to quit and collapse the governing coalition if Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu agrees to a Gaza ceasefire proposal:

Mr Netanyahu's right-wing coalition holds a slim majority in parliament, relying on a host of factions, including Mr Ben-Gvir's Otzma Yehudit (Jewish Power) party - who hold six seats - and Mr Smotrich's Religious Zionism party - who hold seven seats - to maintain power.

But Yair Lapid, one of Israel's most influential opposition politicians, was quick to offer his backing to the embattled prime minister. His Yesh Atid (There is a future) party holds 24 seats.

He said the prime minister "has our safety net for a hostage deal if Ben-Gvir and Smotrich leave the government".

The row came as tens of thousands of people rallied in Tel Aviv, calling on the Israeli government to accept Mr Biden's proposed plan.

Figures those two would be opposed to a peace deal. And a lot of people aren't happy with either of them.

The brother of one of the hostages told Smotrich to his face that he was "sacrificing" and "executing" his brother by opposing the ceasefire proposal.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Looks like Israel and Hamas are close to an agreement.

Update:

Smotrich and Ben-Gvir have threatened to quit and collapse the governing coalition if Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu agrees to a Gaza ceasefire proposal:

Mr Netanyahu's right-wing coalition holds a slim majority in parliament, relying on a host of factions, including Mr Ben-Gvir's Otzma Yehudit (Jewish Power) party - who hold six seats - and Mr Smotrich's Religious Zionism party - who hold seven seats - to maintain power.

But Yair Lapid, one of Israel's most influential opposition politicians, was quick to offer his backing to the embattled prime minister. His Yesh Atid (There is a future) party holds 24 seats.

He said the prime minister "has our safety net for a hostage deal if Ben-Gvir and Smotrich leave the government".

The row came as tens of thousands of people rallied in Tel Aviv, calling on the Israeli government to accept Mr Biden's proposed plan.

Figures those two would be opposed to a peace deal. And a lot of people aren't happy with either of them.

The brother of one of the hostages told Smotrich to his face that he was "sacrificing" and "executing" his brother by opposing the ceasefire proposal.

But they aren't.

Unless you give me a million dollars I will kill this kitten. Who's responsible for the kittens death. You or me?






I hope the negotions succeed, and we can see an end to the carnage

 

[TomC]

Looks like Israel and Hamas are close to an agreement.

Update:

Smotrich and Ben-Gvir have threatened to quit and collapse the governing coalition if Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu agrees to a Gaza ceasefire proposal:

Mr Netanyahu's right-wing coalition holds a slim majority in parliament, relying on a host of factions, including Mr Ben-Gvir's Otzma Yehudit (Jewish Power) party - who hold six seats - and Mr Smotrich's Religious Zionism party - who hold seven seats - to maintain power.

But Yair Lapid, one of Israel's most influential opposition politicians, was quick to offer his backing to the embattled prime minister. His Yesh Atid (There is a future) party holds 24 seats.

He said the prime minister "has our safety net for a hostage deal if Ben-Gvir and Smotrich leave the government".

The row came as tens of thousands of people rallied in Tel Aviv, calling on the Israeli government to accept Mr Biden's proposed plan.

Figures those two would be opposed to a peace deal. And a lot of people aren't happy with either of them.

The brother of one of the hostages told Smotrich to his face that he was "sacrificing" and "executing" his brother by opposing the ceasefire proposal.

I can't help but point out some things missing from those articles.

One is the motivations of the opponents of the plan. Another is any mention of the violent Gazans who are the ones who actually kidnapped the guy's brother. Including some of the violent Gazan terrorists who got released by Israel earlier.
Tom

 

[Arctish]

Looks like Israel and Hamas are close to an agreement.

Update:

Smotrich and Ben-Gvir have threatened to quit and collapse the governing coalition if Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu agrees to a Gaza ceasefire proposal:

Mr Netanyahu's right-wing coalition holds a slim majority in parliament, relying on a host of factions, including Mr Ben-Gvir's Otzma Yehudit (Jewish Power) party - who hold six seats - and Mr Smotrich's Religious Zionism party - who hold seven seats - to maintain power.

But Yair Lapid, one of Israel's most influential opposition politicians, was quick to offer his backing to the embattled prime minister. His Yesh Atid (There is a future) party holds 24 seats.

He said the prime minister "has our safety net for a hostage deal if Ben-Gvir and Smotrich leave the government".

The row came as tens of thousands of people rallied in Tel Aviv, calling on the Israeli government to accept Mr Biden's proposed plan.

Figures those two would be opposed to a peace deal. And a lot of people aren't happy with either of them.

The brother of one of the hostages told Smotrich to his face that he was "sacrificing" and "executing" his brother by opposing the ceasefire proposal.

I can't help but point out some things missing from those articles.

One is the motivations of the opponents of the plan. Another is any mention of the violent Gazans who are the ones who actually kidnapped the guy's brother. Including some of the violent Gazan terrorists who got released by Israel earlier.
Tom

You can look up Smotrich and Ben-Gvir to learn about their past actions and current statements if you really want to know. I've linked to enough articles about those two men in this thread already.

And do you really need to be reminded that Hamas terrorists kidnapped that guy's brother along with hundreds of others? Do you think readers of The Times of Israel might not be able to figure it out if the reporters don't remind them every single time they write something about the hostages, or the war, or why people are so upset?

 

[TomC]

You can look up Smotrich and Ben-Gvir to learn about their past actions and current statements if you really want to know. I've linked to enough articles about those two men in this thread already.

I have enough trouble trying to sort the dumbass political people running my own country. Trying to understand people in the position of the Israeli government, trying to protect their people from the violent Muslim neighbors, is beyond me. Especially given how much of the coverage is slanted and spun nowadays.

And do you really need to be reminded that Hamas terrorists kidnapped that guy's brother along with hundreds of others? Do you think readers of The Times of Israel might not be able to figure it out if the reporters don't remind them every single time they write something about the hostages, or the war, or why people are so upset?

Yeah I absolutely do think that, when the Israeli government is being blamed for the outcome of Gazan terrorists violence.

I'm not surprised that a guy in his position is not particularly rational. But this happens a lot. People blaming Israel for the outcome of Gazan choices, while ignoring the fact that Israel is trying to protect themselves from the Muslims who have been attacking them since the day it was formed is terrorist apologetics. The current flavor of the terrorism is Hamas lead Gazan's violence.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

You can look up Smotrich and Ben-Gvir to learn about their past actions and current statements if you really want to know. I've linked to enough articles about those two men in this thread already.

I have enough trouble trying to sort the dumbass political people running my own country. Trying to understand people in the position of the Israeli government, trying to protect their people from the violent Muslim neighbors, is beyond me. Especially given how much of the coverage is slanted and spun nowadays.

You realize that a reader could reasonably take that as an admission you have no clue about what is going on.

 

[DrZoidberg]

 

[TomC]

You can look up Smotrich and Ben-Gvir to learn about their past actions and current statements if you really want to know. I've linked to enough articles about those two men in this thread already.

I have enough trouble trying to sort the dumbass political people running my own country. Trying to understand people in the position of the Israeli government, trying to protect their people from the violent Muslim neighbors, is beyond me. Especially given how much of the coverage is slanted and spun nowadays.

You realize that a reader could reasonably take that as an admission you have no clue about what is going on.

Especially people who don't think that the rest of post is worth responding to.

Sorry, but the consistently vitriolic criticism of Israel, with little mention of why the disaster is occuring and only talk of a post-Hamas Gaza, makes reasonable readers think that you are the one that is clueless.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

You can look up Smotrich and Ben-Gvir to learn about their past actions and current statements if you really want to know. I've linked to enough articles about those two men in this thread already.

I have enough trouble trying to sort the dumbass political people running my own country. Trying to understand people in the position of the Israeli government, trying to protect their people from the violent Muslim neighbors, is beyond me. Especially given how much of the coverage is slanted and spun nowadays.

You realize that a reader could reasonably take that as an admission you have no clue about what is going on.

Especially people who don't think that the rest of post is worth responding to.

You admitted you cannot be bothered to understand what is going on which suggests your views are not based on sufficient information.

And that ignores you have endorsed the possible ethnic cleansing of Gazans,

 

[TomC]

You admitted you cannot be bothered to understand what is going on which suggests your views are not based on sufficient information.

And the fact that I said no such thing is solid evidence that you don't know what is going on. You just like to post stuff that comports with your ideology.

I've read a great many of your posts. You've demonstrated that you are an anti-Jewish apologist for Muslim extremists. Well enough for me to understand.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

You admitted you cannot be bothered to understand what is going on which suggests your views are not based on sufficient information.

And the fact that I said no such thing is solid evidence that you don't know what is going on. You just like to post stuff that comports with your ideology.

In post 6470 you most certainly did with "Trying to understand people in the position of the Israeli government, trying to protect their people from the violent Muslim neighbors, is beyond me.". For reference that is 3 posts prior to this one that was about 4 hours prior to your denial.

I've read a great many of your posts. You've demonstrated that you are an anti-Jewish apologist for Muslim extremists. Well enough for me to understand.
Tom

Then you should have no trouble providing a quote to support your claim that I am an anti-Jewish apologist for Muslim extremists.

 

[Derec]

Looks like Israel and Hamas are close to an agreement.

It looks like a rotten deal.
Gaza ceasefire-hostage deal on brink of finalization, as reports spell out details
In the first phase, only 33 hostages would be released by Hamas, but at the price of ~1,000 Palestinian terrorists, including those serving life sentences.

It said that among the first phase’s 33 hostages would be five female IDF soldiers, each of whom would be released in exchange for 50 Palestinian security prisoners, including 30 convicted terrorists who are serving life sentences.

That is 150 terrorists serving life sentences. Way too steep a price.

Israel would also have to withdraw from most of Gaza, including the Netzarim Corridor which is important strategically.

And that is only the first phase of the deal. To release the remaining hostages, how many thousands of terrorists will Hamas demand be freed?

No, I do not think Israel should acquiesce to this. Hamas needs to be pounded some more, until they cry uncle. Maybe when a few thousands more fighters as well as some more senior commanders are killed, including Mohammed Sinwar (Yaya's brother), the ones who survive will come to their senses and reduce demands.

 

[Arctish]

Looks like Israel and Hamas are close to an agreement.

It looks like a rotten deal.
Gaza ceasefire-hostage deal on brink of finalization, as reports spell out details
In the first phase, only 33 hostages would be released by Hamas, but at the price of ~1,000 Palestinian terrorists, including those serving life sentences.

It said that among the first phase’s 33 hostages would be five female IDF soldiers, each of whom would be released in exchange for 50 Palestinian security prisoners, including 30 convicted terrorists who are serving life sentences.

That is 150 terrorists serving life sentences. Way too steep a price.

The linked article says none of the terrorists who participated in the October 7 attack will be released and that none of the "murder" terrorists, aka the ones convicted of direct participation in violent crimes, will be released to the West Bank, although some appear to be headed to either Gaza or exile. The other prisoners slated to be released include some serving sentences of 15 years or more and a shit ton of people who were never charged with a crime, much less convicted of one.

Israel would also have to withdraw from most of Gaza, including the Netzarim Corridor which is important strategically.

And that is only the first phase of the deal. To release the remaining hostages, how many thousands of terrorists will Hamas demand be freed?

No, I do not think Israel should acquiesce to this. Hamas needs to be pounded some more, until they cry uncle. Maybe when a few thousands more fighters as well as some more senior commanders are killed, including Mohammed Sinwar (Yaya's brother), the ones who survive will come to their senses and reduce demands.

Given your posting history, I do not expect you to approve of any peace deal that leaves adult Gazans still alive and having any say in Gaza's future.

 

[DrZoidberg]

You can look up Smotrich and Ben-Gvir to learn about their past actions and current statements if you really want to know. I've linked to enough articles about those two men in this thread already.

I have enough trouble trying to sort the dumbass political people running my own country. Trying to understand people in the position of the Israeli government, trying to protect their people from the violent Muslim neighbors, is beyond me. Especially given how much of the coverage is slanted and spun nowadays.

You realize that a reader could reasonably take that as an admission you have no clue about what is going on.

Especially people who don't think that the rest of post is worth responding to.

You admitted you cannot be bothered to understand what is going on which suggests your views are not based on sufficient information.

And that ignores you have endorsed the possible ethnic cleansing of Gazans,

There's no ethnic cleansing of Gazans. That's an absurd claim. Just stop that nonsense

 

[DrZoidberg]

Looks like Israel and Hamas are close to an agreement.

It looks like a rotten deal.
Gaza ceasefire-hostage deal on brink of finalization, as reports spell out details
In the first phase, only 33 hostages would be released by Hamas, but at the price of ~1,000 Palestinian terrorists, including those serving life sentences.

It said that among the first phase’s 33 hostages would be five female IDF soldiers, each of whom would be released in exchange for 50 Palestinian security prisoners, including 30 convicted terrorists who are serving life sentences.

That is 150 terrorists serving life sentences. Way too steep a price.

The linked article says none of the terrorists who participated in the October 7 attack will be released and that none of the "murder" terrorists, aka the ones convicted of direct participation in violent crimes, will be released to the West Bank, although some appear to be headed to either Gaza or exile. The other prisoners slated to be released include some serving sentences of 15 years or more and a shit ton of people who were never charged with a crime, much less convicted of one.

Finally you accuse Israel of something bad that is true.

I agree. This is an Israeli abuse of power which they should stop.

 

[laughing dog]

You can look up Smotrich and Ben-Gvir to learn about their past actions and current statements if you really want to know. I've linked to enough articles about those two men in this thread already.

I have enough trouble trying to sort the dumbass political people running my own country. Trying to understand people in the position of the Israeli government, trying to protect their people from the violent Muslim neighbors, is beyond me. Especially given how much of the coverage is slanted and spun nowadays.

You realize that a reader could reasonably take that as an admission you have no clue about what is going on.

Especially people who don't think that the rest of post is worth responding to.

You admitted you cannot be bothered to understand what is going on which suggests your views are not based on sufficient information.

And that ignores you have endorsed the possible ethnic cleansing of Gazans,

There's no ethnic cleansing of Gazans. That's an absurd claim. Just stop that nonsense.

No one made that claim, so stop your nonsense.

 

[Derec]

The linked article says none of the terrorists who participated in the October 7 attack will be released

Yes, but plenty of other terrorists from earlier attacks will be.

and that none of the "murder" terrorists, aka the ones convicted of direct participation in violent crimes, will be released to the West Bank, although some appear to be headed to either Gaza or exile.

Releasing terrorists to Gaza worked out great in the aftermath of the Shalit deal.
Note: Yahya Sinwar was one of the terrorists released to Gaza then.
Moreover, the disastrous Shalit deal inspired hostage taking on 10/7. This deal will inspire more attempts to take hostages.

The other prisoners slated to be released include some serving sentences of 15 years or more

So? Murderous terrorists should not get out after mere 15 years.

and a shit ton of people who were never charged with a crime, much less convicted of one.

The article does not talk about any inmates awaiting trial or being held under administrative detention. Maybe some of the released terrorists will be from among those, maybe not.
Btw, administrative detention still needs to be authorized by a judge. It's not a free-for-all.

Given your posting history, I do not expect you to approve of any peace deal that leaves adult Gazans still alive and having any say in Gaza's future.

Bullshit cubed!
I do not approve of a deal releasing a thousand terrorists in the first phase alone.
I do not approve of a deal that keeps Hamas in power (Hamas and Islamic Jihad definitely should not "have any say in Gaza's future").
I do not approve of a deal that, already in the first phase, forces IDF to abandon the strategically important Netzarim Corridor.

Another thing from the article:

In a third phase, the bodies of remaining hostages would be returned in exchange for a three- to five-year reconstruction plan to be carried out in Gaza under international supervision.

How is Gaza supposed to be rebuilt if Hamas is left in charge? They will redirect most investment and construction materials toward their ends, such as rebuilding their tunnel network. And to the extent that any civilian rebuilding is actually accomplished, Hamas has already indicated they intend to repeat 10/7 over and over again. Which means there will be war again, and thus any reconstruction is futile unless and until there is a real regime change in Gaza.

Also, 3-5 year reconstruction plan? Isn't that wildly optimistic? It will take most of that timeframe just to remove all the rubble.

 

[Arctish]

After 15 months of war, Israel and Hamas agree to a ceasefire-hostage release deal

The complex accord, which has not yet been formally announced, outlines a six-week initial ceasefire phase and includes the gradual withdrawal of Israeli forces from the Gaza Strip and the release of hostages taken by Hamas in exchange for Palestinian prisoners held by Israel.

Once the deal’s implementation begins, Hamas will gradually release 33 Israeli hostages over the first 42 days of the ceasefire, according to multiple outlets.

The rest of the hostages, numbering 65, will only be freed if the sides can agree on a second phase for the truce, negotiations for which will begin some two weeks into the halt in fighting.