Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[Derec]

A barrage of 100s of rockets, including longer range ones reaching as far as Tel Aviv. Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib and the rest of the Squad must be rejoicing.

IDF's response to this must he swift and heavy. Including going after Hamas and Islamic Jihad brass. And the Biden administration should not push Israel into a premature ceisefire.

Hamas and other terrorists must be taught a lesson. As must their masters in Tehran.

 

[Rhea]

Shit. Not good.

Not much news at all about this yet. Must be still in progress. CNN and USAToday came up in my search, no one else. They said it was early enough that most Israelis would still be asleeep.

 

[Arctish]

"Unprovoked"?

The IDF and Hamas have been exchanging fire for weeks. The situation has been worsening since the economic crisis in Gaza sharply intensified in early September. Salaries were cut, the only way for Gazan goods to reach markets outside of Gaza was closed, people protesting their confinement began rioting and the soldiers confining them began shooting, etc., etc.

This is an ongoing conflict. Pretending everything was fine up until this morning is absurd.

 

[Derec]

And we have our first Hamas apologist.

"Unprovoked"?

Yes.

The IDF and Hamas have been exchanging fire for weeks.

You will note that these have been provocations by Hamas/Gaza, not the other way around. Israel, as always, was merely responding, and way too mildly I might add. The border fence rioters even attempted to place bombs. One of the bomber teams hoist themselves up on their own petard.
6 killed in Gaza border blast during rioting, apparently while planting bomb

The situation has been worsening since the economic crisis in Gaza sharply intensified in early September.

And who is responsible for that, if not the governing Hamas?
Gaza could have had peace and prosperity in 2005 when Israel left. Instead they chose war and terrorism.

This is an ongoing conflict. Pretending everything was fine up until this morning is absurd.

It is an ongoing conflict, kept going by Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the other genocidal Palestinian terrorist groups you like to defend on here.

Note also that this unprovoked attack has come just as the Nobel committee announced the Nobel Peace Prize going to an imprisoned Iranian activist. Since this attack almost certainly came under orders from IRGC, I do not think it's just a coincidence.

 

[Bronzeage]

There is no such thing as an "unprovoked" attack between Israel and Palestine. It's like saying, "He hit me back first."

 

[Arctish]

And we have our first Hamas apologist.

And we have our first Ad Hominem.

Pointing out the ridiculousness of your use of the word "unprovoked" when describing the latest act of violence in a situation where people have been engaged in a bloody conflict for years, is not a defense of Hamas. It's a defense of the English language.

"Unprovoked"?

Yes.

The IDF and Hamas have been exchanging fire for weeks.

You will note that these have been provocations by Hamas/Gaza, not the other way around. Israel, as always, was merely responding, and way too mildly I might add. The border fence rioters even attempted to place bombs. One of the bomber teams hoist themselves up on their own petard.
6 killed in Gaza border blast during rioting, apparently while planting bomb

The situation has been worsening since the economic crisis in Gaza sharply intensified in early September.

And who is responsible for that, if not the governing Hamas?
Gaza could have had peace and prosperity in 2005 when Israel left. Instead they chose war and terrorism.

This is an ongoing conflict. Pretending everything was fine up until this morning is absurd.

It is an ongoing conflict,

So you are aware that the conflict has been heating up once again. But you don't think the latest attack is connected to the airstrikes in May, or the incendiary kite attacks in June, or the airstrikes on Jenin in July, or the economic sanctions, or the reaction to the reaction to the historical reactions to reactions in Israel and Palestine since the fall of the Ottoman Empire? It just happened, unprovoked, out of the blue?

kept going by Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the other genocidal Palestinian terrorist groups you like to defend on here.

Note also that this unprovoked attack has come just as the Nobel committee announced the Nobel Peace Prize going to an imprisoned Iranian activist. Since this attack almost certainly came under orders from IRGC, I do not think it's just a coincidence.

I note that you would have to ignore everything that happened between the Israelis and Palestinians throughout all of 2023 to believe that.

 

[bilby]

Meh. Violence between Israel and Palestine is as unremarkable as was violence between Great Britain and the IRA during my youth.

Mo Mowlam has been dead for eighteen years. We need another of her calibre; But they're sadly very rare.

Meanwhile, both sides will continue to make "unprovoked" attacks on the other. And the dominant side will continue to deride their opponents as terrorists, while ignoring the fact that they themselves are acting like total arseholes.

Treating people as subhumans, and then acting all shocked at their barbarism when they hit back, is fucking pathetic.

 

[Derec]

And we have our first Ad Hominem.

Simple statement of fact. You are an apologist for Hamas and other Palestinian terrorists.

Pointing out the ridiculousness of your use of the word "unprovoked" when describing the latest act of violence in a situation where people have been engaged in a bloody conflict for years, is not a defense of Hamas. It's a defense of the English language.

Bullshit. Over and over, ever since 1948 Arabs/Palestinians have been attacking Israel, and Israel has been defending herself.
There is no equivalence here. It's not a tit for tat. It's one side who wants to destroy Israel, and the other side who are fighting for their survival.

So you are aware that the conflict has been heating up once again.

Because of Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and ultimately their master, Iran. Israel has been responding to aggressions and provocations by Palestinians in a very measured way. Way too measured, as it now tragically turned out. IDF should have mowed the lawn again years ago.

But you don't think the latest attack is connected to the airstrikes in May,

Air strikes against terrorists. No different than air strikes US has been conducting against Al Qaeda or ISIS.

or the incendiary kite attacks in June,

It is Palestinians who have been attacking Israel with incendiary kites and balloons. This is ecological terrorism that I have not seen any self-described environmentalists condemn.

or the airstrikes on Jenin in July,

What airstrikes in Jenin? I know of operations in Jenin to arrest particular terrorists that have been attacking Israelis. Jenin is a den of terrorists.

It just happened, unprovoked, out of the blue?

This level of escalation, for sure. It is beyond anything we have seen since 1973. Palestinians have not only shot 5000 rockets at Israeli cities, they have invaded Israeli territory and taken Israeli civilians hostage.
Israeli response must be at least as forceful. Gaza must be bombed into the stone age and then reoccupied. Hamas and Islamic Jihad must be rooted out. And US needs to help, rather than push for a premature ceasefire as usual.

I note that you would have to ignore everything that happened between the Israelis and Palestinians throughout all of 2023 to believe that.

It is very clear that Hamas and Islamic Jihad are organs of the IRGC.

 

[Derec]

Meh. Violence between Israel and Palestine is as unremarkable as was violence between Great Britain and the IRA during my youth.

This level of escalation on part of Hamas is unprecedented for many decades. And in general, IRA is bad, but Palestinian terrorists are orders of magnitude worse.

Mo Mowlam has been dead for eighteen years. We need another of her calibre; But they're sadly very rare.

Who is she?

Meanwhile, both sides will continue to make "unprovoked" attacks on the other. And the dominant side will continue to deride their opponents as terrorists, while ignoring the fact that they themselves are acting like total arseholes.

This is a false equivalence. There is no comparison between a country defending itself from naked aggression and genocidal terrorist groups hellbent on eradicating Israel.

Treating people as subhumans, and then acting all shocked at their barbarism when they hit back, is fucking pathetic.

That is what Hamas is doing. They treat Israelis as subhuman and keep attacking Israeli civilians for decades. Hopefully Israel will hit them back with great deal of force, more than any of recent operations. What needs to come now needs to make Protective Edge and Cast Lead put together like a picnic. Gaza also needs to be reoccupied. Disengagement has been proven as a failure, as it allowed the infection of Hamas and Islamic Jihad to take hold and fester. Gaza is now gangrenous with Islamic terrorists.

 

[bilby]

This is a false equivalence. There is no comparison between a country defending itself from naked aggression and genocidal terrorist groups hellbent on eradicating Israel.

Don't be absurd. Israel was imposed upon people whether they liked it or not. They have fought against the eradication of their polity by the imposition of an entirely artificial state on their land ever since it happened.

Both sides are fighting for survival against an enemy who are hellbent on their destruction.

Your having picked a side doesn't make a shred of difference, and doesn't make your preferred side better or right.

Both sides are being arseholes to the other; Neither is justified in being so.

Israel has all the advantages; Palestinians are left with terrorism or defeat as their only options.

There are no good guys; But pretending that the Palestinians are the only bad guys makes you the arsehole.

What the fuck gives anyone, who doesn't even know who Mo Mowlam is, the right to an opinion on an apparently irresolvable asymmetrical conflict? Seriously, she literally wrote the fucking book on how to get two sides with irreconcilable differences to reconcile their differences.

Fuck picking sides. I'm on the side of not letting powerful people ride roughshod over everyone else, and then act totally shocked when they arc up and start being terrorists about it.

Should Palestinians kill Israeli civilians? Fuck no. Should anyone be surprised if they do? Also fuck no. Should internet based armchair experts with no clue about the recent history of resolving such conflicts be allowed to get away with the absurd claim that any violence in the affected region is "unprovoked"? Fucking fuck hell shit bastard NO!

Take your simplistic OP and shove it up your Gaza Strip.

The one thing we can say with certainty is that the problems of the Israeli-Palestine conflict are not due to an insufficiently violent retaliation by either side.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I feel dumber, having read the op. Fortunately, there are some news stories that are way more informative and give more objective, less bizarre wording and claims about the Squad.

For example, this was apparently not merely an air attack but also a ground attack. The ground attack is/was surprisingly extensive. A couple of Israeli soldiers have been captured. There's some possibility of hostages. Areas are/were infiltrated. The number wounded seems to have been 100 but then that was some initial number, it might really be in the hundreds. Number killed has gone from 1, to 5, to 22 most recently. Maybe it will keep climbing.

The commander of Hamas had called on young men to arm themselves and fight. Netanyahu has said this is war.

Live updates: Militants infiltrate Israel from Gaza as Hamas claims major rocket attack

A number of militants from Gaza have entered Israeli territory, the Israel Defense Forces said Saturday, shortly after a barrage of rockets left one person dead and at least three injured. Follow here for the latest.

www.cnn.com

Hamas kills 22 in unprecedented, wide-ranging incursion into Israel. Netanyahu says 'we are at war'

The militant Hamas rulers of the Gaza Strip have carried out an unprecedented and multi-front attack on Israel, firing thousands of rockets as dozens of Hamas fighters infiltrated the heavily fortified border in several locations.

apnews.com

 

[TV and credit cards]

Well this seems to be a bit of an issue:

Israel pounds Gaza after Palestinian gunmen seize Israelis in major attack

Palestinian fighters enter Israel and thousands of rockets are fired as Hamas launches unprecedented operation.

www.aljazeera.com

• Hamas, the group running the besieged enclave, said its surprise operation was in response to the desecration of Al-Aqsa Mosque and increased settler violence.
• The operation comes after thousands of settlers in recent days carried out provocative tours of the Al-Aqsa Mosque complex in occupied East Jerusalem during the Jewish holiday of Sukkot.

Israeli settlers storm Al-Aqsa Mosque complex on fifth day of Sukkot

Israeli settlers storm complex in groups and attempt to perform ‘Talmudic rituals’, according to a Waqf official.

www.aljazeera.com

Israel’s right defies rabbinate over Al-Aqsa

Settler movement is challenging traditional interpretation of rabbinic law backed by ruling right-wing coalition.

www.aljazeera.com

Desperate to find some western news source to confirm the radical writings of Al Jazeera,

Israeli drone hits Gaza as violent protests rage

An Israeli drone hit outposts in the Gaza Strip on Friday as violent protests persisted along the separation fence, while in a separate incident, troops shot dead a Palestinian fighter during a raid in the occupied West Bank.

www.reuters.com

You'll see at the end of paragraph 10 of 16:

In Gaza, Hamas officials have defended the demonstrations, ostensibly held to protest issues including the treatment of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails and Jewish visits to the Al Aqsa mosque compound, a site holy to both Muslims and Jews, who know it as the Temple Mount.

I knew I could find some mention of it in a western news source if I put my nose to it.
What I'm getting out of all of this is these ultranationalist Jewish groups are emboldened by Trump.il
So I'm guessing this is how it all started... this time.

 

[laughing dog]

And we have our first Ad Hominem.

Simple statement of fact. You are an apologist for Hamas and other Palestinian terrorists.

Using that standard, you are an apologist for Israeli terrorists.

The reality there is that the violence will continue from both sides until either one side is wiped from the face of the earth or when both sides have had enough and are willing to actually do the long and hard work of living together in peace.

I don't think that this generation or the next will see real peace there. Neither Hamas nor Israel is truly interested in peace. Hamas is pretty much a terrorist group. Netanhyu and other hardliners, along with the settlers are basically terrorists - they just use more subtle methods.

 

[Thomas II]

 

[ideologyhunter]

What a f***ing mess, in a long history of f***cking messes. At least Falwell and Robertson aren't around, to make their nitwitticisms about what this portends.

 

[Shadowy Man]

A barrage of 100s of rockets, including longer range ones reaching as far as Tel Aviv. Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib and the rest of the Squad must be rejoicing.

“must be”?? Are they though? Have they released any statements?

 

[Shadowy Man]

And by the way, didn’t Jared Kushner solve the Mideast problem?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

"Unprovoked"?

The IDF and Hamas have been exchanging fire for weeks. The situation has been worsening since the economic crisis in Gaza sharply intensified in early September. Salaries were cut, the only way for Gazan goods to reach markets outside of Gaza was closed, people protesting their confinement began rioting and the soldiers confining them began shooting, etc., etc.

This is an ongoing conflict. Pretending everything was fine up until this morning is absurd.

Unprovoked in that it's not a response to Israeli acts. Israel doesn't restrict Gazan exports except in that they'll close the border crossings when Hamas attacks them. When you hear about Gazans not being able to export look to the real cause: Hamas.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Meh. Violence between Israel and Palestine is as unremarkable as was violence between Great Britain and the IRA during my youth.

Mo Mowlam has been dead for eighteen years. We need another of her calibre; But they're sadly very rare.

Meanwhile, both sides will continue to make "unprovoked" attacks on the other. And the dominant side will continue to deride their opponents as terrorists, while ignoring the fact that they themselves are acting like total arseholes.

Treating people as subhumans, and then acting all shocked at their barbarism when they hit back, is fucking pathetic.

The fundamental problem is the Islamist money that flows in for the purpose of violence.

When you see longstanding conflicts like this there's always some form of outside money. Occasionally it's in the form of exported resources (for example, FARC) but normally it's either a state or wealthy donors. The conflict will continue so long as the money flows, the conflict will wind down when the money stops.

Neither Israel nor Palestine have any real say in the outcome.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You'll see at the end of paragraph 10 of 16:

In Gaza, Hamas officials have defended the demonstrations, ostensibly held to protest issues including the treatment of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails and Jewish visits to the Al Aqsa mosque compound, a site holy to both Muslims and Jews, who know it as the Temple Mount.

I knew I could find some mention of it in a western news source if I put my nose to it.
What I'm getting out of all of this is these ultranationalist Jewish groups are emboldened by Trump.il
So I'm guessing this is how it all started... this time.

Except that's an excuse, not the root cause. Why should the Muslims have the right to exclude the Jews? Jewish presence at a Jewish holy site isn't a trigger for war.