The Difference Between Atheism And Religion

[Ford]

So your mom's family were theists, then she became a believer, and you say that everyone you know is an atheist.

Something isn't adding up here, to put it mildly.

Know. Present tense. I didn't know my mother's family. All of her sisters and brothers are dead. If my cousins walked up to me, I wouldn't know them. I don't think any of those are theists, but I don't know. I don't know them. My brother, sister, dad, paternal uncles and aunts, and the few friends I have or have had to be more accurately, are atheists.

Why is that difficult for you to understand? They aren't militant atheists like you come across on the internet, they are apathetic. They don't care. It isn't an ideological fixation or political with them.

Plot twist here (in bold). I've had exactly one interaction with you here "on the internet," and you've decided (apparently) that I'm a "militant" atheist.

 

[pood]

OK. So Kim Il Jung and Hershey bars are gods. Are we done? Or does anything interesting follow from this?

 

[steve_bank]

One way Christians derive an identity and meaning is to do battle with atheists on the net in the name of a god.

All that time as a Christian and DLH does not seem to be able to say what 'believing in the bible' means.

Many Christians don't know what they believe or what god is, all they know is they believe it and god. It stimulates the feel good bran endorphins. A dopamine high.

Dopamine Drives motivation and reward, Reinforces behaviors that feel pleasurable, Effects tend to last longer than endorphins, and Involved in the brain's reward circuit.

In a sense Chrtianity is an addiction, it has to constantly be reinforced to maintain the effect.

Christians come here to reinforce the feeling of a reward.

 

[ideologyhunter]

And...WTF is going on with your Like reactions? I'm happier being loathed, actually.

 

[Ford]

OK. So Kim Il Jung and Hershey bars are gods. Are we done? Or does anything interesting follow from this?

I just remembered that I have half a dark chocolate bar in my fridge. I've found God, y'all!!!

 

[ideologyhunter]

You found Jesus, because it's only half god.

 

[DLH]

This is where I think the crux of the matter is. It's where atheists and I go 'round and 'round and 'round. How would you define god? Because to me it simply means might, venerated.

With respect, why would I care what it means to you?

Or I you. It doesn't matter what we think. And, you're not wrong about what some gods are, just limited. You aren't wrong when you say a specific God is a god and supernatural - you are only wrong when you say it has to be. I know you're not talking about "THAT" god but you say "NO" gods exist. That's factually incorrect.

I care what it means to most people in my society.

Even if most people are wrong. Had you been around when most people thought the Earth was flat you would have thought that as well. As would I. And we'd be wrong.

Oxford's Dictionary definition of God:

1. In Christianity and other monotheistic religions, the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being.
2. In certain other religions, a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity; an image, idol, animal, or other object worshiped as divine or symbolizing a god; used as a conventional personification of fate.
3. An adored, admired, or influential person; a thing accorded the supreme importance appropriate to a god.
4. Informal: the gallery in a theater.

And so should you, unless you are trying to enable the very common bait-and-switch gotcha "argument", that goes something like this:

1. God simply means <insert something that obviously exists>​

Or doesn't, or may or may not. It isn't about existence. I don't understand how an atheist could find that problematic outside of ideological fixation.

2. You cannot therefore deny that God is real and exists​

Wrong. God would be dependent upon the culture. Like King. But you can deny that God isn't real. You can't know whether some specific Gods (Brahma, Jehovah, etc.) literally exist. Others, like Pharaoh, Zeus, in their time, The Japanese Royal family, and Kim Jong-Un do literally exist.

3. Therefore you are only pretending to be an atheist​

No.

​

4. And you are really a member of my specific religion, who is lying to himself about its obvious factuality​

No.

Now, you may not be trying to make this obviously very bad argument; But given how frequently I encounter it, and given how your set up here looks exactly like the setup for this truly execrable argument, you can understand my trepidation and my disinclination to agree with the first premise, which is personal to you (rather than generally or objectively true).

You don't think I encounter the atheist version of the same stupid argument? Consider post #34 by @Ford

 

[Ford]

You found Jesus, because it's only half god.

If I'm being honest, it's not a Hershey bar. It's the generic Kroger "Simple Truth" organic brand. But...but...it's 70% cacao and has sea salt! So that's more than half god, right?

Wait...they were on sale so I got a two for one deal. So that's like...140% cacao? It's like god and a half!

Almost....

 

[DLH]

You found Jesus, because it's only half god.

Half? You mean a man? As were Moses and the judges, and Tammuz and others.

 

[pood]

You found Jesus, because it's only half god.

You have to work the holy ghost into the half bar too.

 

[DLH]

You found Jesus, because it's only half god.

If I'm being honest, it's not a Hershey bar. It's the generic Kroger "Simple Truth" organic brand. But...but...it's 70% cacao and has sea salt! So that's more than half god, right?

Wait...they were on sale so I got a two for one deal. So that's like...140% cacao? It's like god and a half!

Almost....

[Slaps knee] Uh, hu, hu, hu.

 

[DLH]

You found Jesus, because it's only half god.

You have to work the holy ghost into the half bar too.

The word holy means belongs to god. The word spirit means an invisible active force, like wind, breath, compelled mental inclination. It isn't a person. The Greek pneuma, for example, from which comes the English pneumatic and pneumonia.

 

[pood]

Or I you. It doesn't matter what we think. And, you're not wrong about what some gods are, just limited. You aren't wrong when you say a specific God is a god and supernatural - you are only wrong when you say it has to be. I know you're not talking about "THAT" god but you say "NO" gods exist. That's factually incorrect.

No, it’s not. Saying a Hershey bar is god is metaphorical, a manner of speaking. </thread>

 

[ideologyhunter]

Those chocolate syrup baptisms are intense.

 

[pood]

OK, so let’s be charitable. You’ve “established” that a Hershey bar is, or can be, god. Does something follow from this?

 

[Ford]

I think it is very important to ask that if a Hershey bar is, or can be god, does god have nuts?

 

[DLH]

It depends on how you definer religion and atheism. Different people have different views.

Oh, yeah, that will likely get me into trouble. My definition of religion and atheism would be two sides of the same dumb ideological coin.

There is hard, soft, agnostic,strong atheism. Buddhism and otter traditions are called religion but do not necessarily believe in gods as do Jews, Christiana, and Muslims.

Agreed. But many Jews and Christians are atheists who participate in religion for other reasons. I was just talking to a published scientist the other day who is atheist but attends church when he can because he likes the hymns. Can you imagine?! It is also familial, traditional, cultural, etc.

If atheism means simply no belief in gods, a-theist not theist, then the difference between atheism and Christianity is the belief and lack of belief in a god.

I know that is the common use, but it doesn't make much sense to me. To me a better definition is simply "without gods." You can not believe in God and be a Christian, you can believe in God and reject and hate that god. The demons know and yet shudder, as the Bible says.

Ir is more complicated Those who identify as atheist may believe in the supernatural, cosmic powers, and spirits. There is no singular Christian or atheist. Jews and Christians range from liberal to conservative.

IMO organized atheism is an ideology as is Christianity.

I agree with all of that. Though I don't necessarily believe organization is necessary.

 

[DLH]

I think it is very important to ask that if a Hershey bar is, or can be god, does god have nuts?

Yeah, but so does atheism.

 

[steve_bank]

And...WTF is going on with your Like reactions? I'm happier being loathed, actually.

I'd be hay to piss on you if that is what you like..... just let the mods know it is what you want so I don't get infrascted.

One of my favorite literary characters is Cyrano De Bergerac.

When walking down the street he'd rather meet an enemy than a friend. In the end a tragic chracterr.

 

[DLH]

No, it’s not. Saying a Hershey bar is god is metaphorical, a manner of speaking. </thread>

It doesn't matter. Do you think the other gods Jehovah told the Israelites to stay away from were literal or metaphorical? Tammuz? Idols? Ashtoreth, etc.