The Difference Between Atheism And Religion

[DLH]

And...WTF is going on with your Like reactions? I'm happier being loathed, actually.

I'd be hay to piss on you if that is what you like..... just let the mods know it is what you want so I don't get infrascted.

One of my favorite literary characters is Cyrano De Bergerac.

When walking down the street he'd rather meet an enemy than a friend. In the end a tragic chracterr.

I thought that was a reference to me. I usually hate the like/dislike vote up/down shit myself, but this time, for some reason I appreciate any feedback. I'm with @ideologyhunter as far as being loathed goes. If I'm not loathed I'm doing something wrong. I can restrain myself from expressing my appreciation upon request.

 

[DLH]

OK, so let’s be charitable. You’ve “established” that a Hershey bar is, or can be, god. Does something follow from this?

Nothing that I can think of. It just means worshipped. Venerated. Respected. Dicks, vaginas, luck, are common gods. Shit can even be a god. I use that in an illustration, probably in my earlier threads, either as DLH or RIS. Nobody cares so I'm not going to bother to go hunting for it.

 

[DLH]

One way Christians derive an identity and meaning is to do battle with atheists on the net in the name of a god.

My personal opinion, which I've held for about 15 years now, is that I argue with atheists because I'm an asshole. It has little to do with God. I think the atheists argue back because they are assholes. Thankfully, or I would be an asshole all alone. Actually that doesn't sound too bad and would explain my coming and going.

All that time as a Christian and DLH does not seem to be able to say what 'believing in the bible' means.

I'm not a Christian. I've never been a Christian. I would never be a Christian. I think Christians are stupid and fake. But I think that about atheists as well. I think that about everybody, actually.

Many Christians don't know what they believe or what god is, all they know is they believe it and god. It stimulates the feel good bran endorphins. A dopamine high.

That's an unsophisticated projection. Most Christians are motivated by traditional, cultural, social, political, familial and even financial attraction to "Christianity." They don't care about God or the Bible enough to even give it a cursory glance.

Dopamine Drives motivation and reward, Reinforces behaviors that feel pleasurable, Effects tend to last longer than endorphins, and Involved in the brain's reward circuit.

In a sense Chrtianity is an addiction, it has to constantly be reinforced to maintain the effect.

Christians come here to reinforce the feeling of a reward.

Do they come here? It has been my experience that the majority of atheists are apathetic and wouldn't come here if you paid them. The atheists I've encountered online are militant (meaning outspoken). The Christians I've encountered online are also a minority. On the fringe. Not regular church goers, also militant (meaning assholes like me) who loath organized religion.

 

[steve_bank]

It depends on how you definer religion and atheism. Different people have different views.

Oh, yeah, that will likely get me into trouble. My definition of religion and atheism would be two sides of the same dumb ideological coin.

There is hard, soft, agnostic,strong atheism. Buddhism and otter traditions are called religion but do not necessarily believe in gods as do Jews, Christiana, and Muslims.

Agreed. But many Jews and Christians are atheists who participate in religion for other reasons. I was just talking to a published scientist the other day who is atheist but attends church when he can because he likes the hymns. Can you imagine?! It is also familial, traditional, cultural, etc.

If atheism means simply no belief in gods, a-theist not theist, then the difference between atheism and Christianity is the belief and lack of belief in a god.

I know that is the common use, but it doesn't make much sense to me. To me a better definition is simply "without gods." You can not believe in God and be a Christian, you can believe in God and reject and hate that god. The demons know and yet shudder, as the Bible says.

Ir is more complicated Those who identify as atheist may believe in the supernatural, cosmic powers, and spirits. There is no singular Christian or atheist. Jews and Christians range from liberal to conservative.

IMO organized atheism is an ideology as is Christianity.

I agree with all of that. Though I don't necessarily believe organization is necessary.

To me all human social organizations are basi9cally the same in a broad sense.

Religion/beliefs based on the Holy Babble is inherently ideological regardless if you are not part of organized religion. Any religion has particular attributes.

Organized atheism and religion can share common human attributes, but religion and atheism are not the same.

If American Christianity was not so intrusive and onerous most atheist would probably not care what you believe as a Christian.

Again exactly what do you mean by 'bible believing'? What in the bible do you believe? Creation? The resurrection of Jesus?

Somebody brought up a now banned Unknown Soldier, you are making the same general arguments and we went through it all a ways back.

An endless circle saying he meant something other than thwe the deinition but nevere arculated what that was. He got frustrated and resorted to hostuty and insults and git banned.

 

[pood]

OK, so let’s be charitable. You’ve “established” that a Hershey bar is, or can be, god. Does something follow from this?

Nothing that I can think of. It just means worshipped. Venerated. Respected. Dicks, vaginas, luck, are common gods. Shit can even be a god. I use that in an illustration, probably in my earlier threads, either as DLH or RIS. Nobody cares so I'm not going to bother to go hunting for it.

Right, nothing follows from it, it’s just a bunch of time-wasting bullshit. Thanks for being honest.

 

[DLH]

To me all human social organizations are basi9cally the same in a broad sense.

Yeah. I pretty much agree.

Religion/beliefs based on the Holy Babble is inherently ideological regardless if you are not part of organized religion. Any religion has particular attributes.

Again, I pretty much agree.

Organized atheism and religion can share common human attributes, but religion and atheism are not the same.

I keep hearing that phrase. Organized atheism. I still don't know everyone yet, so it may be you repeating the phrase, but it is unique in my experience. Atheists aren't typically organized. I've seen more organized creatures running around farm yards with their heads cut off, as Sybil Fawlty said. Uh, [ha] forgot what I was talking about. Oh, I think the lack of organization is due to the majority of atheists being apathetic and apolitical in their atheistic what? Idiom.

If American Christianity was not so intrusive and onerous most atheist would probably not care what you believe as a Christian.

Not to mention myopic and moronic. Though I think most atheists don't.

Again exactly what do you mean by 'bible believing'? What in the bible do you believe? Creation? The resurrection of Jesus?

Ah, yes, I forgot earlier. Let me paste this from my website. A brief and relatively painless clip: "The Bible is fallible. The inspired word of Jehovah God is infallible, but the Bible itself is an imperfect translation of that. Thus, if you have a good reference Bible, at Mark 16:9-20, John 5:4, John 7:53-8:11, and 1 John 5:7, it will indicate that these verses did not appear in earlier manuscripts; they are spurious, added later."

I go on to explain more about it and what it actually means. Sucks on mobile. I took the mobile version down.

Somebody brought up a now banned Unknown Soldier, you are making the same general arguments and we went through it all a ways back.

An endless circle saying he meant something other than thwe the deinition but nevere arculated what that was. He got frustrated and resorted to hostuty and insults and git banned.

Uh, old earth, literal Adam, sin, resurrection. The link I give explains the meaning from Genesis to Revelation in a few paragraphs. I can paste it if you don't want to go there or are on a mobile. Just mention it.

 

[DLH]

Right, nothing follows from it, it’s just a bunch of time-wasting bullshit. Thanks for being honest.

No problem, and thanks for projecting your own bullshit back at me.

 

[DLH]

A stamp collector might join a discussion group of stamp collectors but a non-stamp collector isn't likely to join a group of non-stamp collectors.

That would depend on whether stamp collectors were in the habit of imposing their hobby on him, despite his lack of interest.

If such imposition were common in his community, he might well join a non-stanp collector group to discuss ways they can defend themselves against this.

What if a group of stamp collectors minding their own business got misrepresented by some asshole stamp collectors or a group of non-stamp collectors just couldn't stand the ideological variation in the society in which they all lived and one lone, heroic, poor, innocent, charming and almost spectacularly good looking stamp collector responded by pointing out the gross misrepresentation of both the stamp collecting and non-stamp collecting ideologues?

I'm just saying. Hypothetically.

 

[DLH]

BLH is posting the usual Christian jibber jabber.

Backwater, stump jumpin' jibberspeak?! It's pretty much Christianity without the pagan nonsense. JW stuff.

He 'believes in the bible' without being able to articulate what that mans or what he actually beeves.

Calm down, spellcheck. No one here gives a shit what I beeves.

He may be looking for others to explain his belief to him.

Ha.

The crux of the divide is not about religious belief per se. It is what Christians presume to do in the name of beliefs. In the USA conservative Christians try to impose what they consider an absolute god mandated morality from the bible on others.

Yeah. I've said that. And that I'm not Christian. I would have been a Christian prior to 325 CE and Constantine, although Paul mentioned they were already starting to prefer myth (Greek mythos, later translated into the Latin fabulas, fable). The irony is that most atheist think highly of the Great Greek philosophers like Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, and think the Bible is nonsense when in reality the modern day Christian believes mostly those Greek philospers teachings (immortal soul, trinity, Cross, etc.) and the Bible doesn't teach that bullshit.

The Bible teaches that when you're dead you're worm food, not demon fodder in an underground playground. It doesn't teach when you die you go to heaven or hell, that the soul is some magic part of us that goes on like Socrates' butterfly, or that the Earth was created in 144 hours 6,000 years ago, or was flat, or God can see into the future, etc.

In the Northwest we are still dealing with the aftermath of Native American children who were taken by force from parents and placed in Christian schools.

Christians who justified slavery based on a line in the bible

If it were not for the actions of Christians in this country none of us atheists would likerly care what they believe.

And you all would have done the same things which is why atheists really care what the "Christians" believe or more specifically, what they do. It isn't that atheists don't believe in gods it's that they want to be gods. Deus Ex Machina, Deus Vult, Imitatio Dei.

 

[DLH]

Why don’t you define them since you started this conversation? Then we can discuss on terms you are most comfortable with.

Think of the Latin word credit, from which comes the English words credentials, credible, credit. It means "one believes." Oxford defines faith as "complete trust or confidence in someone or something," truth as "a fact or belief that is accepted as true," and trust as "firm belief in the reliability, truth, ability, or strength of someone or something."

Jesus said faith (Latin credit) can move mountains. Think of a mining operation.

 

[steve_bank]

Right, nothing follows from it, it’s just a bunch of time-wasting bullshit. Thanks for being honest.

No problem, and thanks for projecting your own bullshit back at me.

Deja Vu all over again, echoes of Unknown Soldier. When all else fails insult. A perfect example of why I will nevber be Christain. Theyclaim a moral high grud but are no better than anyone else.

You are around and debate atheists for 30 years and do not know about organized atheism?

Does Ron Reagan and his atheist TV commercials ring a bell?

I a not part of it, there are atheist groups here in Seattle and most cities. There are atheist writers..

You are just another ignorant shallow theist with a website, a dime a dozen.

I learned a lesson with Unknown Soldier, it is pointless to engage you.

 

[DLH]

Oh, OK. Are you the same guy using a different user name?

Yes, RIS. See my profile status.

I see. Back to this again. Why did you change your user name?

My website is called Revelation In Space. It's a science fiction story about a lifetime atheist who makes an android in his own image and post mortem, has it go out and investigate spirituality. I was looking for a new forum and this one came up in a Google search. Waaaaay down. Like 20+ pages. I came here. The name was familiar but my memory is fucked. I looked down the list of posters and saw my (RIS) avatar.



I couldn't remember what password I used so I requested a reset using my revelationinspace@gmail. I got nothing. So I put in my personal email, dhenson2011@live, and I got a password reset for a DLH which I don't remember having posted as. That has happened to me before. I had only posted very briefly as RIS but had posted for a little longer as DLH. I contacted the administration in the private feedback forum informing them of this, announced it on my status, posted a message to that effect on the RIS status, put AKA RIS under my avatar (custom title) and they merged the two accounts. RIS no longer exists but the posts I made in that name are merged into this one.

Does that quell your nuroses?

 

[Shadowy Man]

Why don’t you define them since you started this conversation? Then we can discuss on terms you are most comfortable with.

Think of the Latin word credit, from which comes the English words credentials, credible, credit. It means "one believes." Oxford defines faith as "complete trust or confidence in someone or something," truth as "a fact or belief that is accepted as true," and trust as "firm belief in the reliability, truth, ability, or strength of someone or something."

Jesus said faith (Latin credit) can move mountains. Think of a mining operation.

Ok. So if we restrict ourselves to these definitions, what next?

You said that you believe in politicians existence but don’t trust them, then tried to create a parallel of that to an atheist not believing in gods in the same way that you don’t trust politicians. This is not a valid parallel construction.

That’s why I asked for the definitions you wanted to use.

 

[DLH]

Deja Vu all over again, echoes of Unknown Soldier. When all else fails insult. A perfect example of why I will nevber be Christain. Theyclaim a moral high grud but are no better than anyone else.

You keep saying the same things I've said and I'm not talking about quoting. You're an ideologue. And we will not get along. And you will badger me like a harpy. And you will want me to be gone so bad you can taste it. And you will rejoice when I've been banned and say stupid shit like "He's going back to his church and telling them what an honor it was to be banned."

Been there. Done that. Too many times to count. It's boring. And it's silly.

You are around and debate atheists for 30 years and do not know about organized atheism?

Nope. Never heard of it. In fact, what I get is "can't train a cat" ad infinitum.

Does Ron Reagan and his atheist TV commercials ring a bell?

Uh, no.

I a not part of it, there are atheist groups here in Seattle and most cities. There are atheist writers..

Have you been drinking? I have no idea what you're talking about.

You are just another ignorant shallow theist with a website, a dime a dozen.

Oh, yeah. That I can agree with.

I learned a lesson with Unknown Soldier, it is pointless to engage you.

Sorry you feel that way. No hard feelings.

 

[DLH]

Ok. So if we restrict ourselves to these definitions, what next?

Then Donald Trump, Elon Musk and Joe Rogan jump out from the shadows and say "GOT YA!"

You said that you believe in politicians existence but don’t trust them, then tried to create a parallel of that to an atheist not believing in gods in the same way that you don’t trust politicians. This is not a valid parallel construction.

That’s why I asked for the definitions you wanted to use.

Sorry. I'm a bit slow. What? I believe politicians exist but I don't believe in them, as in trust. An atheist doesn't believe gods exist, which is wrong, some do, some don't, with some it's uncertain, like my God Jehovah, but others do exist. Most atheists, like most theists, have no real idea what the simple concept of gods is. They don't believe they exist literally, they don't believe in them. And that's great. Good on them. Not a problem with me. Or, in my opinion, God.

A true believer, which I'm, isn't at all interested in converting you in any way, shape or form. In fact, I have sympathy and empathy for you in part because I think Christendom and Islam meddling in politics is monstrous. But on the other hand, that's their political right just as it is yours. You just happen to be outvoted.

That's the name of the game. A game which I don't play. From a religious or political position.

 

[Shadowy Man]

You said that you believe in politicians existence but don’t trust them, then tried to create a parallel of that to an atheist not believing in gods in the same way that you don’t trust politicians. This is not a valid parallel construction.

That’s why I asked for the definitions you wanted to use.

Sorry. I'm a bit slow. What?

I was a just responding to your post as written:

“an atheist doesn't believe in gods just as an apolitical person such as myself doesn't believe in politicians”

This is the parallel construction that doesn’t work if you conflate the terms “believe” and “trust”. The first “believe” in that sentence doesn’t mean the same thing as the second “believe” in that sentence according to your own definitions.

 

[unapologetic]

The following are replies to posts on page 2. The last time I was here.
But then on pages 3 & 4 your identity as a trickster came to light, making some of this irrelevant.
I'm gonna post it anyway.

I know gods do not exist. That makes me atheist.

The problem I have with this is a god can be anything or anyone. Countless gods have and do exist.

Well if we can't agree on what god means, why bother.

I guess I'm an anti-theist theist, then? Actually I don't oppose them, I just have nothing to do with them and would like to see them destroyed.

I was gonna say "then calling yourself a 'bible beleaver' makes you a fucking idiot"

Recruiting?

Yes. They make it their mission to 'save our soles'.

my atheist friends and family mock and ridicule me ... But they get a kick out of it. That's the only reason they do it. They don't really care.

Right. And for believers it's a duty, which makes it worse.

If no one worshipped Jehovah then Jehovah would no longer be God or a god. It has nothing to do with his supernatural abilities. It's about veneration. Worship.

No. It's about the existence. (or non). Zues and Oden are considered gods even tho no one worships them anymore.

People believe what they want to believe and you're wasting your time trying to inform them.

Yeah, we're wasting our time here.

Rightly so according to atheists? Certainly not 6,000 years of history in every language known to man.

Reality is not up for a vote,
Reality is not a popularity contest,
Reality does not give a fuck what we believe or worship. (and a true all powerful god wouldn't either)

you can believe in God and reject and hate that god.

In some sects FEAR of god is considered worship.

 

[pood]

Deja Vu all over again, echoes of Unknown Soldier. When all else fails insult. A perfect example of why I will nevber be Christain. Theyclaim a moral high grud but are no better than anyone else.

You keep saying the same things I've said and I'm not talking about quoting. You're an ideologue. And we will not get along. And you will badger me like a harpy. And you will want me to be gone so bad you can taste it. And you will rejoice when I've been banned and say stupid shit like "He's going back to his church and telling them what an honor it was to be banned."

Here comes the persecution complex, right on schedule.

And no, atheists do not “want to be gods.” Argument to Oxford dictionary remains silly and tedious. And yes, many atheists know about the Greco-Roman roots of Christian mythology. The reason the ancient Greek thinkers are widely admired today is for their first efforts to intellectually explore and explain the world on its own, naturalistic terms, though Greek mythology, like all myths, can be interesting.

 

[DLH]

I was a just responding to your post as written:

“an atheist doesn't believe in gods just as an apolitical person such as myself doesn't believe in politicians”

This is the parallel construction that doesn’t work if you conflate the terms “believe” and “trust”. The first “believe” in that sentence doesn’t mean the same thing as the second “believe” in that sentence according to your own definitions.

Right. I think. That was my point. Believing in the existence of something, like I do politicians and atheists don't gods isn't necessarily the same as believing i.e. trusting in something like I don't politicians and atheists don't in gods.

 

[DLH]

Here comes the persecution complex, right on schedule.

I wonder why atheists are usually so hypocritical and myopic. I think it's the presence of liberalism among their unwashed masses. Conservatives want to conserve and liberals want to destroy.

And no, atheists do not “want to be gods.”

Yeah they do, it's all mostly about control.

Argument to Oxford dictionary remains silly and tedious.

Pesky definitions.

And yes, many atheists know about the Greco-Roman roots of Christian mythology. The reason the ancient Greek thinkers are widely admired today is for their first efforts to intellectually explore and explain the world on its own, naturalistic terms, though Greek mythology, like all myths, can be interesting.

I'm recently broke out my old Play Station God of War games.