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How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

Well , Russia has never been able to make a decent car or commercial jet.
Well, true for cars, not true for commercial jets. Soviet Era jets were on par with western ones.
MC21 is on par with latest Boeing and AirBuses. Also keep in mind it is much more advanced than what China has and chinese jets are mostly western parts anyway, whereas MC21 is mostly russian.
 
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Sorry Barbos, again cosequnces of Putin's war.
Outdated info from 2022.
Toyota is going back. Green Goblin has only accelerated the process.
Problem for them of course is that they won't get the same great terms as before.
Russia is in better shape and can dictate better terms, not to mention that there will be punishment for leaving.
 
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It appears that Trump — or the people around him, since Trump in a deeply stupid man who has no ability to conceive a strategic vision — is aiming for the return of the pre-World War II Great Powers politics in which the strong carved up the weak. Perhaps he or his minions conceive a grand alliance of the U.S., Russia and China to bring the rest of the world to heel. Most probably, Trump intends to finish the job he started on Jan. 6, 2021, of overthrowing the government and annulling the constitution, canceling election, and declaring himself dictator for life, to be succeeded by one of his slimeball sons. In all of this he might well succeed. It beggars belief that he was not immediately prosecuted after Jan. 6.

In any case, perhaps a breakup of the world order that has lasted, more or less with stability, for eighty years was to be expected at some point anyway. International arrangements are rarely stable for that long. Those who support Trump and Putin and favor the destruction of Ukraine are beneath contempt, and I suggest no longer responding to such people on this board.
Trump probably sees himself as a kind of Mussolini. It doesn't tale a psychologist to see he has some ind of inferiority complex. He is in his heaven, he hob knobs with the likes of Putin, therefore he is a great leader. e is a global leader negotiating ends to wars. Wielding tariffs on a whim. Theatening to take the Panama Canal and Greenland.

It is the run up to WWII.
But Putin has shown himself to be such a loser these last three years. Why would Trump want to [hobnob] with him?
The problem with the statement in bold is it is beyond dispute Putin has in the last three years shown the condition of his military and more broadly his government is a mess. It has been largely a paperwork shuffle of everyone stating everything is going well under the leadership of Putin. We've all seen what a mess the Russian military is, corrupt their defense industry is, and dependent upon western trade for electronics and advanced machinery. I called this a meat grinder since the early months of the war and it has shown itself to be just that. Russia's military is in terrible shape. That it can currently outproduce Ukraine and throw more warm bodies at the problem is what keeps it grinding ahead in this war.
In short, in the eyes of an individual like Trump, Putin should appear to be a loser and I have to ask why Trump would still hold him in any regard today. Trump could have taken a firmer stance here, looked like Superman protecting Ukraine, threatened Russian ocean going oil exports, authorized covert attacks within areas of Ukraine seized by Russia. Consider, what would it take to scare away Russia's shadow fleet of oil tankers? These are not patriotic Russians transporting this oil.
Shorter still, why hasn't Trump cast Putin aside? After all, it is what he does. He uses people to their end usefulness and then discards them. Why not Putin?

USA has given much more overall.

Given that Europe has given more to Ukraine than the US, what do you mean by this statement??
On scale, I would doubt Europe has the stockpiles. The US sometimes gives from current stock and sometimes by authorizing the defense industry to produce more for Ukraine. I think Europe's ability to continue to give what they have and even more would dry up fairly quickly. There would be great holes in Ukraine getting the variety of equipment/weapons it needs.
The hump Europe has to get over is they need to commit funds to their defense industry to produce more. Their defense companies cannot put on another shift of workers or build more manufacturing capacity in hopes that the government money will come.

And while it was nice to see EU leaders get together to rally support behind Ukraine, I heard nothing of real substance. GB basically said, we will if you will, coalition of the willing and all that jazz. Said they will commit 5,000 missiles to Ukraine's defence. Over what period of time, I wonder. Do they have 5,000 missiles? That would be swell. Will Germany, now that they have this proEU conservative in office. Merz still has to put together a government, I believe. What promises will need to be made first? And France. What of France? Do the French people even know what a sense of urgency is? Poland? Tusk will try and persuade Trump. While Trump is quite malleable, Vance is another story. I don't like Vance. Vance is a dick with a brain and he's in Trump's ear, so to speak.
 
Trump has delusions of grandeur.

He praises dictators like Putin and Kim Jung Un. He denigrates leaders of western liberal democracies.

He is an aberration as an American president. At heart he is a dictator and without our balance of power he would become a dictator, if he could get away with it lie Putin did.

The idea that Russia's sea transit was in any way threatening by Ukraine or anyone else is part of Putin's paranoid delusions.

Putin and Trump personalities are very similar.

We will eventually get past Trump and move on . Russia I doubt will recover.
 
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Well , Russia has never been able to make a decent car or commercial jet.
Well, true for cars, not true for commercial jets. Soviet Era jets were on par with western ones.
MC21 is on par with latest Boeing and AirBuses. Also keep in mind it is much more advanced than what China has and chinese jets are mostly western parts anyway, whereas MC21 is mostly russian.
And Boeing had a design center in Russia.... I doubt Russia did it on its own.

Back in the 90s I worked on avionics that went into Boeing, Airbus, and Bombardier jets.. Variable reluctance position sensors. Also an oil pressure sensor for a P&W engine.

Pratt And Whitney engines. American parts and systems.

in the 90s I worked on avionics that went into Boeing, Airbus, and Bombardier jets. Given I have been through aircraft system certification testing I would not trust a jet made in Russia, given the Russian aviation history. Canada, Europe, and USA have highly independent aviation certification oversight. At hat it sometimes fails.

I doubt that kind of political independence exists in Russia.


In the end it does not matter. Putin has alienated a major part of the industrialized world and population is declining. Russia has natural gas and oil to sell and not much else. Nothing to compete with the EU, North America, and China.

Even if Putin takes Ukraine it does not improve the lives of Russians.
 
And Boeing had a design center in Russia.... I doubt Russia did it on its own.
Russia did not do what on its own?
You are a victim of cold war propaganda.
Pratt And Whitney engines. American parts and systems.

Nope, russian engines. The only thing which is western is avionis. But that's pretty hard to replace if you want to sell the plane internationally. And it's mostly french.
In the end it does not matter. Putin has alienated a major part of the industrialized world and population is declining. Russia has natural gas and oil to sell and not much else.
John McCain? go back to be dead.
 
Trump's cronies are out there saying that Zelensky needs to resign. Zelensky went to the white house. Vance and Trump lied and attacked him. Zelensky tried to set the record straight. He gets kicked out.

Trump and Vance caused this. It's their fault. They are evil shits. Trump and Vance should resign.

MAGAs are out there calling the meeting a triumph for "America First". They are idiots. It is not "strength" to set up and ambush to lie and bully and it's not a strength to weaken the US as Trump has done.

I can't stand these people. They are stupid and evil.

 
And Boeing had a design center in Russia.... I doubt Russia did it on its own.
Russia did not do what on its own?
You are a victim of cold war propaganda.
Pratt And Whitney engines. American parts and systems.

Nope, russian engines. The only thing which is western is avionis. But that's pretty hard to replace if you want to sell the plane internationally. And it's mostly french.
In the end it does not matter. Putin has alienated a major part of the industrialized world and population is declining. Russia has natural gas and oil to sell and not much else.
John McCain? go back to be dead.
Cold War propaganda? Putin is using force to coerce countries to align with Russia.

I rember Poland, the Gadansk ship yard, and Solidarity.

I remember East Germany. I remember tearing down the Berlin Wall with their bare hands.

The Hungarian uprising.


Ukraine, Georgia, Chechnya, Crimea all the same theme. People who reject Russia and who Russia wants get attacked. I opposed communism in the Cold War, I oppose Russia today and its dictator Putin. You are welcome to your country that nobody wants to move to for obvious reasons. Your country where speaking your mind gets you jailed.

As to Russian jet engines, all the more reason to avoid Russian jets.
 
Trump's cronies are out there saying that Zelensky needs to resign. Zelensky went to the white house. Vance and Trump lied and attacked him. Zelensky tried to set the record straight. He gets kicked out.

Trump and Vance caused this. It's their fault. They are evil shits. Trump and Vance should resign.

MAGAs are out there calling the meeting a triumph for "America First". They are idiots. It is not "strength" to set up and ambush to lie and bully and it's not a strength to weaken the US as Trump has done.

I can't stand these people. They are stupid and evil.

I wonder though, if the president of Ukraine resigns and since there are no elections held while the country in under martial law, I would assume the parliament appoints a caretaker??? If so, they should put the mayor of Kyiv, Vitali Klitschko in there. See if Vance and Trump want to run their mouths at him.
 
Cold War propaganda? Putin is using force to coerce countries to align with Russia.
That's a lie. Putin uses force to coerce countries into stoping being neocon puppets. Georgia finally understood that. Ukraine will too. Even Baltic States will eventually.
 
Cold War propaganda? Putin is using force to coerce countries to align with Russia.

I rember Poland, the Gadansk ship yard, and Solidarity.

I remember East Germany. I remember tearing down the Berlin Wall with their bare hands.

The Hungarian uprising.
As I said, Cold War propaganda.
Do you remember CIA Death Squads in Central America? Vietnam war? US assassinating democratically elected prime minister of Kongo?
Pinochet? Do you remember US supporting "freedom" fighter named bin Laden? Do you remember US supporting Islamic State in Syria? Do you remember NATO bombing of Yugolsavia?
Your memory is highly selective. Regime in Kiev is a nazi regime which is run by a insane clown.
It must be destroyed, period.
 
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Here's a good even headed Triggernometry video explaining why Trump got angry with Zelensky



I'm so fucking sick of today's media climate. It's not just that we're only exposed to biased news speaking to our base. But today, we're effectively shielded from reality. Unless we make an active effort to see other points of view. And this is harder than ever. Because Youtube and Facebook are invisibly filtering out the stuff you should see, in favour of the stuff you want to see. It's like everyone is delusional at the same time. And we have no way of knowing who's the most delusional. Is it me? Who the fuck knows?!? This is in a time where we have more access to correct information and fact checking than ever before. But how the fuck do you fact check stuff if it's unclear what needs to be fact checked, and what fact checkers are reliable?
 
Here's a good even headed Triggernometry video explaining why Trump got angry with Zelensky



I'm so fucking sick of today's media climate. It's not just that we're only exposed to biased news speaking to our base. But today, we're effectively shielded from reality. Unless we make an active effort to see other points of view. And this is harder than ever. Because Youtube and Facebook are invisibly filtering out the stuff you should see, in favour of the stuff you want to see. It's like everyone is delusional at the same time. And we have no way of knowing who's the most delusional. Is it me? Who the fuck knows?!? This is in a time where we have more access to correct information and fact checking than ever before. But how the fuck do you fact check stuff if it's unclear what needs to be fact checked, and what fact checkers are reliable?

Too bad Kisin repeats neocon lies. Prime example of that is the pictures of that Ukrainian idiot-soldier, who was not tortured in russian prison at all, instead fucking nazi imbecile choose to hide in AzovSteel catacombs eating rats.
As for the White House clown show, that's good for Kisin to point out that media is trying to portray it in pro-elensky way. But There was 40 minutes meeting before that which was not caught on video at all. And there had been few weeks before that where Elensky was told in no-uncertain terms no to do his usual routine and wear a damn suit.

Kisin is the victim of lying western media, same as all of you.
Reality is opposite of what they say. It is ukraiian regime who is guilty of the crimes you are trying to put on Russia.
They are the ones who torture and rape.
Kisin tries to present himself as smart but he is in idiot, Only idiot would believe that Putin "regime" is that dumb to release prisoners in such a state. How fucking dumb you have to be?
How fucking dumb you have to be to believe that russian soldiers would be raping 90 year old women?
I understand that Ukrainians are that dumb, they have been brainwashed for 20 years with that shit. But for fuck's sake, use your tiny brain to think a little.
 
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