Brainwashing of Theists - 2 - What about our LIVING loved ones?

[Ramaraksha]

Your self-importance is remarkable.

Just Rama being Rama.

Why don't they ask - Now we are in Heaven, great, joy & everything
But how can we be happy knowing our loved ones are suffering on earth?

They forget all about those suckers and losers. They are in HEAVEN!! It’s pure joy, and fun in the sun. They sing and play harps. No dirges! Who wants to toil and suffer for a lifetime, pay tithes, give alms and end up on cloud nine, WORRYING?
That ain’t heaven, boss!
You’ll see… if you don’t end up in the Lake-O-FAHR !!!

Back in high school, I am
God, what would I give for some adult conversation

 

[pood]

How can we be in Heaven, enjoying the good life while my children are going to bed hungry?

Ivan Karamazov asked this very question more than 150 years ago, and said that absent a justification for the suffering of children, he “returned his ticket to heaven.” Untold numbers of people have asked and do ask the same question. Your self-importance is remarkable.

So we got off the train of "he is not reading any news" now? can you admit that you didn't understand what I posted?

No, because I understand perfectly what you wrote about journalists and religion and about humans and dogs, and you are wrong on all counts.

It continues to beggar belief that you yammering all this stuff at a board mainly consisting of ATHEISTS.

 

[pood]

Back in high school, I am
God, what would I give for some adult conversation

Then let’s have some from you. We are doing just fine as adults.

 

[Ramaraksha]

How about you share where journalists have fawned over religion and asked about how wonderful life will be in heaven? If you see various talking heads and celebrities doing this on TV, they are not JOURNALISTS. You live in Chicago? Why don’t you pick up a copy of the Tribune or the Sun-Times sometimes and read through it and tell me about what you see? I can guarantee you it will be all about the living, their welfare, politics, government, social security and just about anything else you can image dealing with living people and the here and now.

Oh God! We are not connecting
it's not like we don't discuss life here on earth - that is silly - of course we do that
What I am saying is once these followers get to Heaven - why is it that they only ask about meeting their DEAD loved ones?
Why don't they ask - Now we are in Heaven, great, joy & everything
But how can we be happy knowing our loved ones are suffering on earth?
How can we be in Heaven, enjoying the good life while my children are going to bed hungry?
My wife is struggling to put food on the table - may turn to prostitution to make ends meet
My country is at war - millions are suffering and I am supposed to be enjoying the good life in Heaven?
Not one person asks such a question

Honestly, did you guys not pause to think?

Mirror

An adult does not read the news you think or watch CNN? BTW no one reads newspapers anymore - today we get our news from the internet

Irrelevant. Please support your claim that journalists are always tossing softball questions about religion. Specific cites, please.

Can you and Elixer pause a bit and think things thru before you guys post?

Mirror.

This is why I say hate kills brain cells

Mirror.

It is obvious now that it has become a who-is-posting rather than reading & understanding what is being posted
I thought I was entering an Adult forum where I could freely discuss my ideas, instead I am back in high school!

No, you are in big-boy school where you are always challenged to support your claims, such as your daft claims about journalism and religion and your even more daft claims about humans and dogs.

I have had enough of this childish rhetoric - you misunderstood my post & yet came back with another snarky personal comment
it is obvious that you are reacting to me and not to my posts
This is a sheer waste of my time and yours as well
You will pardon me if I do not reply to your posts anymore - you can do the same for mine as well, but I am not holding
my breath on that, lol

 

[pood]

How about you share where journalists have fawned over religion and asked about how wonderful life will be in heaven? If you see various talking heads and celebrities doing this on TV, they are not JOURNALISTS. You live in Chicago? Why don’t you pick up a copy of the Tribune or the Sun-Times sometimes and read through it and tell me about what you see? I can guarantee you it will be all about the living, their welfare, politics, government, social security and just about anything else you can image dealing with living people and the here and now.

Oh God! We are not connecting
it's not like we don't discuss life here on earth - that is silly - of course we do that
What I am saying is once these followers get to Heaven - why is it that they only ask about meeting their DEAD loved ones?
Why don't they ask - Now we are in Heaven, great, joy & everything
But how can we be happy knowing our loved ones are suffering on earth?
How can we be in Heaven, enjoying the good life while my children are going to bed hungry?
My wife is struggling to put food on the table - may turn to prostitution to make ends meet
My country is at war - millions are suffering and I am supposed to be enjoying the good life in Heaven?
Not one person asks such a question

Honestly, did you guys not pause to think?

Mirror

An adult does not read the news you think or watch CNN? BTW no one reads newspapers anymore - today we get our news from the internet

Irrelevant. Please support your claim that journalists are always tossing softball questions about religion. Specific cites, please.

Can you and Elixer pause a bit and think things thru before you guys post?

Mirror.

This is why I say hate kills brain cells

Mirror.

It is obvious now that it has become a who-is-posting rather than reading & understanding what is being posted
I thought I was entering an Adult forum where I could freely discuss my ideas, instead I am back in high school!

No, you are in big-boy school where you are always challenged to support your claims, such as your daft claims about journalism and religion and your even more daft claims about humans and dogs.

I have had enough of this childish rhetoric - you misunderstood my post & yet came back with another snarky personal comment
it is obvious that you are reacting to me and not to my posts
This is a sheer waste of my time and yours as well
You will pardon me if I do not reply to your posts anymore - you can do the same for mine as well, but I am not holding
my breath on that, lol

Nothing about my posts to you is insulting or personal. You mistake critiquing your posts as personal attacks. In addition, most of your posts to me and to others ARE personal attacks, I am asking you TO BACK UP YOUR CLAIMS. It is obvious you can’t do that.

 

[Learner]

Because the titanic majority of actual journalists don’t ask about meeting our DEAD loved ones in heaven, and because the vast majority DO inquire about LIVING loved ones, your question is meaningless.

The point of the question was - How does one feel about living the good life in Heaven while our living loved ones are suffering?

According to Revelation (do read it) everyone is judged on judgement day. A one-time-only-show where 'everyone' is going to be spectators.

Our country at war, friends, elderly people fighting to save our country as we see happening in Ukraine
Heaven as they say if a place full of joy & happiness

As they say: Heaven is an End to All wars,death suffering, etc. & etc..

You see, a new type of mindset; different from the one you currently view the world with... is needed in order to appreciate and accept it.

Can we really be happy when we see our loved ones going thru hard times?
And do we just wring our hands and cry or can we do something about it? Like come back and work to make the
world a better place? But then that would mean Reincarnation! Saying Reincarnation is a good idea!

Reincarnation is by comparison, as you're illustrating Christianity's Heaven.. is a 'computer game' for it's godlike creators who entertain themselves for the continuous cycle of human suffering.

People keep coming back having to relive the harsh atrocious lives, switching roles each time it comes around. And depending what you do in this game, you either advance a level or you go back. Poor sod who reaches a high level through his many lives slips up badly. Back to square one.

That won't work, will it?
The answer is obvious - we care no more! That's the only way to enjoy Heaven

A different mindset that appreciates a Heaven, is not the type that views enjoying life in Heaven as you are visioning it - the worldly material wants, selfish pleasures, laziness, doing nothing all day, just merely sponging.

As you have said about people "who would be getting so bored in heaven" etc.. Your mental frame-work is incompatible so far - understanding the concept of ultimate contentment. (Hopefully you can come join us when you do )

 

[pood]

Because the titanic majority of actual journalists don’t ask about meeting our DEAD loved ones in heaven, and because the vast majority DO inquire about LIVING loved ones, your question is meaningless.

The point of the question was - How does one feel about living the good life in Heaven while our living loved ones are suffering?

According to Revelation (do read it) everyone is judged on judgement day. A one-time-only-show where 'everyone' is going to be spectators.

Evidence?

Our country at war, friends, elderly people fighting to save our country as we see happening in Ukraine
Heaven as they say if a place full of joy & happiness

As they say: Heaven is an End to All wars,death suffering, etc. & etc..

Evidence? “As they say” is not evidence.

You see, a new type of mindset; different from the one you currently view the world with... is needed in order to appreciate and accept it.

Evidence?

Can we really be happy when we see our loved ones going thru hard times?
And do we just wring our hands and cry or can we do something about it? Like come back and work to make the
world a better place? But then that would mean Reincarnation! Saying Reincarnation is a good idea!

Reincarnation is by comparison, as you're illustrating Christianity's Heaven.. is a 'computer game' for it's godlike creators who entertain themselves for the continuous cycle of human suffering.

Evidence?

People keep coming back having to relive the harsh atrocious lives, switching roles each time it comes around. And depending what you do in this game, you either advance a level or you go back. Poor sod who reaches a high level through his many lives slips up badly. Back to square one.

Evidence?

That won't work, will it?
The answer is obvious - we care no more! That's the only way to enjoy Heaven

A different mindset that appreciates a Heaven, is not the type that views enjoying life in Heaven as you are visioning it - the worldly material wants, selfish pleasures, laziness, doing nothing all day, just merely sponging.

Evidence?

As you have said about people getting bored in heaven. Your mental frame-work is incompatible so far (but there's hope) with understanding the concept of ultimate contentment.

Evidence?

 

[Learner]

Because the titanic majority of actual journalists don’t ask about meeting our DEAD loved ones in heaven, and because the vast majority DO inquire about LIVING loved ones, your question is meaningless.

The point of the question was - How does one feel about living the good life in Heaven while our living loved ones are suffering?

According to Revelation (do read it) everyone is judged on judgement day. A one-time-only-show where 'everyone' is going to be spectators.

Evidence?

Are you asking evidence for what the scriptures mean since there are differences between Ram and myself in the conversation?

If so... it's as I said, written in Revelation.

If it's not the answer you mean, then it's... the trust of the writers (in various ways) i.e. the Faith they are telling the truth! Witnesses, reports and testimonies.

What now?

Our country at war, friends, elderly people fighting to save our country as we see happening in Ukraine
Heaven as they say if a place full of joy & happiness

As they say: Heaven is an End to All wars,death suffering, etc. & etc..

Evidence? “As they say” is not evidence.

You see, a new type of mindset; different from the one you currently view the world with... is needed in order to appreciate and accept it.

Evidence?

Because the evidence is plain and clear in the conversation before your very eyes. I appreciate Heaven of the bible in concept, and Rams doesn't!

Can we really be happy when we see our loved ones going thru hard times?
And do we just wring our hands and cry or can we do something about it? Like come back and work to make the
world a better place? But then that would mean Reincarnation! Saying Reincarnation is a good idea!

Reincarnation is by comparison, as you're illustrating Christianity's Heaven.. is a 'computer game' for it's godlike creators who entertain themselves for the continuous cycle of human suffering.

Evidence?

You don't need evidence for a pov on religious comparisons, especially when it's in a hypothetical 'manner of speaking'.

People keep coming back having to relive the harsh atrocious lives, switching roles each time it comes around. And depending what you do in this game, you either advance a level or you go back. Poor sod who reaches a high level through his many lives slips up badly. Back to square one.

Evidence?

Again...It's in a 'manner of speaking'. What we/ I understand Reincarnation to be.

That won't work, will it?
The answer is obvious - we care no more! That's the only way to enjoy Heaven

A different mindset that appreciates a Heaven, is not the type that views enjoying life in Heaven as you are visioning it - the worldly material wants, selfish pleasures, laziness, doing nothing all day, just merely sponging.

Evidence?

Evidence in our posts by the simple fact that you can read the differences between Ram being Hindu...and I being Christian who believes Heaven AS I see it according to the Bible.

As you have said about people getting bored in heaven. Your mental frame-work is incompatible so far (but there's hope) with understanding the concept of ultimate contentment.

Evidence?

In context: Because those who don't want to be there, won't. The concept is simple.

The other answer is like above, faith in the writers etc ..

 

[pood]

Because the titanic majority of actual journalists don’t ask about meeting our DEAD loved ones in heaven, and because the vast majority DO inquire about LIVING loved ones, your question is meaningless.

The point of the question was - How does one feel about living the good life in Heaven while our living loved ones are suffering?

According to Revelation (do read it) everyone is judged on judgement day. A one-time-only-show where 'everyone' is going to be spectators.

Evidence?

Are you asking evidence for what the scriptures mean since there are differences between Ram and myself in the conversation?

If so... it's as I said, written in Revelation.

If it's not the answer you mean, then it's... the trust of the writers (in various ways) i.e. the Faith they are telling the truth! Witnesses, reports and testimonies.

What now?

Our country at war, friends, elderly people fighting to save our country as we see happening in Ukraine
Heaven as they say if a place full of joy & happiness

As they say: Heaven is an End to All wars,death suffering, etc. & etc..

Evidence? “As they say” is not evidence.

You see, a new type of mindset; different from the one you currently view the world with... is needed in order to appreciate and accept it.

Evidence?

Because the evidence is plain and clear in the conversation before your very eyes. I appreciate Heaven of the bible in concept, and Rams doesn't!

Can we really be happy when we see our loved ones going thru hard times?
And do we just wring our hands and cry or can we do something about it? Like come back and work to make the
world a better place? But then that would mean Reincarnation! Saying Reincarnation is a good idea!

Reincarnation is by comparison, as you're illustrating Christianity's Heaven.. is a 'computer game' for it's godlike creators who entertain themselves for the continuous cycle of human suffering.

Evidence?

You don't need evidence for a pov on religious comparisons, especially when it's in a hypothetical 'manner of speaking'.

People keep coming back having to relive the harsh atrocious lives, switching roles each time it comes around. And depending what you do in this game, you either advance a level or you go back. Poor sod who reaches a high level through his many lives slips up badly. Back to square one.

Evidence?

Again...It's in a 'manner of speaking'. What we/ I understand Reincarnation to be.

That won't work, will it?
The answer is obvious - we care no more! That's the only way to enjoy Heaven

A different mindset that appreciates a Heaven, is not the type that views enjoying life in Heaven as you are visioning it - the worldly material wants, selfish pleasures, laziness, doing nothing all day, just merely sponging.

Evidence?

Evidence in our posts by the simple fact that you can read the differences between Ram being Hindu...and I being Christian who believes Heaven AS I see it according to the Bible.

As you have said about people getting bored in heaven. Your mental frame-work is incompatible so far (but there's hope) with understanding the concept of ultimate contentment.

Evidence?

In context: Because those who don't want to be there, won't. The concept is simple.

The other answer is like above, faith in the writers etc ..

I am asking you for evidence that anything in the bible is true. The bible cannot be evidence for its own veracity.

To focus on a couple of points: What is the evidence that heaven exists? What is the evidence that Jesus was the son of god, was resurrected and went to heaven? What is the evidence for the literal existence of the biblical god?

 

[Ramaraksha]

As they say: Heaven is an End to All wars,death suffering, etc. & etc..

Well yes, for YOU! For the dead, of course it is an end
And as long as you don't look on earth and see the suffering of your loved ones, people, what pain? what suffering?
Just ignore the children going to bed hungry, the poor going without food, the discrimination and hate being suffered
by so many, rapes, tortures, children getting lost in the forest, the suffering of animals
Just think of how happy YOU will be, how YOU will be enjoying Heaven! yay!
Self-gratification for eternity, yay!
Cowards running away from REAL LIFE and hoping to hide in a fantasy

Because the evidence is plain and clear in the conversation before your very eyes. I appreciate Heaven of the bible in concept, and Rams doesn't!

Hey, who wouldn't appreciate Heaven?
The life that yes-men, sycophants, cronies, prostitutes, gigolos live down here - all they have to do is believe, support, submit and sing praises of their Sugar Daddy strong man, men like Putin and then a life of ease & comfort!
Stop caring about loved ones on earth - care no more!
Enjoy the easy good life being provided - but why is God doing this? Billions of people sitting around doing nothing, shamelessly sponging off him? How that does make any sense?
Shhh, we don't ask such questions
.
But choices HAVE consequences
You may not have any shame in lowering God down to a Sugar Daddy and yourself down to a crony, sycophant, but I do
We view God as a Father - No Father is letting grown children sit around doing nothing sponging off him
Father's care for their children as kids - once grown we MUST leave the nest, stand on our own two feet
WE are True Children of God
The Earth is our Home - THIS is the World that God made for us - It is here we live
Here we WORK, PAY for food, EARN what we desire
We do not beg, live off charity, we are self-sufficient, we are not helpless dependents
.
As I mentioned there are consequences to greed
If the easy lazy life is what you want, you will be resurrected as a Pet - Dog, Cat - even sheep, pig - THEN
you will get your Heaven - the easy lazy life is yours
WE do not want to end up as Dogs
We prefer Human life

 

[Ramaraksha]

Reincarnation is by comparison, as you're illustrating Christianity's Heaven.. is a 'computer game' for it's godlike creators who entertain themselves for the continuous cycle of human suffering.

People keep coming back having to relive the harsh atrocious lives, switching roles each time it comes around. And depending what you do in this game, you either advance a level or you go back. Poor sod who reaches a high level through his many lives slips up badly. Back to square one.

Yes - but THIS is the life that God created for us
I am sorry you find God's work full of faults
God gets a F from you? His work no good?
There are two ways to get rid of pain & suffering, right?
1 - Run away & Hide - Heaven
2 - Face it, fight it, overcome it - Make God Proud - Reincarnation
WE choose to do the latter - running away won't work
You are going anywhere, you are coming right back here to earth - only as a different life form
But you WILL get your Heaven

That won't work, will it?
The answer is obvious - we care no more! That's the only way to enjoy Heaven

A different mindset that appreciates a Heaven, is not the type that views enjoying life in Heaven as you are visioning it - the worldly material wants, selfish pleasures, laziness, doing nothing all day, just merely sponging.

As you have said about people "who would be getting so bored in heaven" etc.. Your mental frame-work is incompatible so far - understanding the concept of ultimate contentment. (Hopefully you can come join us when you do )

Yep - call it whatever you want - i see an easy lazy life sitting around doing nothing
Death is a gateway to a magic land of ease & comfort - yay!
I was not asking whether you were going to be bored - I was asking how do you support yourself?
you know like how you WORK here on earth? Put food on the table, a roof over your head?
I assume you don't have to do anything like that in Heaven?
Just lay about content, doing nothing? Like a Dog who is KEPT in comfort?
Can't you see where your greed is leading you?
.
I am trying to save you from ending up as a Dog
God is speaking to you thru life
A Life where he said you MUST work once you are an adult, leave the nest
Even Christianity says so with the story of Adam and Eve - Adam grew up and now must leave the nest and enter a harsh world
That is the life that God created for you
No sitting around doing nothing - you MUST learn to stand on your own two feet
No begging, no living off charity, no being a helpless dependent
And it is not just us, ALL living creatures that you see around you obey this law
.
But God will not force you to follow his Laws, embrace the life that he gave you
Not everyone is cut out for human life
It is the easy lazy life of a helpless dependent you want, you WILL get it

 

[Ramaraksha]

According to Revelation (do read it) everyone is judged on judgement day. A one-time-only-show where 'everyone' is going to be spectators.

A Father does not judge his children
No Father will torture & brutalize his children in Hell
And how primitive and simple - torture if you do not pass, pleasures of the flesh if you do
Clearly this is a Master judging his Slaves/Servants - down on their knees, begging for his mercy, shaking with fear
WE are not Slaves/Servants
WE are True Children of God

 

[Ramaraksha]

How about you share where journalists have fawned over religion and asked about how wonderful life will be in heaven? If you see various talking heads and celebrities doing this on TV, they are not JOURNALISTS. You live in Chicago? Why don’t you pick up a copy of the Tribune or the Sun-Times sometimes and read through it and tell me about what you see? I can guarantee you it will be all about the living, their welfare, politics, government, social security and just about anything else you can image dealing with living people and the here and now.

Well Here is your chance and Elixer and others also - you say plenty of people questioned religious people how the feel about the condition of their LIVING loved ones - well, here is your chance to ask a Theist - and if there are more people like him
You notice that Lerner never answered my question, the best I got - Heaven is the end to all wars, suffering? What?
I assume he is speaking for those who died - sure, of course for the dead there is no more suffering, if they stay dead that is
But what about all those bound for Heaven? How do they feel about their living loved ones suffering?
They see their grandson lost in the forest, cold, shivering, crying for his mommy, maybe being eyed by a predator
The searchers searching in the wrong direction
Or they see their grandson being led by a priest to a private room
or a Tsunami coming
Russia raining bombs on apartment homes occupied by their loved ones
Or a fire consuming the home their loved ones are sleeping in, totally unaware of the fire, until it is too late
.
What do they do? Are they not aware of these things?
So what about all that - when good things happen - "My loved one is looking down and smiling"???
They look down only when good things are happening?
.
They are aware but all they can do is cry, wring their hands?
Can they appeal to God to do something? But he refuses?
.
Questions, questions - no answers
And I bet that theists will not touch this question - It is quite easy to figure out why
They know it too which is why they refuse to answer such questions

 

[Elixir]

I have had enough of this childish rhetoric

Likewise. You ask us to “think things through”, where “things” refers to the shallow and sometimes just plain wrong stuff you post.
Post something interesting fer crissakes.

 

[Learner]

Reincarnation is by comparison, as you're illustrating Christianity's Heaven.. is a 'computer game' for it's godlike creators who entertain themselves for the continuous cycle of human suffering.

People keep coming back having to relive the harsh atrocious lives, switching roles each time it comes around. And depending what you do in this game, you either advance a level or you go back. Poor sod who reaches a high level through his many lives slips up badly. Back to square one.

Yes - but THIS is the life that God created for us
I am sorry you find God's work full of faults
God gets a F from you? His work no good?
There are two ways to get rid of pain & suffering, right?
1 - Run away & Hide - Heaven
2 - Face it, fight it, overcome it - Make God Proud - Reincarnation
WE choose to do the latter - running away won't work
You are going anywhere, you are coming right back here to earth - only as a different life form
But you WILL get your Heaven

That won't work, will it?
The answer is obvious - we care no more! That's the only way to enjoy Heaven

A different mindset that appreciates a Heaven, is not the type that views enjoying life in Heaven as you are visioning it - the worldly material wants, selfish pleasures, laziness, doing nothing all day, just merely sponging.

As you have said about people "who would be getting so bored in heaven" etc.. Your mental frame-work is incompatible so far - understanding the concept of ultimate contentment. (Hopefully you can come join us when you do )

Yep - call it whatever you want - i see an easy lazy life sitting around doing nothing
Death is a gateway to a magic land of ease & comfort - yay!

It's a different concept than what you like to think.Anyway... No taxes, no health insurance that is unaffordable for many who have to work to the bone for, etc.& etc.. yay!

Death and Taxes in every reincarnation cycle. A system of Misery and Worries, yet you may still end up being a turkey in your next life. Let's hope Thanks Giving doesn't come too soon.

I was not asking whether you were going to be bored - I was asking how do you support yourself?

You have been posting that rhetoric in many posts a while back - It's still all part of your Heaven rant.

Just as Steve b notices. You certainly do have an axe to grind.

you know like how you WORK here on earth? Put food on the table, a roof over your head?
I assume you don't have to do anything like that in Heaven?

Not ALL people are able to put food on the table.

What did they do in their previous lives to deserve this situation? This is reincarnation for you...All the ills of the world keep coming round in each life cycle.

Master and Slave is the perfect ideal in your reincarnation when there are Caste Systems!

Hand in hand they go.

Just lay about content, doing nothing? Like a Dog who is KEPT in comfort?
Can't you see where your greed is leading you?

Greedy people don't go to heaven in Christianity...did you not know that'? You haven't got any grasp of the Gospel contexts at all, have you?

False narratives is your argument forte.

.
I am trying to save you from ending up as a Dog
God is speaking to you thru life
A Life where he said you MUST work once you are an adult, leave the nest

You are selling Reincarnation by your anti-Christian Heaven. You want to bring along atheists as allies WITH you to argue against the theist Heaven but unfortunately... they are also arguing against you too.

Even Christianity says so with the story of Adam and Eve - Adam grew up and now must leave the nest and enter a harsh world

To survive in a harsh world needs people to be responsible, when most will do whatever means to survive which also means taking from other people by killing them. This is your preferred world.

That is the life that God created for you
No sitting around doing nothing - you MUST learn to stand on your own two feet
No begging, no living off charity, no being a helpless dependent
And it is not just us, ALL living creatures that you see around you obey this law

You are haven't got a clue. You are saying Heaven should to be like the current world - A Survival of the Fittest world ?

.
But God will not force you to follow his Laws, embrace the life that he gave you
Not everyone is cut out for human life
It is the easy lazy life of a helpless dependent you want, you WILL get it

Ram...you are a posting contradiction at times. "Not everyone is cut out for human life" um, well yeah. The repetitive gloom and misery keeps coming round in reincarnation. Again it's a Survival of the Fittest world you seem to prefer.

Think hard and then join us

 

[pood]

Greedy people don't go to heaven in Christianity...did you not know that'? You haven't got any grasp of the Gospel contexts at all, have you?

Nobody goes to heaven because it doesn’t exist. If you have evidence that it does, please present it.

 

[Learner]

Greedy people don't go to heaven in Christianity...did you not know that'? You haven't got any grasp of the Gospel contexts at all, have you?

Nobody goes to heaven because it doesn’t exist. If you have evidence that it does, please present it.

My conversation would be different to you in a 3 way conversation

You have made a 'truth claim' - "Heaven doesn't exist". What evidence do you have to back up the claim? Unless it's really a faith claim.

I have given my answer when you asked for evidence in one of you previous posts, then you couldn't accept the answer and you asked again, as if the question you asked was a different question I answered to.. Now this is a third time.

I said I trust the authors of the bible..Faith mentioned in post #28 which would include all the corroborations outside the bible.

 

[pood]

Greedy people don't go to heaven in Christianity...did you not know that'? You haven't got any grasp of the Gospel contexts at all, have you?

Nobody goes to heaven because it doesn’t exist. If you have evidence that it does, please present it.

My conversation would be different to you in a 3 way conversation

You have made a 'truth claim' - "Heaven doesn't exist". What evidence do you have to back up the claim? Unless it's really a faith claim.

No, YOU have made a truth claim — that heaven exists. That is a positive claim that requires evidence to back it up. Mine is a negative claim that requires no such evidence.

I have given my answer when you asked for evidence in one of you previous posts, then you couldn't accept the answer and you asked again, as if the question you asked was a different question I answered to.. Now this is a third time.

I said I trust the authors of the bible..Faith mentioned in post #28 which would include all the corroborations outside the bible.

Which corroborations outside the bible are those?

Your “trusting” the authors of the bible is NOT evidence.

 

[steve_bank]

Greedy people don't go to heaven in Christianity...did you not know that'? You haven't got any grasp of the Gospel contexts at all, have you?

Nobody goes to heaven because it doesn’t exist. If you have evidence that it does, please present it.

My conversation would be different to you in a 3 way conversation

You have made a 'truth claim' - "Heaven doesn't exist". What evidence do you have to back up the claim? Unless it's really a faith claim.

No, YOU have made a truth claim — that heaven exists. That is a positive claim that requires evidence to back it up. Mine is a negative claim that requires no such evidence.

I have given my answer when you asked for evidence in one of you previous posts, then you couldn't accept the answer and you asked again, as if the question you asked was a different question I answered to.. Now this is a third time.

I said I trust the authors of the bible..Faith mentioned in post #28 which would include all the corroborations outside the bible.

Which corroborations outside the bible are those?

Your “trusting” the authors of the bible is NOT evidence.

That pretty much says it all.

 

[Learner]

Greedy people don't go to heaven in Christianity...did you not know that'? You haven't got any grasp of the Gospel contexts at all, have you?

Nobody goes to heaven because it doesn’t exist. If you have evidence that it does, please present it.

My conversation would be different to you in a 3 way conversation

You have made a 'truth claim' - "Heaven doesn't exist". What evidence do you have to back up the claim? Unless it's really a faith claim.

No, YOU have made a truth claim — that heaven exists.

I believe it is truth, yes of course. And so, in terms of being on a mutual 'level playing field', with a non-theist. I am quite comfortable to define my belief as a faith claim.

In terms of a common notion that is often said 'you can't prove either way God exists or doesn't exist.. That's is where I place your "truth claim", that's really just a faith claim.

That is a positive claim that requires evidence to back it up. Mine is a negative claim that requires no such evidence.

Then your negative claim just simply means...

..there might be..or there might not be a God...

Therefore ...your initial claim (...Heaven doesn't exist..) is just a faith claim... and not a truth claim, especially since you have negative evidence.

I have given my answer when you asked for evidence in one of you previous posts, then you couldn't accept the answer and you asked again, as if the question you asked was a different question I answered to.. Now this is a third time.

I said I trust the authors of the bible..Faith mentioned in post #28 which would include all the corroborations outside the bible.

Which corroborations outside the bible are those?

Archeology and verified locations, various writing perspectives, especially the negative ones about Jesus or Christians from the Jews and Romans that gives more reasons for the existence of these important characters of the Gospels. The psychological and emotional states with the strongly emphasis on truth telling... to sum up quite briefly.

Your “trusting” the authors of the bible is NOT evidence.

Also.The main evidence mostly used in courts today are peoples testimonies and witness statements. That would be giving your statement personally in court or as written statements in your absence in court.

That's sort of the category/area where I place the statements of the authors of the bible in.