• Welcome to the Internet Infidels Discussion Board.

Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

To denote when two or more threads have been merged
Here's a major new development. Gazans have started protesting against Hamas. Still small protests. But perhaps finally the Palestinian support for Hamas is waning. Let's hope

Let’s hope this continues. I also assume and hope that the corrupt Netanyahu government has stopped supporting Hamas! (Tonge in cheek there). The war is going to go on until the hostages are released and Hamas is de-armed and dis-banded.
So, it is never going to end.
Why are you so pessimistic about the possibility of Palestinians choosing peace and prosperity over chaos and poverty?
Tom

The Palestinians have chosen peace and prosperity over chaos and poverty on multiple occasions, at first with their own counter-proposals over the future of Palestine when the British were withdrawing, then most obviously when the Oslo Accords were signed, and again when the PA formally and officially sought a diplomatic solution to the conflict via the UN and the international community. Their choosing the path that leads to peace isn't enough to secure a peaceful outcome, though. The Israelis have to choose to walk that path as well. Right now, the Israelis are on the path of territorial expansion through displacing the non-Jews and enshrining religious bigotry in their Basic Laws. We all know where that path leads.

Maybe you could read up on those greenhouses in Gaza, how they came to be built, how they came to be under Palestinian control, the hopes people had when they invested in growing crops for export, the jobs and economic growth they provided, and how/why it all came to naught.
Why did Gaza not export the greenhouse produce through the Rafah crossing into Egypt?
And then maybe you might wonder why the story that gets circulated is anti-Psemitic horseshit about Palestinians destroying their chances at prosperity because they're just so gosh darned angry all the time.
 
That has nothing whatsoever to do with de-arming and disbanding Hamas or other terrorists.
That's ridiculous.
De-arming and disbanding violent Muslim terrorists is the key to bringing peace and prosperity to the Palestinians.
Tom
Please give an explanation why it is rational, let alone reasonable, that continuing to bomb and attack Gaza will cause a disarming and a disbanding of Hamas.
Please give an explanation why it is rational, let alone reasonable, that continuing to hold hostages will cause Israel to stop bombing.
It isn’t. And I don’t know who believes that thought. I know I don’t.
Tigers! said:
And then explain how it will another vital key to peace - the disarming and dissolution of radical Israeli Zionists.
And then explain how it will another vital key to peace - the disarming and dissolution of radical Hamas
I cannot. Why do you expect others to explain your inane straw men?
 
Last edited:
Here's a major new development. Gazans have started protesting against Hamas. Still small protests. But perhaps finally the Palestinian support for Hamas is waning. Let's hope

Let’s hope this continues. I also assume and hope that the corrupt Netanyahu government has stopped supporting Hamas! (Tonge in cheek there). The war is going to go on until the hostages are released and Hamas is de-armed and dis-banded.
So, it is never going to end.
Why are you so pessimistic about the possibility of Palestinians choosing peace and prosperity over chaos and poverty?
Tom

The Palestinians have chosen peace and prosperity over chaos and poverty on multiple occasions, at first with their own counter-proposals over the future of Palestine when the British were withdrawing, then most obviously when the Oslo Accords were signed, and again when the PA formally and officially sought a diplomatic solution to the conflict via the UN and the international community. Their choosing the path that leads to peace isn't enough to secure a peaceful outcome, though. The Israelis have to choose to walk that path as well. Right now, the Israelis are on the path of territorial expansion through displacing the non-Jews and enshrining religious bigotry in their Basic Laws. We all know where that path leads.

Maybe you could read up on those greenhouses in Gaza, how they came to be built, how they came to be under Palestinian control, the hopes people had when they invested in growing crops for export, the jobs and economic growth they provided, and how/why it all came to naught.
Why did Gaza not export the greenhouse produce through the Rafah crossing into Egypt?

I have already linked to articles that go into the history in some detail. I have no doubt you can find more information if you give it a try. And I already answered your question here.

Rafah lacked the infrastructure to get the produce to market before it spoiled whereas the Karni crossing had a cargo terminal which had been built for the specific purpose of transporting produce and goods from Gaza to international markets. Also, the agreements between Israel, Egypt, and Gaza specified what could be imported/exported to and from Gaza and where the exchanges could happen so it's not like shipping strawberries was a simple matter of driving the trucks an extra few miles to Egypt. Israel agreed to keep the Karni crossing open which is what made the greenhouse project promising enough to attract investors. Then Israel slowed down traffic at the crossing before closing it completely, the produce spoiled, and the project went bankrupt.

In the past I have been willing to go over the same facts and links over and over again. I don't do that as much anymore. If you are interested in discussing the greenhouse project and the Rafah crossing closures, you can research it and share what you find.

And then maybe think about why the first version of story you heard isn't factual, it's inaccurate and incomplete where it isn't outright slander. And then maybe think about why people believe the slander.
 
Last edited:
Israeli troops killed 15 Palestinian medics and buried them in a mass grave, UN says

DEIR AL-BALAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — Palestinians held funerals Monday for 15 medics and emergency responders killed by Israeli troops in southern Gaza, after their bodies and mangled ambulances were found buried in an impromptu mass grave, apparently plowed over by Israeli military bulldozers.

The Palestinian Red Crescent says the slain workers and their vehicles were clearly marked as medical and humanitarian personnel and accused Israeli troops of killing them “in cold blood.” The Israeli military says its troops opened fire on vehicles that approached them “suspiciously” without identification.
The Israeli military said Sunday that on March 23, troops opened fire on vehicles that were “advancing suspiciously” toward them without emergency signals.

It said “an initial assessment” determined that the troops killed a Hamas operative named Mohammed Amin Shobaki and eight other militants. Israel has struck ambulances and other emergency vehicles in the past, accusing Hamas militants of using them for transportation.

However, none of the dead staffers from the Red Crescent and Civil Defense had that name, and no other bodies were reported found at the site, raising questions over the military’s suggestion that alleged militants were among the rescue workers.
 
How is "UN says..." different from "UN repeats the claims of violent Islamic terrorists."?
Tom
 
How is "UN says..." different from "UN repeats the claims of violent Islamic terrorists."?
Tom
If the claims are true, then it is no different. Duh.

Otherwise, it is different when the UN is repeating what its on the ground observers who are not violent Islamic terrorists are reporting.


 
Hamas ‘quietly drops’ thousands of deaths from casualty figures

Telegraph said:
New research shows that Hamas has quietly dropped thousands of deaths from its Gaza war casualty figures.
Salo Aizenberg, from the US-based non-profit organisation Honest Reporting, said that Hamas’s March 2025 casualty update had removed thousands of people it previously listed as having been killed last year.
“Hamas’s new March 2025 fatality list quietly drops 3,400 fully “identified” deaths listed in its August and October 2024 reports – including 1,080 children. These “deaths” never happened. The numbers were falsified – again,” Mr Aizenberg wrote.
[...]
A report by the Henry Jackson Society in December said that the number of civilians killed in the Gaza conflict had probably been inflated by Hamas in order to portray Israel as deliberately targeting innocent people.
[...]
“The demographics are the most important thing in all this. We’ve heard the claims that about 70 per cent of the deaths are women and children, and these lists, especially the most recent, show that’s complete nonsense,” he said.
About 72 per cent of fatalities aged 13-55 are men, which is the rough age range of Hamas combatants, Mr Fox said. “We know that Hamas uses child soldiers, and these statistics show clearly that Israel is targeting fighting-aged men.”
In previous conflicts, Hamas figures have often been corroborated by external organisations, Mr Fox said.
The Henry Jackson Society’s December report said: “The ministry of health, operating under Hamas, has systematically inflated the death toll by failing to distinguish between civilian and combatant deaths, over-reporting fatalities among women and children and even including individuals who died before the conflict began.
 
Gazan clan executes alleged Hamas operative who killed one of their relatives

Times of Israel said:
Members of a prominent Gazan family in Deir al-Balah on Tuesday executed a man who they said was a Hamas operative responsible for the deadly shooting of one of their relatives earlier in the day.
The gunmen were members of the Abu Samra clan of central Gaza. They said they killed the Hamas member after he shot their relative Abdulrahman Sha’aban Abu Samra while he was waiting in line for flour in Deir al-Balah.
However, Hamas still has enough power to go after people protesting against them.

Palestinian man tortured to death by Hamas militants after criticizing group and attending protests, family says

CNN said:
A 22-year-old Palestinian man was tortured and killed by Hamas militants after he criticized the group publicly and participated in rare anti-Hamas protests in Gaza, his family said.
Uday Rabie was taken last week by dozens of armed fighters with Hamas’ military wing, the Al-Qassam Brigades, in the Tal al-Hawa neighborhood of Gaza City, his brother Hassan Rabie told CNN on Tuesday.
Hassan said his brother had altercations with members of the group around a month before his death and had expressed fears that militants would come for him.
Uday Rabie had also participated alongside thousands of others in anti-Hamas and anti-war protests that took place in the enclave earlier last week, his brother said. Rabie demonstrated in the al-Rimal neighborhood of Gaza City, Hassan said, chanting “No to Hamas” during the rally.
[...]
“They took him, they kept torturing him,” Hassan told CNN. “They then called me and said: come get your brother.”
“He was still alive” when the militants returned him, Hassan said. Rabie was only wearing underwear and the fighters had him “tied by the neck with a rope, and were dragging him, beating him,” Hassan added.
“They handed him over to me, and told me, in these words: This is the fate of everyone who disrespects Al-Qassam Brigades and speaks ill of them,” Hassan said.
Rabie later died of his injuries.

I wonder what SJP, CUAD, and other campus groups protesting against Israel (and often in favor of Hamas) have to say about this.
 
Gazan clan executes alleged Hamas operative who killed one of their relatives

Times of Israel said:
Members of a prominent Gazan family in Deir al-Balah on Tuesday executed a man who they said was a Hamas operative responsible for the deadly shooting of one of their relatives earlier in the day.
The gunmen were members of the Abu Samra clan of central Gaza. They said they killed the Hamas member after he shot their relative Abdulrahman Sha’aban Abu Samra while he was waiting in line for flour in Deir al-Balah.
However, Hamas still has enough power to go after people protesting against them.

Palestinian man tortured to death by Hamas militants after criticizing group and attending protests, family says

CNN said:
A 22-year-old Palestinian man was tortured and killed by Hamas militants after he criticized the group publicly and participated in rare anti-Hamas protests in Gaza, his family said.
Uday Rabie was taken last week by dozens of armed fighters with Hamas’ military wing, the Al-Qassam Brigades, in the Tal al-Hawa neighborhood of Gaza City, his brother Hassan Rabie told CNN on Tuesday.
Hassan said his brother had altercations with members of the group around a month before his death and had expressed fears that militants would come for him.
Uday Rabie had also participated alongside thousands of others in anti-Hamas and anti-war protests that took place in the enclave earlier last week, his brother said. Rabie demonstrated in the al-Rimal neighborhood of Gaza City, Hassan said, chanting “No to Hamas” during the rally.
[...]
“They took him, they kept torturing him,” Hassan told CNN. “They then called me and said: come get your brother.”
“He was still alive” when the militants returned him, Hassan said. Rabie was only wearing underwear and the fighters had him “tied by the neck with a rope, and were dragging him, beating him,” Hassan added.
“They handed him over to me, and told me, in these words: This is the fate of everyone who disrespects Al-Qassam Brigades and speaks ill of them,” Hassan said.
Rabie later died of his injuries.

I wonder what SJP, CUAD, and other campus groups protesting against Israel (and often in favor of Hamas) have to say about this.
Probably the same sort of denials or excuses that apologists for Israel say about Israel's torture and maltreatment of Palestinian prisoners: ideologues being ideologues.
 
“The Jews are coming,”

Eight Red Crescent personnel, six Civil Defense workers and a U.N. staffer were killed in the shooting before dawn on March 23 by Israeli troops conducting operations in Tel al-Sultan, a district of the southern Gaza city of Rafah. Troops then bulldozed over the bodies along with their mangled vehicles, burying them in a mass grave. U.N. and rescue workers were only able to reach the site a week later to dig out the bodies.
 
When Israel makes mistakes they admit it and come clean. More countries should follow Israel's example

Oh, good dog! Wutta load of crap.

First they tried to cover it up, literally. Then they lied about it. When the lies were proven to be lies then it was just a "mistake". It was a deliberate war crime and you're making pitiful excuses for it.
 
When Israel makes mistakes they admit it and come clean. More countries should follow Israel's example

Oh, good dog! Wutta load of crap.

First they tried to cover it up, literally. Then they lied about it. When the lies were proven to be lies then it was just a "mistake". It was a deliberate war crime and you're making pitiful excuses for it.
Especially, since in this instance, there was immediate and compelling evidence of their “inaccuracy”. This is not a case of someone discovering a hitherto unknown inaccuracy.

But it is admirable that Israel is willing to admit its mistake. But if it doesn’t cause a change in the shoot first, then sing a Brittany Spears hit, it is just a nod to the pro-Israel cheer crowd.
 
Back
Top Bottom