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"Children cannot consent to puberty blockers" and being in the wrong body

@Jarhyn
In this example the professor began the conversation with hostile swearing and refused to have any kind of normal conversation with Chris.
Edit: initially the professor asked a polite question.

Btw sometimes people accuse Chris of being hateful but that professor seems way more hateful to me.

Chris even says:
And remember, children are beautiful just as they are. No drugs or scalpels needed.
Which doesn’t sound hateful - even if it is inaccurate.

I guess a related thing is hate speech laws.
Something you never see these jackasses post is their outtakes.

First off, we have no idea whether another professor in the faculty got ambushed by this shitheel and the footage was never posted. It could have been this same professor, previously asked some other question, but the question itself is quite generally always loaded in the first place.

The OP question is loaded, and this is a common tactic of religious shysters.

It's a pattern I have been trying to make sure stays successfully beaten out of me by myself.

It is absolutely hateful to tell someone who is 96:4 going to like what they ask for and hate what you tell them over regretting their decision (but generally being able to make peace with it because it WAS their decision, and most often capable of reversing that decision).

I understand that this is HARD. You will NOT find good answers or consistent views among anyone who pretends or tries to make it simple or caters to that dopamine hit when someone tells you you are right.

If I heard someone on the street ask me that kind of question, on camera, I would stop them, ask them to turn off the camera, and have a polite conversation with them, first about leading questions, and then about honest rhetoric, and then I would probably show them Sapolski's interview about how complicated sex and gender are, and then discuss each of the things I posted in my long winded discussions here about the game theory.

As soon as their eyes glazed over, probably halfway through the Sapolski video even though it's not that long, I would roll my eyes and tell them that if they can't follow science, to get out of my face and never speak to me again.

The next time I, or anyone who heard from me about that joker, was confronted by him, he would get another such video for his collection.
 
Any divisive language is going to get people mad or troll them and then make them screw up on camera compared to a rehearsed guy who is probably cherry-picking video content for his political agenda.
Note I watched a girl(?) asking Chris to not publish footage of her conversation but he said that he didn’t need her permission because it was in a public place or something like that.
A decent human being would have answered “okay” to that request.
 
I was just looking at Chris's website again...
"On December 1st, 2020, the High Court in London ruled that children are unlikely to be able to give informed consent to undergo treatment with puberty-blocking drugs"
which is basically what his sign says - so it seems to be based on an informed high court decision rather than just being an unqualified man's opinion.

The site also says:
Our politicians refuse to listen, and our media refuse to report, so I’m having conversations across North America, one person at a time.
 
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I was just looking at Chris's website again...
"On December 1st, 2020, the High Court in London ruled that children are unlikely to be able to give informed consent to undergo treatment with puberty-blocking drugs"
which is basically what his sign says.

The site also says:
Our politicians refuse to listen, and our media refuse to report, so I’m having conversations across North America, one person at a time.
Children are unlikely to be able to give informed consent to puberty itself, in that case.

This is addressed in my first post in the thread, and not answered by the currently politicized courts of the UK, either.

Children are being forced into puberty. Often they are forced into puberty by their parents even if their body would not otherwise do this thing.

If "testosterone" and "estrogen" are both acceptable outcomes owing to gonads, they must be acceptable outcomes regardless of the gonads..

We can and should absolutely be certain remaining on blockers is for the best, but this shitheel is campaigning on the irreversible forcing of bodily changes on people against their will.

That has been revealed to be horrific.

Why do you keep coming back to this crank and shitheel?

He is a charlatan, in league with charlatans, and many times over, more useful to track where he tells you not to listen and to do that anyway.

He has been exposed, by everyone on this thread, practically.
 
Why do you keep coming back to this crank and shitheel?
Well the high court ruling was news to me. I think it makes his case better.
It really doesn't, and they don't offer any answer to the fact that they ARE forcing those outcomes on kids against their consent and for arbitrary reasons, all told.

You don't offer an effective argument and neither does the UK court, when the evidence vastly shows (4% detransition rate among minors) that to be a lie. This was a fact posted on my first post to the thread, and has been ignored repeatedly.

The evidence says this is one of the most likely situations any child is capable of presenting informed consent for.

More kids appreciate the results of their selection of secondary sex characteristics than any other thing, choice or no.

Mix this in with the absolutely traumatic shit-show when autistic people are handled in ways against their consent, and the fact that autistic people tend to have gender issues, and maybe you might come to appreciate the depth of trauma this causes when mixed with effects to your whole body.

Being able to actually select the pathway there is everything for later satisfaction for an autistic person.

And if Chris or the UK assholes believed this, they wouldn't support intervention for those born without gonads. Guess what? They support intervention for people without gonads.
 
Why do you keep coming back to this crank and shitheel?
Well the high court ruling was news to me. I think it makes his case better.
It really doesn't,
I thought a person's sign based on a court ruling is better than a sign based on an opinion that he came up with himself...
and they don't offer any answer to the fact that they ARE forcing those outcomes on kids against their consent and for arbitrary reasons, all told.

You don't offer an effective argument
It might be near impossible to give you an effective argument. Perhaps none exist.
And if Chris or the UK assholes believed this, they wouldn't support intervention for those born without gonads. Guess what? They support intervention for people without gonads.
Maybe they don't consider people without gonads to be currently male or female like the others?
BTW I found some interesting things in his latest video:

He said:
"I've been doing this for 4 and a half years"
"You're about the 40,000th person I've had this conversation with".

Chris says to the guy to ask AI "are children being sterilized with puberty blocking drugs and cross sex hormones?"

He also says "if we walk into the gender clinic at the children's hospital here in Sydney" - so Chris seems very familiar with what's going on.

bilby says things like "his crusade to tell strangers that they must conform to his opinions"

But at 3:30 Chris seems to give up and then starts to have a conversation with his female assistant.

I guess it can be frustrating to other people here for me to continue to be interested in what Chris has to say or talk about his website. I think I kind of have an addiction to this - perhaps as a form of procrastination from other things I should be doing. That Professor Dave video was relevant to this though and I think it basically answers the question about being in the "wrong body".
 
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I thought a person's sign based on a court ruling is better than a sign based on an opinion that he came up with himself..
No, or isn't, and never has been. Look at the recent SCOTUS.

No, unless you provided actual reasons for supporting said court ruling, it is cherry picking opinion rather than being reasonable. Actually assess reasons or please kindly fuck off at this point.

We are here to have a real discussion and your thread is quickly evolving towards JAQing levels.

It might be near impossible to give you an effective argument. Perhaps none exist.
But nonetheless you must find one if you wish to argue against me here.

Chris says to the guy to ask <a loaded question>
There's that loaded question again. It's a JAQ if ever I saw one.

Kids aren't "being sterilized" in those clinics. They are being given chemicals that wear off, at their request, until they request to cease those chemicals.

He has literally NO right to concern himself with the fertility effects when they are fully briefed for years on what those are.

You don't have any right to insist on the fertility of others... Especially when they are absolutely being subjected to sexual abuse and torture at the hands of SMEG's sponsored child torture and sex abuse camps.
 
I thought a person's sign based on a court ruling is better than a sign based on an opinion that he came up with himself..
No, or isn't, and never has been. Look at the recent SCOTUS.
"Never has been"? So a sign based on a random SCOTUS ruling isn't better than a sign that is based on someone's opinion based on their version of a flat earth theory? Or something they thought up during a psychotic break from reality? As you know the SCOTUS has 9 judges and I guess at least 5 judges need to agree on it...
No, unless you provided actual reasons for supporting said court ruling, it is cherry picking opinion rather than being reasonable. Actually assess reasons or please kindly fuck off at this point.
Well I just skim-read Chris's web page about it:
It would take me a long time to try and find reasons that are better than that...
We are here to have a real discussion and your thread is quickly evolving towards JAQing levels.
I don't think I was asking many questions.
It might be near impossible to give you an effective argument. Perhaps none exist.
But nonetheless you must find one if you wish to argue against me here.
To give you an effective argument might require me to be as knowledgeable on the topic as you - or something like that.
Chris says to the guy to ask <a loaded question>
There's that loaded question again. It's a JAQ if ever I saw one.

Kids aren't "being sterilized" in those clinics. They are being given chemicals that wear off, at their request, until they request to cease those chemicals.

He has literally NO right to concern himself with the fertility effects when they are fully briefed for years on what those are.

You don't have any right to insist on the fertility of others... Especially when they are absolutely being subjected to sexual abuse and torture at the hands of SMEG's sponsored child torture and sex abuse camps.
Well despite all that the High Court still made a ruling about it. BTW I added a bit to the end of my previous post.
 
So a sign based on a random SCOTUS ruling isn't better than a sign that is based on someone's opinion based on their version of a flat earth theory?
Nope, it's argument from authority rather than argument with an argument.

If it's not argument from actual facts, it's lies.

To give you an effective argument might require me to be as knowledgeable on the topic as you
No, I expect it would require for contradictions to exist in the universe, because when someone is right, that's how hard it would be to make a effective argument against them.

I pick whichever side because i can't find fault with it.

This isn't about social dick measuring, this is about kids being abused by that jackhole and his compatriots.

It would just be so refreshing if instead of people giving a fresh consideration to this dead horse of an idea every time a new voice appears to parrot it, they just made the connection "the last ten times people have said this, they were full of shit and there was a 100 page argument where it was repeatedly flogged to death" and say "this bullshit again? I need to find better sources of news..."

Literally every time you see it, you should question the people who brought it to you and the rest of their agenda.

It has been disproven too many times for charity at this point.
 
You are aware that it what is in the child;s best interest may not always be what the parents want.

I think transitioning to another gender is a serious business that should be taken seriously by everyone involved - especially medical professionals.
So a 13 or even 12 year old girl getting mastectomies is in their best interest? Apparently some regret it and it isn’t possible for their breasts to produce milk again.
"Some regret" a lot of medical decisions; nearly everyone who undergoes chemotherapy regrets it at some point. Should we ban chemotherapy for minors?
False equivalence. One is a potentially life saving procedure, the other is a choice by parents to quite possibly alter the child forever before the kid has any idea of who they are. This goes for all kids, btw.

When my sister was 5 she said she wanted to be a boy because she had two older brothers.

When I was around 5 I told my mom girls were gross and that I was going to marry a boy.

My youngest told me she thought she was gay, when she was 13 and wanted to change her name to Alaska. I was supportive of her stated lesbianism, but I sure as hell didn't let her change her name. I told her she could do it when she was 18 if she wanted. By the time she was 18 she dating boys and the idea of changing her name was long forgotten.

The common thread here is that by the time adulthood was reached, none of what we said as children was what we wanted when we had the bare minimum of maturity to introspect.

Hell, adults well into their 30s oftentimes don't know who they are.

Leave the kids alone. When they're old enough to decide if they want to through X process then it'll be their right to make the decision.

Finally, why are these young people not encouraged to accept who they are rather than going through a procedure they can never undo? What if a kid said he had an amputee fetish, would any sane person hand him an axe, show them to a tree stump, and then support them as they chopped off their own hand?
 
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I thought a person's sign based on a court ruling is better than a sign based on an opinion that he came up with himself..
No, or isn't, and never has been. Look at the recent SCOTUS.
So a sign based on a random SCOTUS ruling isn't better than a sign that is based on someone's opinion based on their version of a flat earth theory?
Nope, it's argument from authority rather than argument with an argument.

If it's not argument from actual facts, it's lies.
So a person's sign based on SCOTUS rulings isn't more likely to be based on facts (or close to the facts) than a sign based on a psychotic person's beliefs about aliens and demons? (which is an example of a opinion they came up with themselves)
To give you an effective argument might require me to be as knowledgeable on the topic as you
No, I expect it would require for contradictions to exist in the universe, because when someone is right, that's how hard it would be to make a effective argument against them.
Ok maybe you're objectively right but I still find Chris (and his female friend sometimes) and their latest hijinks to be interesting.
 
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You are aware that it what is in the child;s best interest may not always be what the parents want.

I think transitioning to another gender is a serious business that should be taken seriously by everyone involved - especially medical professionals.
So a 13 or even 12 year old girl getting mastectomies is in their best interest? Apparently some regret it and it isn’t possible for their breasts to produce milk again.
"Some regret" a lot of medical decisions; nearly everyone who undergoes chemotherapy regrets it at some point. Should we ban chemotherapy for minors?
False equivalence. One is a potentially life saving procedure, the other is a choice by parents to quite possibly alter the child forever before the kid has any idea of who they are. This goes for all kids, btw.

When my sister was 5 she said she wanted to be a boy because she had two older brothers.

When I was around 5 I told my mom girls were gross and that I was going to marry a boy.

My youngest told me she thought she was gay, when she was 13 and wanted to change her name to Alaska. I was supportive of her stated lesbianism, but I sure as hell didn't let her change her name. I told her she could do it when she was 18 if she wanted. By the time she was 18 she dating boys and the idea of changing her name was long forgotten.

The common thread here is that by the time adulthood was reached, none of what we said as children was what we wanted when we had the bare minimum of maturity to introspect.

Hell, adults well into their 30s oftentimes don't know who they are.

Leave the kids alone. When they're old enough to decide if they want to through X process then it'll be their right to make the decision.

Finally, why are these young people not encouraged to accept who they are rather than going through a procedure they can never undo? What if a kid said he had an amputee fetish, would any sane person hand him an axe, show them to a tree stump, and then support them as they chopped off their own hand?
Sorry, but this is pure ignorance on what is going on here. It's not about a kid being whimsy and thinking "I want to try being a boy or girl" and then suddenly they get pumped full of chemicals and have parts chopped of. These are the right wing lies and anyone who cares about truth should consider anyone advancing an argument like that to be evil (like the Chris guy the OP is so fond of posting). On par with a KKK member and dismissed just as quickly.

We are talking about those specifically that have a diagnosed condition called gender dysphoria. Being born a girl and wanting to be or act like a boy is not sufficient to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria, and fuck anyone who claims otherwise.

Gender dysphoria applies to individuals experiencing a _strong_ and _persistent_ (at least 6 months or more) incongruence between their birth sex and their experienced/expressed gender, manifesting in various ways.

More importantly, the condition must also be associated with clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

In other words, this individual is suffering active and regular harm in their lives as a result of their gender dysphoria.

You can have a boy feeling and wanting to act like a girl, play with dolls, put on girls clothing, etc and not be suffering strong and persistent psychological distress and impairment in their lives. These kids do not have gender dysphoria, and are not the kids we are talking about here receiving the kind of medical care you apparently object to.

It takes a pretty cruel and heartless individual, as a guardian or, even worse, as an uninterested third party, to then come in to say any child suffering this harm should not get evidence based medical care to treat the harm. In fact we need to pass laws to ban the practice.

When you say "leave the kids alone", you are effectively saying "Sorry kid, just shut up and deal with your psychological pain and life impairment. You may only have the medical treatments I personally approve of. I don't give a shit if the treatment works or not and that there may be more effective treatments for your situation. That doesn't matter because you can't consent (or whatever other reason you want to insert here)."

Not only that, but it is almost certainly 100% hypocritical, as you would not take this position on basically any other kind of medical care for a child that happens routinely and you don't even bat an eye, which would be the same with respect to all the essential elements you object to (possible side effects, irreversible change, lack of ability to consent, chance of later regret). Jarhyn and I have both brought up multiple examples of this, and not a single person said they were against medical care in those cases. So then the question becomes, what is the underlying reason for this hypocrisy?
 
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I have still been watching Chris's videos like this:

It talks about this:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opin...t-female-inmate-in-women-s-prison/ar-AA1tY4rd
and Chris said they made him leave because they were feeling "unsafe".

But this related story is perhaps even worse:
Women who allege they were raped in a California prison by a biological male claiming to be transgender will be compelled to refer to the defendant using she/her pronouns, a Madera County judge ruled last week, further complicating a case centered on a crime that was emboldened from the outset by the government.

Tremaine Carroll allegedly raped multiple inmates while at Central California Women's Facility in Chowchilla after securing placement there by self-identifying as transgender. The Transgender Respect, Agency and Dignity Act, which took effect in January 2021, allows California inmates to be placed in a facility corresponding with the sex they say they are. Under the law, a prisoner need not be on hormones, have had surgery, or undergo a psychological evaluation to be approved. The government considers their testimony sufficient.
Maybe people here would have a problem with the news source which talks about "free minds".

I wonder if people here would have any problems with the story.
 
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So a person's sign based on SCOTUS rulings isn't more likely to be based on facts (or close to the facts) than a sign based on a psychotic person's beliefs about aliens and demons? (which is an example of a opinion they came up with themselves)
First off, you are loading your question the same way as OOP did, so shame on you.

Second off, NO, lacking their actual arguments, they aren't more likely to be more accurate than a homeless drifter with a sign.

We literally have a supreme Court in the US where we have people more crazy than the average homeless drifter making conspiracy theories wilder than the average homeless drifter to support legal theories as wild as the ones demanded by the average homeless drifter.

All arguments must be supported and "legal" arguments tend to be the most suspect of all.

These people are people placed to serve a political agenda and their opinions are worse than suspect.

but I still find Chris (and his female friend sometimes) and their latest hijinks to be interesting
And this is why we are doomed. Interesting lies are getting more pull than boring truth.
 
But this related story is perhaps even worse:
Women who allege they were raped in a California prison by a biological male claiming to be transgender will be compelled to refer to the defendant using she/her pronouns, a Madera County judge ruled last week, further complicating a case centered on a crime that was emboldened from the outset by the government.

Tremaine Carroll allegedly raped multiple inmates while at Central California Women's Facility in Chowchilla after securing placement there by self-identifying as transgender. The Transgender Respect, Agency and Dignity Act, which took effect in January 2021, allows California inmates to be placed in a facility corresponding with the sex they say they are. Under the law, a prisoner need not be on hormones, have had surgery, or undergo a psychological evaluation to be approved. The government considers their testimony sufficient.
Maybe people here would have a problem with the news source which talks about "free minds".

I wonder if people here would have any problems with the story.
What do you mean by "have any problems with" it?

I'm sure most people object to rape and other violence in prisons, whether committed by prison staff or other inmates. I'm sure most people want just and fair trials when people are accused of committing crimes. I know that some people find it very hard to hold to the 'innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt' standard, especially when the accused is a member of a minority or scorned demographic, but most will at least try to pay it lip service.

I suppose you're wondering how many people here have a problem with a transwoman being referred to as 'she' in court. I don't have a problem with it but YMMV.
 
Jesus fuck, @excreationist, we have had this thread how many times? You are literally doing the carousel through all the subjects every one of these threads touches as if you never even fucking paid attention.

I don't see what's so hard to realize about "women rape women too, and it's always bad when it happens".

I wonder what the per capita instance of rape by women with penises in prison vs women who don't have penises.

I am on the verge of shaming your ignorance so as to say "you have not done even the most basic prerequisite study of the literature and debate, why the fuck are you spouting off on this".

Chris is literally THE worst source for any of these topics. Maybe you could do just as bad asking one of the other folks who listen to the likes of Chris? It's hard to say.

Seriously, it's like watching Ken Ham discuss evolution issues, and it's fucking exhausting trying to point this out, as is the intent.

Instead of you getting properly ANGRY over having been LIED to, you're getting progressively more annoyed at me telling you to drop this joker or treat him as "the door that always lies".
 
Why do you keep coming back to this crank and shitheel?
Well the high court ruling was news to me. I think it makes his case better.
It really doesn't,
I thought a person's sign based on a court ruling is better than a sign based on an opinion that he came up with himself...
and they don't offer any answer to the fact that they ARE forcing those outcomes on kids against their consent and for arbitrary reasons, all told.

You don't offer an effective argument
It might be near impossible to give you an effective argument. Perhaps none exist.
And if Chris or the UK assholes believed this, they wouldn't support intervention for those born without gonads. Guess what? They support intervention for people without gonads.
Maybe they don't consider people without gonads to be currently male or female like the others?
BTW I found some interesting things in his latest video:

He said:
"I've been doing this for 4 and a half years"
"You're about the 40,000th person I've had this conversation with".

Chris says to the guy to ask AI "are children being sterilized with puberty blocking drugs and cross sex hormones?"

How does any sex change operation sterilize a child? There's literally nothing preventing them from reproducing when they're adults. Just conspiracy BS. Also AI will give different answers depending on what prompt is given.
 
You are aware that it what is in the child;s best interest may not always be what the parents want.

I think transitioning to another gender is a serious business that should be taken seriously by everyone involved - especially medical professionals.
So a 13 or even 12 year old girl getting mastectomies is in their best interest? Apparently some regret it and it isn’t possible for their breasts to produce milk again.
"Some regret" a lot of medical decisions; nearly everyone who undergoes chemotherapy regrets it at some point. Should we ban chemotherapy for minors?
False equivalence. One is a potentially life saving procedure, the other is a choice by parents to quite possibly alter the child forever before the kid has any idea of who they are. This goes for all kids, btw.

When my sister was 5 she said she wanted to be a boy because she had two older brothers.

When I was around 5 I told my mom girls were gross and that I was going to marry a boy.

My youngest told me she thought she was gay, when she was 13 and wanted to change her name to Alaska. I was supportive of her stated lesbianism, but I sure as hell didn't let her change her name. I told her she could do it when she was 18 if she wanted. By the time she was 18 she dating boys and the idea of changing her name was long forgotten.

The common thread here is that by the time adulthood was reached, none of what we said as children was what we wanted when we had the bare minimum of maturity to introspect.
But aren't we talking about people that have exhibited this behavior for years or most of their life. I detest the argument of 'well we all have phases' or 'I once said...'

It warns people of not taking what children say at face value, as if we needed to be told children are immature.

It makes people who are adjacent to a case of gender dysphsoria appear stupid. But don't you know that when I was 6 I said...?

How we manage this among minors is complicated both by ignorance and the generalized problems that most of a person's biology is fixed and not readily adjustable. Medications and their consequences are also not entirely known.

But we won't get the science and treatment where it needa until people accept gender dysphoria exists and stop treating other people like idiots.
 
I have still been watching Chris's videos like this:

It talks about this:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opin...t-female-inmate-in-women-s-prison/ar-AA1tY4rd
and Chris said they made him leave because they were feeling "unsafe".

But this related story is perhaps even worse:
Women who allege they were raped in a California prison by a biological male claiming to be transgender will be compelled to refer to the defendant using she/her pronouns, a Madera County judge ruled last week, further complicating a case centered on a crime that was emboldened from the outset by the government.

Tremaine Carroll allegedly raped multiple inmates while at Central California Women's Facility in Chowchilla after securing placement there by self-identifying as transgender. The Transgender Respect, Agency and Dignity Act, which took effect in January 2021, allows California inmates to be placed in a facility corresponding with the sex they say they are. Under the law, a prisoner need not be on hormones, have had surgery, or undergo a psychological evaluation to be approved. The government considers their testimony sufficient.
Maybe people here would have a problem with the news source which talks about "free minds".

I wonder if people here would have any problems with the story.

Who here at this board do you think is okay with rape?
 
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