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Legal definition of woman is based on biological sex, UK supreme court rules

Really? The people I used to work with were all adults and would ignore such juvenile prattle. Not to mention if you don't want your stuff commented on then don't comment about others.
Must have been nice spending your entire working life in a place like that.

I spent a few years in more blue collar environments. Factories. Believe me when I say, I would not want to have been a woman in one of those places if they were not allowed to decide who gets in the restroom and who doesn't. And get backup from the management.
Tom
 
And giving service providers the right to provide that service however they wish has proved problematic in the past.

“No Irish. No blacks. No dogs.”
But you want them to be able to say "no trans".

As you say, history has said that such things are bad.
 
Not at all.

Just that some spaces and services should be single sex, as in biological sex.
 
If anyone, it's folks like you who think that those dumb broads need to get over their feelings and concerns.
And you accuse me of putting words in people's mouths! You need to wash yours out with soap, because that is an unashamed lie. I have never said anything remotely like that, and I never would.
You have consistently dismissed the concerns of real women who don't want a male in the restroom with them.
Tom
You have consistently dismissed the concerns of real whites who don't want a black in the restroom with them.

(Yeah, I know, not you personally. I'm just pointing out the equivalent.)
That's not equivalent at all.

Here's one of many reasons. There was no equivalent facility in the next room, back in the bad old days of "separate but equal". From schools to lunch counters to buses to housing to voting booths (the list is kinda endless) there was separate, but there was no equal. Modern males demanding entrance to the Women's restroom have a nearly identical option in the room right next door, they just don't want it.

They want special rights, being men and all...
Tom
 
It skeeved me out. I was trying to imagine my own former office workplace filled with young men and women who had secret crushes, and office rumor mills constantly churning out gossip. The idea of sitting in a stall next to the hot girl and listening to her tooting out a bunch of noisy, noxious sounds and smells (or me doing the same to her) was unbecoming. Not to mention all the subsequent office gossip about which chick (or guy) has the smelliest shit or the noisiest farts. Its a situation that I could see getting really disruptive and out of hand. It would definitely keep HR busy though.
Really? The people I used to work with were all adults and would ignore such juvenile prattle. Not to mention if you don't want your stuff commented on then don't comment about others.
Exactly. What's the issue? And there are plenty of trailheads with groups of adjoining outhouses. How are they any different than bathroom stalls? And they're never gendered.

And how about this one (yes, this real. It's nowhere near me, though):
Washington-Wonderland-Trail-Drop-Toilet-750x500.jpg
 
I've fucked in places more public than that.

Wanna hear some stories from my long and checkered past?
Tom
 
I don’t know what you’re suggesting for sports. What standards need to be agreed?
Exactly who qualifies as "female".

Those who never underwent male puberty are unquestionably equal to females in competition.
 
Biological females, who aren’t doping.

Why “unquestionably”?

The evidence is there’s male advantage before puberty.
 
If anyone, it's folks like you who think that those dumb broads need to get over their feelings and concerns.
And you accuse me of putting words in people's mouths! You need to wash yours out with soap, because that is an unashamed lie. I have never said anything remotely like that, and I never would.
You have consistently dismissed the concerns of real women who don't want a male in the restroom with them.
Tom
You have consistently dismissed the concerns of real whites who don't want a black in the restroom with them.

(Yeah, I know, not you personally. I'm just pointing out the equivalent.)
That's not equivalent at all.

Here's one of many reasons. There was no equivalent facility in the next room, back in the bad old days of "separate but equal". From schools to lunch counters to buses to housing to voting booths (the list is kinda endless) there was separate, but there was no equal. Modern males demanding entrance to the Women's restroom have a nearly identical option in the room right next door, they just don't want it.

They want special rights, being men and all...
Tom
Ignoring that “nearly identical” is not “equal”, your argument fails on a more substantial level.

Transwomen who have completed the transformation are not men. You can argue about whether they are male or not, but they are not men. They may not be welcome or safe in mens restrooms.
 
Ignoring that “nearly identical” is not “equal”, your argument fails on a more substantial level.
My argument is that female women have the right to decide who they want in a restroom with them.

Why do you think that you dudes have any say in the matter?

Fuck you.
Tom

ETA ~ Said in my large male voice. Women have rights too and I don't care if other dudes think that they are being unreasonable.~
 
.
Transwomen who have completed the transformation are not men.
You’ve yet to provide the checklist of the changes required to complete “the transformation”.

And trans women are, without any shadow of a doubt, biologically male.
 
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Transwomen who have completed the transformation are not men. You can argue about whether they are male or not, but they are not men. They may not be welcome or safe in mens restrooms.
So you’re saying some males, those who have “completed the transformation”, should be allowed into female spaces.

But not all males.

So what’s the practical basis for granting, or denying, a male person’s access to a female space?
 
Really? The people I used to work with were all adults and would ignore such juvenile prattle. Not to mention if you don't want your stuff commented on then don't comment about others.
Must have been nice spending your entire working life in a place like that.

I spent a few years in more blue collar environments. Factories. Believe me when I say, I would not want to have been a woman in one of those places if they were not allowed to decide who gets in the restroom and who doesn't. And get backup from the management.
Tom
Blue collar workers are not known for their couth.
 
Really? The people I used to work with were all adults and would ignore such juvenile prattle. Not to mention if you don't want your stuff commented on then don't comment about others.
Must have been nice spending your entire working life in a place like that.

I spent a few years in more blue collar environments. Factories. Believe me when I say, I would not want to have been a woman in one of those places if they were not allowed to decide who gets in the restroom and who doesn't. And get backup from the management.
Tom
Yep. Every co-ed workplace seems to have one or two (or more) creepy dudes, that the ladies try to steer clear of. These creeps leer, make crude jokes and gestures, stare at their breasts rather than looking them in the eye, are "handsy", harass for dates, etc. I can think of a number I have encountered over the years. The last thing any sane woman would want to do is sit in the bathroom stall next to one of these workplace creepos.
 
Ignoring that “nearly identical” is not “equal”, your argument fails on a more substantial level.
My argument is that female women have the right to decide who they want in a restroom with them.

Why do you think that you dudes have any say in the matter?

Fuck you.
Tom

ETA ~ Said in my large male voice. Women have rights too and I don't care if other dudes think that they are being unreasonable.~
Hard to argue with brilliant analysis that literally allows females to discriminate on any basis.
 
Transwomen who have completed the transformation are not men. You can argue about whether they are male or not, but they are not men. They may not be welcome or safe in mens restrooms.
So you’re saying some males, those who have “completed the transformation”, should be allowed into female spaces.

But not all males.
No, pointing out Tom’s argument is too simplistic.
 
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So where the hell do you see anyone advocating the government not "allow" you to identify any way you damn well please?
You've not read the ruling the rest of us are discussing, I take it? It makes the basis on which the law is executed the government's opinion as to a person's biological sex.
 
I choose freedom, and always will. To that ideology, I am very really loyal,
Thank you, Mr. "They are free to do as they like within their congregations or in their kitchens, but not in a public sociology class.". Thank you, Mr. "You cannot teach those beliefs as facts.".
Also true. You want to start a private school that teaches your wacky religion, you're free to do so, but public schools are the purview of the public, and the responsibility of scholars.
And scholars are a law unto themselves individually, not a law unto themselves collectively with a collective responsibility to police one another's speech. It's called "academic freedom"; the SCOTUS has ruled that the 1st Amendment protects it. Scholars are allowed to teach their own beliefs as facts even when you or the majority of other scholars disagree with them. Some other professor's public sociology class is not your private property; neither is it your ideological team's public property. It's the property of the public, and the public has elected to fund colleges where academic freedom is practiced instead of funding madrassas where a ruling class's orthodoxy is preached without challenge from dissidents.

Further, you calling Emily's opinion that H. sapiens lacks true hermaphrodites a "wacky religion" is ludicrous -- it takes a lot more than simple disagreement to make something a religion. She makes substantive arguments for her opinion, and she doesn't promote it with ad hominems or treat it as a loyalty oath defining in-group and out-group -- unlike some of the nonsense I've seen you advocate: nonsense that's propounded as if it were fact in some professor's classroom or other in pretty much every public college in America. So if you think she's wrong, well, you're free to tell your own public sociology class why she's wrong.

Your blatant hypocrisy aside, the fact that you preached that scholars ought not to be allowed to teach the opinion that H. sapiens lacks "true hermaphrodites" in a public sociology class establishes that you do not, in point of fact, always choose freedom. You're loyal to the ideology that academics should be free to agree with you.

(* Incidentally, you used the phrase "public schools". If you meant that to suggest your dispute with Emily was about K-12 classrooms, it wasn't. What government employees get to say to a government-supplied captive audience of children is a different matter from what they get to say to 18-and-up volunteers.)

I will be damned before I let the government define how I am "allowed" to identify or on what terms.
So where the hell do you see anyone advocating the government not "allow" you to identify any way you damn well please?
You've not read the ruling the rest of us are discussing, I take it? It makes the basis on which the law is executed the government's opinion as to a person's biological sex.
So what? How the bejesus do you figure "If you hire that transwoman onto your board of directors, we the government will not count that appointment toward your 50%-women hiring quota. You'll have to hire another biological woman too." has the mystical power to stop that person from identifying as female?
 
And scholars are a law unto themselves individually, not a law unto themselves collectively with a collective responsibility to police one another's speech. It's called "academic freedom"; the SCOTUS has ruled that the 1st Amendment protects it. Scholars are allowed to teach their own beliefs as facts even when you or the majority of other scholars disagree with them. Some other professor's public sociology class is not your private property; neither is it your ideological team's public property. It's the property of the public, and the public has elected to fund colleges where academic freedom is practiced instead of funding madrassas where a ruling class's orthodoxy is preached without challenge from dissidents.
Who said otherwise? I have always been a firm defender of academic freedom, and I know very few professors who would disagree with anything you write here. I certainly do not. Teaching pseudoscience is morally wrong, but I said nothing about censoring it. Despite what your right wing buddies would have you believe, simply disagreeing with someone is not "censoring" or "canceling" them.

Your blatant hypocrisy aside, the fact that you preached that scholars ought not to be allowed to teach the opinion that H. sapiens lacks "true hermaphrodites" in a public sociology class establishes that you do not, in point of fact, always choose freedom. You're loyal to the ideology that academics should be free to agree with you.
There is a HUGE difference between "ought not" and "ought not be allowed". If Emily and Seanie understand that distinction, we'd have nothing to discuss in this thread.

So what? How the bejesus do you figure "If you hire that transwoman onto your board of directors, we the government will not count that appointment toward your 50%-women hiring quota. You'll have to hire another biological woman too." has the mystical power to stop that person from identifying as female?
No, it has legal power. Do you seriously not understand the difference between mysticism and the law?
 
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