Legal definition of woman is based on biological sex, UK supreme court rules

[seanie]

This is pure ideology, and does not reflect the real sciences of human biology or sociology in any way. Seanie knows full well that this statement contradicts the perspective of the vast majority of scientists, or at least has been told this many times and refuses to believe it no matter how much evidence is presented to them.

No, it’s reality.

And It’s pretty obvious too.

 

[TomC]

8bB;

This is pure ideology, and does not reflect the real sciences of human biology or sociology in any way. Seanie knows full well that this statement contradicts the perspective of the vast majority of scientists, or at least has been told this many times and refuses to believe it no matter how much evidence is presented to them.

No, it’s reality.

And It’s pretty obvious too.

But it doesn't suit his ideology so he just can't see it.
He's like a creationist Christian, Politesse just cannot see anything that interferes with what he wants to believe.
Tom

 

[seanie]

In 99.98% of cases, a baby’s sex is absolutely unambiguous.

The 0.02% are still male or female.

What has this to do with an adult male, who’s fathered children, who decides he’s actually a woman?

 

[seanie]

Say there was someone born male, no exceptionally rare chromosomal differences, raised as male, went through male puberty, married to a woman for 23 years, fathered two children, and then at the age of 54 “transitions” to being a woman?

What makes that person a “woman”?

 

[Politesse]

8bB;

This is pure ideology, and does not reflect the real sciences of human biology or sociology in any way. Seanie knows full well that this statement contradicts the perspective of the vast majority of scientists, or at least has been told this many times and refuses to believe it no matter how much evidence is presented to them.

No, it’s reality.

And It’s pretty obvious too.

But it doesn't suit his ideology so he just can't see it.
He's like a creationist Christian, Politesse just cannot see anything that interferes with what he wants to believe.
Tom

The fuck? What ideology? The legitimacy of science? If so, yes.

 

[seanie]

The position that someone’s sex is an ineffable mystery is ideological horseshit.

It’s very straightforward 99.98% of the time.

 

[TomC]

8bB;

This is pure ideology, and does not reflect the real sciences of human biology or sociology in any way. Seanie knows full well that this statement contradicts the perspective of the vast majority of scientists, or at least has been told this many times and refuses to believe it no matter how much evidence is presented to them.

No, it’s reality.

And It’s pretty obvious too.

But it doesn't suit his ideology so he just can't see it.
He's like a creationist Christian, Politesse just cannot see anything that interferes with what he wants to believe.
Tom

The fuck? What ideology? The legitimacy of science? If so, yes.

The ideology where you decide who women are allowed to be comfortable around. Where you decide what is fair in competitive sports leagues.

Don't give me this crap about the existence of people who have congenital abnormalities and expect that to give any dude who demands access to any women's spaces what they want. I'm not buying it.
Tom

 

[Politesse]

And even if that weren’t the case, it has no bearing at all upon the question of whether people who are unambiguously biologically male, with no exceptionally rare chromosomal conditions, should be allowed into female only spaces because they really, really, really want to.

I have no doubt whatsoever that this much is true. Your opinion on trans people in gyms has absolutely nothing to do with the science of intersex chromosomal expression. That is your emotions talking, and nothing any scientist could say on the matter would ever change your mind. Correct? Or is there aome fact that, if discovered and somehow communicated to you, would make you okay with trans people using public spaces? I think not.

The law we're discussing, however, absolutely does concern the real science of sex and sex expression, and most people affected by it aren't trans at all. Every single UK citizen regardless of their status has been redefined and restricted by the overreach of this ruling.

 

[Politesse]

Don't give me this crap about the existence of people who have congenital abnormalities and expect that to give any dude who demands access to any women's spaces what they want. I'm not buying it.

It will be easy not to "give you that crap", since I'm not selling what you say you aren't buying. I never said anything like that.

 

[Politesse]

In 99.98% of cases, a baby’s sex is absolutely unambiguous.

The 0.02% are still male or female.

What are you citing? Mystic revelation?

 

[seanie]

I have no doubt whatsoever that this much is true. Your opinion on trans people in gyms has absolutely nothing to do with the science of intersex chromosomal expression. That is your emotions talking, and nothing any scientist could say on the matter would ever change your mind. Correct? Or is there aome fact that, if discovered and somehow communicated to you, would make you okay with trans people using public spaces? I think not.

The law we're discussing, however, absolutely does concern the real science of sex and sex expression, and most people affected by it aren't trans at all. Every single UK citizen regardless of their status has been redefined and restricted by the overreach of this ruling.

DSD conditions have nothing at all to do with it.

You’re advocating for any male to access female only spaces on their say so.

And every single person is still male or female, regardless of how any court rules.

Reality supercedes law.

 

[TomC]

Don't give me this crap about the existence of people who have congenital abnormalities and expect that to give any dude who demands access to any women's spaces what they want. I'm not buying it.

It will be easy not to "give you that crap", since I'm not selling what you say you aren't buying. I never said anything like that.

Do you think that demonstrably male people, here in the USA, are entitled to use the women's restroom in public spaces?
I don't.

Allowed is not the same as entitled.
They are allowed, mostly. But there's no entitlements, like female women have.
Tom

 

[seanie]

It’s not about “expression”. It’s about a person’s sex.

Which is a material fact, and sometimes matters.

 

[Politesse]

Don't give me this crap about the existence of people who have congenital abnormalities and expect that to give any dude who demands access to any women's spaces what they want. I'm not buying it.

It will be easy not to "give you that crap", since I'm not selling what you say you aren't buying. I never said anything like that.

Do you think that demonstrably male people, here in the USA, are entitled to use the women's restroom in public spaces?
I don't.

Allowed is not the same as entitled.
They are allowed, mostly. But there's no entitlements, like female women have.
Tom

No, no one has any "entitlements" concerning restrooms in the United States, nor should they.

Whereas in Scotland, they did try to create just such a nest of entitlements, and we see the results in this thread: a massive fucking mess that just keeps getting deeper.

 

[Politesse]

Reality supercedes law.

You think your delusions are reality, but saying something emphatically and insulting anyone who disagrees with you does not make it reality.

 

[TomC]

Reality supercedes law.

You think your delusions are reality, but saying something emphatically and insulting anyone who disagrees with you does not make it reality.

You might repeat that to yourself in a mirror a few times each night for a few years.
Tom

 

[seanie]

Say there was someone born male, no exceptionally rare chromosomal differences, raised as male, went through male puberty, married to a woman for 23 years, fathered two children, and then at the age of 54 “transitions” to being a woman?

What makes that person a “woman”?

 

[Politesse]

No, no one has any "entitlements" concerning restrooms in the United States, nor should they.

You are so full of shit your eyes must be brown.

When I am a paying customer at the grocery store I am fully entitled to a restroom to get a pee! Or the Walmart, or nearly every public place. They are all required by law to have restrooms. California is not a different country, your public venues are also required to have restrooms.

Don't tell me that I am not entitled to a place to pee in any public venue. I am! And so is everyone else. That's not the same as an entitlement to pee anywhere I want, or entitled to use any restroom I want. But I am legally entitled to a restroom.
Tom

You are not, in fact. I don't know where you got the idea that you are. Nor would your proposed law make it any more or less acceptable to discriminate specifically against trans or intersex persons in the execution of said law. If there were indeed a federal law that required restrooms be generally available, though there is not, it would have to apply to everyone. OSHA does require bathrooms for employees, that much is true. And there are some other similar cases. Parents and other carers must make them available to their wards somehow, for instance. But I didn't mention those cases, since they obviously don't relate to the case we are discussing in this thread.

 

[Politesse]

The position that someone’s sex is an ineffable mystery is ideological horseshit.

It’s very straightforward 99.98% of the time.

There's that completely imagined number again...

 

[seanie]

Don't give me this crap about the existence of people who have congenital abnormalities and expect that to give any dude who demands access to any women's spaces what they want. I'm not buying it.

It will be easy not to "give you that crap", since I'm not selling what you say you aren't buying. I never said anything like that.

Do you think that demonstrably male people, here in the USA, are entitled to use the women's restroom in public spaces?
I don't.

Allowed is not the same as entitled.
They are allowed, mostly. But there's no entitlements, like female women have.
Tom

No, no one has any "entitlements" concerning restrooms in the United States, nor should they.

Whereas in Scotland, they did try to create just such a nest of entitlements, and we see the results in this thread: a massive fucking mess that just keeps getting deeper.

I’d be surprised if you could find Scotland on a map.

Because the recognition of the reality and importance of biological sex in some circumstances, is hardly a novel idea in Scotland. It’s how societies in general have operated, for good or ill, for human history.

You could argue it should never matter, but not convincingly, or you could argue where and when it does matter.

But denying the biological reality of sex is a losing argument.