Legal definition of woman is based on biological sex, UK supreme court rules

[Bomb#20]

This coming from the only admitted voyeur on the forum!

This post has been much discussed already, and it was mostly subjective opinion anyway, so I'll just draw attention to the two objective claims you made...

No, Emily, your victims certainly did not consent to be violated by you, let alone outed,

Emily did not out the men she was describing. This is not rocket science -- she did not supply enough identifying information for anyone to figure out which men she was referring to. You are making a blatantly false accusation; and I do not believe for a second that you did it innocently and just didn't know what it means to "out" someone.

misgendered,

Emily did not misgender the men she was describing. This is not rocket science -- "mis" is a prefix that means "wrongly", and Emily did not gender the men wrongly. She gendered them as male, and in point of fact they are of the male gender. That is gendering them rightly. The interminably-repeated canard that correctly stating someone's sex qualifies as "misgendering" provided the person identifies as the other sex is derived from equivocating "gender" with "gender identity". Equivocation is a fallacy -- one responsible for quite a few of gender ideology's counterfactual religious dogmas.

 

[seanie]

And what if the birth certificate is wrong? Billions of birth certificates, some are bound to be erroneous.

Someone inserted an unintended hyphen in my wife's naturalization certificate, simply assuming a hyphenated name when that was not the case. Official government document, wrong. And in times past birth certificates occasionally got destroyed. Think the reconstructions are anything like 100% accurate?

A birth certificate does not determine a person’s sex. It is however a very reliable guide. And should a question arise as to a person’s sex, that question can be resolved by a straightforward one off genetic test.

Because a person’s sex is an objective material reality, regardless of paperwork.

 

[Politesse]

This coming from the only admitted voyeur on the forum!

This post has been much discussed already, and it was mostly subjective opinion anyway, so I'll just draw attention to the two objective claims you made...

No, Emily, your victims certainly did not consent to be violated by you, let alone outed,

Emily did not out the men she was describing. This is not rocket science -- she did not supply enough identifying information for anyone to figure out which men she was referring to. You are making a blatantly false accusation; and I do not believe for a second that you did it innocently and just didn't know what it means to "out" someone.

misgendered,

Emily did not misgender the men she was describing. This is not rocket science -- "mis" is a prefix that means "wrongly", and Emily did not gender the men wrongly. She gendered them as male, and in point of fact they are of the male gender. That is gendering them rightly. The interminably-repeated canard that correctly stating someone's sex qualifies as "misgendering" provided the person identifies as the other sex is derived from equivocating "gender" with "gender identity". Equivocation is a fallacy -- one responsible for quite a few of gender ideology's counterfactual religious dogmas.

Do you also write on the internet about the crotches you've looked at in the bathroom lately? If not, why not, if there's nothing weird about doing so?

 

[TomC]

Do you also write on the internet about the crotches you've looked at in the bathroom lately? If not, why not, if there's nothing weird about doing so?

What's weird is you either being unable to answer those questions or pretending to be unable.
Those are both kinda weird, but the pretending makes sense since your ideological views are kinda weird.
Tom

 

[Toni]

I think you’re right about that but”risk=zero” is just unsupportable nonsense.

Then find some risk.

Because nobody's been able to show a sexual assault by a female-presenting person with a penis in a women's bathroom. Bugged me for a while that I couldn't find any data comparing offense rates--finally found out that was because there's nothing to compare.

Not completely true as I linked up thread a case where a high school student who wore dresses and used the girl’s bathroom raped a girl in the bathroom and had apparently assaulted a different girl in their previous high school. I don’t know if that is ‘female presenting’ enough for you?

As far as victims of sexual assault being traumatized by male appearing bodies in their dressing rooms: I have a lot of sympathy.

No one should have to worry about being safe in a restroom or locker room. No one.

 

[scombrid]

No non-bigoted person considers the rights of trans women to be "men's rights", nor would they accept such dubious aid in any case.

so they can engage in voyeurism and/or exhibitionism against unwilling women

No.

 

[scombrid]

By that logic I don't want certain men in the locker room with me either.

 

[Politesse]

Do you also write on the internet about the crotches you've looked at in the bathroom lately? If not, why not, if there's nothing weird about doing so?

What's weird is you either being unable to answer those questions or pretending to be unable.
Those are both kinda weird, but the pretending makes sense since your ideological views are kinda weird.
Tom

What do you mean? My answer to those questions is no. Unequivocally. I do not spy on people in the bathroom, or use their bodies as props in an ideological crusade. I do not do those things. No normal, decent person does those things.

 

[TomC]

By that logic I don't want certain men in the locker room with me either.

For any reason relevant to the point of this thread?
There's lots of guys I despise for various reasons. And being really out in a small Indiana community, I kinda watch out for gay bashers. Neither is relevant to the thread, though.
Tom

 

[TomC]

Do you also write on the internet about the crotches you've looked at in the bathroom lately? If not, why not, if there's nothing weird about doing so?

What's weird is you either being unable to answer those questions or pretending to be unable.
Those are both kinda weird, but the pretending makes sense since your ideological views are kinda weird.
Tom

What do you mean? My answer to those questions is no. Unequivocally. I do not spy on people in the bathroom, or use their bodies as props in an ideological crusade. I do not do those things. No normal, decent person does those things.

You were asking B20 about those things.
And lemme help you a bit with basic English.
"See", "notice", and "spy on" are generally different things for most of us.
Tom

 

[Politesse]

By that logic I don't want certain men in the locker room with me either.

For any reason relevant to the point of this thread?
There's lots of guys I despise for various reasons. And being really out in a small Indiana community, I kinda watch out for gay bashers. Neither is relevant to the thread, though.
Tom

Are you really so naive as to think gay bashers and trans bashers are different people? How? Do you not own a television? When Trump comes for us, he comes for all of us. Just because they target the weakest and most isolated queer communities first doesn't mean the rest of us are safe. The more he succeeds in turning us against each other, the more danger we are all in.

You really think when every trans person is closeted or in jail, the evangelicals are just going to sigh with relief that the threat is gone, and go back to their lives? No wild hunt for the next "enemy within" to scare everyone, svare up votes, scare up offering plate donations? Have you even met these people?

 

[laughing dog]

By that logic I don't want certain men in the locker room with me either.

For any reason relevant to the point of this thread?
There's lots of guys I despise for various reasons. And being really out in a small Indiana community, I kinda watch out for gay bashers. Neither is relevant to the thread, though.
Tom

If making people uncomfortable in a private intimate space a rationale for policy, it is.

And that need nothing to do with gay bashers.

 

[Politesse]

Do you also write on the internet about the crotches you've looked at in the bathroom lately? If not, why not, if there's nothing weird about doing so?

What's weird is you either being unable to answer those questions or pretending to be unable.
Those are both kinda weird, but the pretending makes sense since your ideological views are kinda weird.
Tom

What do you mean? My answer to those questions is no. Unequivocally. I do not spy on people in the bathroom, or use their bodies as props in an ideological crusade. I do not do those things. No normal, decent person does those things.

You were asking B20 about those things.
And lemme help you a bit with basic English.
"See", "notice", and "spy on" are generally different things for most of us.
Tom

So you also think that what Emily is doing to these other women is perfectly fine and normal? Even though you know they would not consent to it if they knew?

 

[TomC]

Are you really so naive as to think gay bashers andctrans bashers are different people?

I said no such thing.
Makes the rest of your ideological screed look stupid to me

Tom

 

[Politesse]

Are you really so naive as to think gay bashers andctrans bashers are different people?

I said no such thing.
Makes the rest of your ideological screed look stupid to me

Tom

Then what's your point? If you're cautious around "gay bashers", you should be terrified of TERFs. They will not stop with trans kids in bathrooms. They already have billions invested in this, the juggernaut never stops until citizens stand up and stop it.

 

[TomC]

So you also think that what Emily is doing to these other women is perfectly fine and normal? Even though you know they would not consent to it if they knew?

She didn't do anything to anyone that I am aware of, besides notice that they are male.
And how would I know what they'd object to, since they were standing in the women's restroom arranging their dicks.
Tom

 

[Politesse]

So you also think that what Emily is doing to these other women is perfectly fine and normal? Even though you know they would not consent to it if they knew?

She didn't do anything to anyone that I am aware of, besides notice that they are male.
And how would I know what they'd object to, since they were standing in the women's restroom arranging their dicks.
Tom

So yes. Your answer is "yes". Correct?

 

[TomC]

Are you really so naive as to think gay bashers andctrans bashers are different people?

I said no such thing.
Makes the rest of your ideological screed look stupid to me

Tom

Then what's your point? If you're cautious around "gay bashers", you should be terrified of TERFs. They will not stop with trans kids in bathrooms. They already have billions invested in this, the juggernaut never stops until citizens stand up and stop it.

Why would I be terrified of TERFs? I'm pretty sure I qualify as one by your standards because I don't think males have a right to anything that they want.

Do you remember the post I was responding to? A male found certain other males made him uncomfortable in the locker room. As if being uncomfortable around Asians were a reason for something.
Tom

 

[TomC]

So you also think that what Emily is doing to these other women is perfectly fine and normal? Even though you know they would not consent to it if they knew?

She didn't do anything to anyone that I am aware of, besides notice that they are male.
And how would I know what they'd object to, since they were standing in the women's restroom arranging their dicks.
Tom

So yes. Your answer is "yes". Correct?

If by "Yes" you mean discussion about real life experience, then "Hell Yes!"
Tom

 

[Politesse]

No, by "yes" I mean looking at other people's groins in the bathroom, speculating about what their genitals look like, and writing about your speculations about their genitals on the internet without their consent.

Hand-waving that away as "writing about life experience" is hand-waving away the part that makes it a creepy and wrong thing to do. I write about my life experiences all the time. I have never once written about my observations of someone else's genitals, nor been tempted to. Never would.