Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[pood]

I commend @NoHolyCows not only for having the stomach to wade through all the bilge in this thread, but for responding to it again and again calmly and precisely, armed with facts and a sense of ethics.

To recap for our merry little band of keyboard warriors:

No one here supports Hamas in any way or condones or apologies for the 10/7 attacks.

No one here supports or condones the tyrannical mullahs in Tehran in any way

The issue at hand is very simple:

In the case of Gaza,. Israel’s actions have gone far beyond self defense to repeated war crimes against a helpless population that had no control over Hamas’s actions in the first place.

In the case of Iran, the U.S. has no constitutional or legal right to attack that country, the Israel attack itself was illegal under international law, and in any case the prospect of destroying Iran’s nuclear program or effecting regime change are negligible. Of course, those who support regime change never stop to ask themselves the most basic question — even if that were to happen, what comes next?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Long drive today. AM radio is calling for regime change. Heard Trump will make a decision in two weeks. Why with the damn cliffhanger bullshit?

I ask myself too about the two week deliberation.
About AM radio and call for the regime change, do you happen to remember which show it was?

Two shows but can't recall names. I forget if Gallagher was going there. Only heard a little of him.

However, in this case, if Iran is weeks away from a bomb, Trump wouldn't wait weeks to make a decision.

Well, Israel has been able to inflict some damage on the regime's nuclear program.

Weeks away to me implies the thing is about constructed. They are implying an imminent threat. That means there is a bomb somewhere that needs being buried in 10,000 feet of earth.

Trouble is, this three week thing... where is it even coming from? I have a hard time thinking Mossad was caught by surprise. And US intel says it is well down the road.

 

[laughing dog]

Gazans are not locked up.

They either prefer to stay or they can not leave because they are not allowed to, by Egypt and Hamas and Hamas' supporters.

You repeat this false claim. Israel controls the Gaza side of every crossing.

 

[Gospel]

Weeks away to me implies the thing is about constructed. They are implying an imminent threat. That means there is a bomb somewhere that needs being buried in 10,000 feet of earth.

Trouble is, this three week thing... where is it even coming from? I have a hard time thinking Mossad was caught by surprise. And US intel says it is well down the road.

It's been nearly 30 years of Netanyahu claiming the bomb is around the corner.

 

[ZiprHead]

Iran set off a test nuke some time ago

No, they didn't.

and we didn't know anything about it because it was so deep underground.

Then how do you know about it??

Sorry. I don't know. But that's what Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson said last night on Chris Hayes' show. I assume he is in a position to know these things.

 

[DrZoidberg]

That’s nice. And the relevance to this thread is?

Its to remind all the apologists for Islamism in this thread that they wouldn't be popular in the Middle-East. At least not by regular people in the street

Are you posting drunk again because there are no Islamism apologists?

If you say and do different things, its your actions that define what your real values are

 

[DrZoidberg]

Weeks away to me implies the thing is about constructed. They are implying an imminent threat. That means there is a bomb somewhere that needs being buried in 10,000 feet of earth.

Trouble is, this three week thing... where is it even coming from? I have a hard time thinking Mossad was caught by surprise. And US intel says it is well down the road.

It's been nearly 30 years of Netanyahu claiming the bomb is around the corner.

And in what way has he been wrong?

If Iran keeps trying to do something and we keep preventing them, then it can, and is, true

 

[DrZoidberg]

What is going on here is that there are certain people who, unable to rationally defend their positions, resort to the oldest trick in the book — character assassination, libel, sliming and slurring their interlocutors. Against forced displacement and starvation tactics used in Gaza? You are automatically an anti-Semite. Against U.S. involvement in an illegal war against Iran? You are automatically a supporter of the mullahs in Tehran.

Its not character assassination.

IDF, displacing the civilians is an attempt to not have civilians killed. But I think you know that.

Hamas, (and armed gangs) has weaponised the aid. So now Israel and USA are controlling it, to benefit civilian Palestinians. I'm sure you know this as well.

And finally, Hamas shoots at the IDF from refugeee centers so as to maximise Palestinian civilian casualties. I think you know that as well.

Both sides are lying about number of civilian dead. Because war

The sheer inhumanity and disregard for human lives by Hamas makes me want Israel to just get on with it and have Hamas removed ASAP

 

[Colonel Sanders]

Weeks away to me implies the thing is about constructed. They are implying an imminent threat. That means there is a bomb somewhere that needs being buried in 10,000 feet of earth.

Trouble is, this three week thing... where is it even coming from? I have a hard time thinking Mossad was caught by surprise. And US intel says it is well down the road.

It's been nearly 30 years of Netanyahu claiming the bomb is around the corner.

And in what way has he been wrong?

If Iran keeps trying to do something and we keep preventing them, then it can, and is, true

He's been lying or exaggerating about it for decades.

And my response to those lies and exaggerations is a big Whatever.

Iran supplies Hamas who attacked Israel, who then went on to defend itself and launch a ruthless but justified counterattack against Hamas and now Iran.

Iran doesn't just pose a threat to Israel, it actively aids in killing Israeli people. It's an authoritarian theocracy to boot. I don't know what people reasonably expect the Israeli government to do when one of the most important functions of government is to protect the people it governs.

 

[pood]

That’s nice. And the relevance to this thread is?

Its to remind all the apologists for Islamism in this thread that they wouldn't be popular in the Middle-East. At least not by regular people in the street

Are you posting drunk again because there are no Islamism apologists?

If you say and do different things, its your actions that define what your real values are

And since none of your interlocutors say and do different things, but have been fully consistent in what we are saying, you are once again resorting to cheap, sleazy slurs, which says nothing about us and everything about you

 

[pood]

What is going on here is that there are certain people who, unable to rationally defend their positions, resort to the oldest trick in the book — character assassination, libel, sliming and slurring their interlocutors. Against forced displacement and starvation tactics used in Gaza? You are automatically an anti-Semite. Against U.S. involvement in an illegal war against Iran? You are automatically a supporter of the mullahs in Tehran.

Its not character assassination.

IDF, displacing the civilians is an attempt to not have civilians killed. But I think you know that.

Hamas, (and armed gangs) has weaponised the aid. So now Israel and USA are controlling it, to benefit civilian Palestinians. I'm sure you know this as well.

And finally, Hamas shoots at the IDF from refugeee centers so as to maximise Palestinian civilian casualties. I think you know that as well.

Both sides are lying about number of civilian dead. Because war

The sheer inhumanity and disregard for human lives by Hamas makes me want Israel to just get on with it and have Hamas removed ASAP

No, I don’t “know” any of those things, and you are a well poisoner and a character assassin.

 

[pood]

Israeli minister says it may be “moral’ to starve 2 million Gazans, but ‘no one in the world will let us.’

Let’s also not forget that at the start of this conflict, an Insraeli general said they had been given the mission of razing all Gazan structures to the ground and transforming the entirety of it into a “tent city.” Let’s not forget that the Orange Goon in the White House called for the complete emptying of Gaza and the building of luxury seaside condos there.

So no, nobody gets to pretend that Israel or the U.S. gives two fucking shits about protecting Gazans.

 

[Gospel]

No one should have to live under the shadow of rockets, terror, or hatred. Everyday people in Israel just want peace. I know that for certain. It's just so fucked up what they're going through right now.

 

[pood]

I must say I am also struck by how Zoidberg uses Kim Jong-il as his avatar.

 

[laughing dog]

That’s nice. And the relevance to this thread is?

Its to remind all the apologists for Islamism in this thread that they wouldn't be popular in the Middle-East. At least not by regular people in the street

Are you posting drunk again because there are no Islamism apologists?

If you say and do different things, its your actions that define what your real values are

Still posting drunk, I see.

 

[ZiprHead]

That’s nice. And the relevance to this thread is?

Its to remind all the apologists for Islamism in this thread that they wouldn't be popular in the Middle-East. At least not by regular people in the street

Are you posting drunk again because there are no Islamism apologists?

If you say and do different things, its your actions that define what your real values are

So you value lies about people?

 

[pood]

Israel is luring the U.S. into a trap

An excellent analysis of what’s really going on here.

One thing that is extremely aggravating is the lack of discussion in the mainstream media about how Trump has no constitutional grounds to attack Iran without congressional approval.

In any case, the U.S. has to choose between MOOB — mind our own business — and the same word spelled backward: BOOM.

We’ve been BOOMING since the end of World War II, and with result? The world is as fucked up as ever, and perhaps more so than at any time since the end of World War II. Our repeated fuck ups have been highlighted by two humiliating retreats from Saigon and Kabul. The old idea that the U.S. never lost a war is long a relic of history. We’ll lose this one, too, if we get involved.

 

[pood]

The real enemy of Israel — and the whole Mideast — is climate change.

 

[southernhybrid]

I am amazed at those of you who are willing to waste time to argue with those who support Netanyahu's genocide, but why hasn't anyone mentioned that he's doing the same thing in Iran? He's using the excuse that he's just going after their nuclear sites, but he's also bombing the hell out of Tehran, a city with the population density of New York City. Hundreds of innocent people have already been killed, including babies, children, older adults, doctors, teachers etc. Nettie is a mad man who has no respect for human life if those humans aren't part of his own in-group. Imo, this is all about politics and his desire to hold onto his power. Let's hope our idiot doesn't get involved with this mess. We know he's a psychopath who doesn't care who he harms as long as it gets him lots of attention. I put the two of them in the same class as other autocrats. I don't condone Iran bombing a hospital anymore than I condone Iran bombing innocent civilians in Tehran.

Soldiers of the IDF have admitted that it's Israel who is using civilians as human shields, but they are too scared to do much about it. Sure, there is evidence that Hamas has done this too, but why is it okay for the IDF to do it, while condemning the other terrorists who do it? Do two wrongs make a right these days?

I read this in the NYTimes, the source of news that has won more Pulitzer Prizes than any other. But, it's also in the AP as well as many other news sources. It's been witnessed by organizations and reporters who are willing to put their own lives on the line to give us accurate information. So, I get the fear of Iran having nuclear weapons to some extent, although I'm more concerned about Pakistan, N. Korea, and some other countries, including my own having such weapons, especially considering our current president and the fact that the US is the only country to ever use a nuclear weapon that ended up killing lots of civilians, among other things.

If you have an open mind, do your own DD and discover the truth about Israel. Criticizing Israel is not antisemitic. I criticize my own country, not because I hate it but because I love it and I want it to be better. I want racism and sexism to be wrong again. I want the LBGTQ community to have full civil rights. I want the SCS to be resumed. I want reproductive rights to return. I want the country I knew be restored and then to continue to make progress, while understanding that progress is slow and it take compromise to accomplish it. I just want to see and end to this sudden attempt to turn my less than perfect nation into an autocracy, so I'll happily vote for a less than perfect person agains an autocratic person. Criticizing the US doesn't make me unAmerican. It just means that I want my country to be better. I want Israel to be better and I think it will take new leadership to get that done. Bombing Iranian civilians in Tehran and killing Palestinian civilians who have nothing to do with Hamas isn't going to accomplish that goal.

Have fun with your war of words.


https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/24/midd...-shields-israel-military-gaza-intl/index.html

JerusalemCNN —
The Israeli military has forced Palestinians to enter potentially booby-trapped houses and tunnels in Gaza to avoid putting its troops in harm’s way, according to an Israel Defense Forces (IDF) soldier and five former detainees who said they were victims of the practice.

The soldier, who said his unit held two Palestinian prisoners for the explicit purpose of using them as human shields to probe dangerous places, said the practice was prevalent among Israeli units in Gaza.

“We told them to enter the building before us,” he explained. “If there are any booby traps, they will explode and not us.”

It was so common in the Israeli military that it had a name: “mosquito protocol.”

The exact scale and scope of the practice by the Israeli military is not known. But the testimony of both the soldier and five civilians shows that it was widespread across the territory: in northern Gaza, Gaza City, Khan Younis, and Rafah.

The soldier explained that, at first, his unit, which at the time was in northern Gaza, used standardized procedures before entering a suspect building: sending in a dog or punching a hole through its side with a tank shell or an armored bulldozer.

But one day this spring, the soldier said an intelligence officer showed up with two Palestinian detainees – a 16-year-old boy and 20-year-old man – and told the troops to use them as human shields before entering buildings. The intelligence officer claimed they were connected to Hamas.

When he questioned the practice, the soldier said one of his commanders told him, “‘It’s better that the Palestinian will explode and not our soldiers.’”

“It’s quite shocking, but after a few months in Gaza you [tend not to] think clearly,” the soldier said. “You’re just tired. Obviously, I prefer that my soldiers live. But, you know, that’s not how the world works.”

The soldier said that he and his comrades refused to carry on with the practice after two days and confronted their senior commander about it. Their commander, who first told them not to “think about international law,” saying that their own lives were “more important,” ultimately relented, releasing the two Palestinians, the soldier said.

The fact that they were released, he said, made it clear to him that they had no affiliation with Hamas, “that they are not terrorists.”

Oh wait. If you think that Israel is the good guy, I guess that's just fake news.

 

[ZiprHead]

Does this sound like anyone we know?