Legal definition of woman is based on biological sex, UK supreme court rules

[TomC]

Only in the reproductive sense. Cultures all over the world have recognized that not every one falls into one of two categories. Such individuals were not only recognized but held in esteem in many cultures throughout the world.

Do any of those cultures have indoor plumbing and private/public restrooms?
Professional sports leagues?
Prisons?
Abused spouses support facilities?

Anything remotely relevant to this discussion?
If so, how did they deal with men and their proclivities?
Tom

 

[Toni]

Only in the reproductive sense. Cultures all over the world have recognized that not every one falls into one of two categories. Such individuals were not only recognized but held in esteem in many cultures throughout the world.

Do any of those cultures have indoor plumbing and private/public restrooms?
Professional sports leagues?
Prisons?
Abused spouses support facilities?

Anything remotely relevant to this discussion?
If so, how did they deal with men and their proclivities?
Tom

I’m not certain that what you listed are hallmarks of any culture but here’s a link to Britannica’s list:

Cultures That Recognize More than Two Genders | Britannica

Curious about genders that defy the binary? Learn more about cultures around the world that recognize nonbinary identities.

www.britannica.com

A common theme is that in many cultures, missionaries stamped out the practice of recognizing people for who they are.

 

[TomC]

I’m not certain that what you listed are hallmarks of any culture

You aren't certain that I am talking specifically about modern USA?
Seriously?
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

I’m not certain that what you listed are hallmarks of any culture

You aren't certain that I am talking specifically about modern USA?
Seriously?
Tom

You responded to a post that started “Cultures all over the world”, so naturally a rational reader would take that as the context.

 

[laughing dog]

I would think that the ruling bodies in each sport are better informed and better situated to devise an appropriate outcome.

I feel no need or compulsion to kibbitz on their decisions.

But what should they be considering?

What they consider relevant and important. So ask them.

 

[TomC]

I’m not certain that what you listed are hallmarks of any culture

You aren't certain that I am talking specifically about modern USA?
Seriously?
Tom

You responded to a post that started “Cultures all over the world”, so naturally a rational reader would take that as the context.

Nonsense.
The context is this thread about what is going on in the here and now.

I was actually pretty clear about what I was talking about. Specifically some issues we are dealing with.

But I can't help but notice
Nobody explained how the cultures @Toni mentioned dealt with any of the issues I asked about.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

I’m not certain that what you listed are hallmarks of any culture

You aren't certain that I am talking specifically about modern USA?
Seriously?
Tom

You responded to a post that started “Cultures all over the world”, so naturally a rational reader would take that as the context.

Nonsense…..
The context is this thread about what is going on in the here and now.

The OP is about Scotland.

I was actually pretty clear about what I was talking about. Specifically some issues we are dealing with.

So was Toni.

But I can't help but notice
Nobody explained how the cultures @Toni mentioned dealt with any of the issues I asked about.
Tom

She brought them up as counter examples of places that did treat sex as binary. For some obscure reasons apparent only to you, you missed the point and decided to respond with dumbness.

 

[Toni]

I’m not certain that what you listed are hallmarks of any culture

You aren't certain that I am talking specifically about modern USA?
Seriously?
Tom

I was sure you were.

I’m not certain that what you listed are hallmarks of any culture

You aren't certain that I am talking specifically about modern USA?
Seriously?
Tom

You responded to a post that started “Cultures all over the world”, so naturally a rational reader would take that as the context.

Nonsense.
The context is this thread about what is going on in the here and now.

I was actually pretty clear about what I was talking about. Specifically some issues we are dealing with.

But I can't help but notice
Nobody explained how the cultures @Toni mentioned dealt with any of the issues I asked about.
Tom

I’m sorry if I overestimated your ability to extrapolate from examples to whatever situation you might be considering.

The fact is that historically, and currently, there are cultures that not only recognize intersex and transgender people but celebrate them.

What would happen if our culture did that?

 

[Toni]

I’m not certain that what you listed are hallmarks of any culture

You aren't certain that I am talking specifically about modern USA?
Seriously?
Tom

I don’t consider anything you listed as part of US culture.

And what, exactly, do you mean by ‘men’s proclivities?’

 

[TomC]

I’m sorry if I overestimated your ability to extrapolate from examples to whatever situation you might be considering.

I listed the situations I was considering.
You pointedly refused to discuss the reality of the American culture.
Tom

 

[TomC]

I’m not certain that what you listed are hallmarks of any culture

You aren't certain that I am talking specifically about modern USA?
Seriously?
Tom

I don’t consider anything you listed as part of US culture.

And what, exactly, do you mean by ‘men’s proclivities?’

Dayum.
You don't think that the US has indoor plumbing and private public restrooms?

By "men's proclivities" I'm talking about our tendency to be dangerous for women in certain circumstances.

Whatever.
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

I’m not certain that what you listed are hallmarks of any culture

You aren't certain that I am talking specifically about modern USA?
Seriously?
Tom

I don’t consider anything you listed as part of US culture.

And what, exactly, do you mean by ‘men’s proclivities?’

Dayum.
You don't think that the US has indoor plumbing and private public restrooms?

Fascinating you think indoor plumbing and private restrooms are part of a nation’s culture, and that would be exclusive to the US.

 

[TomC]

I’m not certain that what you listed are hallmarks of any culture

You aren't certain that I am talking specifically about modern USA?
Seriously?
Tom

I don’t consider anything you listed as part of US culture.

And what, exactly, do you mean by ‘men’s proclivities?’

Dayum.
You don't think that the US has indoor plumbing and private public restrooms?

Fascinating you think indoor plumbing and private restrooms are part of a nation’s culture, and that would be exclusive to the US.

Of course, I said no such thing.
But since responding to what I actually say is too hard on your ideology...
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

I’m not certain that what you listed are hallmarks of any culture

You aren't certain that I am talking specifically about modern USA?
Seriously?
Tom

I don’t consider anything you listed as part of US culture.

And what, exactly, do you mean by ‘men’s proclivities?’

Dayum.
You don't think that the US has indoor plumbing and private public restrooms?

Fascinating you think indoor plumbing and private restrooms are part of a nation’s culture, and that would be exclusive to the US.

Of course, I said no such thing.

Reading is fundamental. I bold-faced the responses.

Perhaps you could explain what you meant by the bold-faced in blue, recalling that is a response to a statement about "any culture"?

 

[Toni]

I’m sorry if I overestimated your ability to extrapolate from examples to whatever situation you might be considering.

I listed the situations I was considering.
You pointedly refused to discuss the reality of the American culture.
Tom

Ah, I misunderstood. I thought you were interested in how other cultures deal with those who do not fit nicely into little boxes labeled male or female.

Instead, you seem to believe that no other culture has anything to teach Americans about how to accept everyone.

I’m pretty certain that I can’t teach you anything.

 

[Toni]

I’m not certain that what you listed are hallmarks of any culture

You aren't certain that I am talking specifically about modern USA?
Seriously?
Tom

I don’t consider anything you listed as part of US culture.

And what, exactly, do you mean by ‘men’s proclivities?’

Dayum.
You don't think that the US has indoor plumbing and private public restrooms?

By "men's proclivities" I'm talking about our tendency to be dangerous for women in certain circumstances.

Whatever.
Tom

I don’t consider indoor plumbing or private restrooms ‘culture.’

 

[Toni]

I’m not certain that what you listed are hallmarks of any culture

You aren't certain that I am talking specifically about modern USA?
Seriously?
Tom

I don’t consider anything you listed as part of US culture.

And what, exactly, do you mean by ‘men’s proclivities?’

Dayum.
You don't think that the US has indoor plumbing and private public restrooms?

Fascinating you think indoor plumbing and private restrooms are part of a nation’s culture, and that would be exclusive to the US.

Of course, I said no such thing.
But since responding to what I actually say is too hard on your ideology...
Tom

He can read. And understand the words written.

As can I.

I also can tell a dodge: What do you mean by men’s proclivities?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I also have worried about girls being crowded out of their hard won victory. That does not seem to be what has happened. There are a small number of trans girls on girl’s teams —because there is a small number of trans girls, period. Trans girls do not seem to have any real advantage. Yes, I’ve read stories about trans girls ‘stealing’ place medals but those have been exaggerated to the point of being false. I’m not particularly worried. Yes, locker rooms need to be handled sensitively for everyone’s sake.

Exactly. We are not seeing a problem, just sensationalist headlines.

I DO worry more about pro women’s sports, if they ever start to be financially remunerative enough to attract males who are willing to go to a pretty big extreme to be able to be pro.

Hadn't though of that, could be an issue.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's just a fuckin' fence, you know? Everyone over the age of two knows what those mean.

It often means there's an angry bull on the other side.

Haven’t encountered any angry bulls and I grew up in farm country where cattle are being barbed wire or electric fences. You can see a ball game really well through those.

OTOH, there is a tremendous amount of bullshit comprising a whole lotta other kinds of walls.

Yeah. Surprisingly, we have them around here. Some line roads to keep wildlife separate from traffic, you also find them running the line between ordinary land and wilderness. Ranchers can pay to be allowed to put cows on the ordinary land, but not on the wilderness.

Typically 4 strands, typically the bottom one is not barbed. Friendly to the smaller wildlife, and friendly to us hikers--so long as both sides of the fence are public property it's not meant as a barrier to humans. When a trail crosses one you typically find the fence does a Y on one side, a careful upright creature can pass through, a large 4 legged creature can not. Such structures would not exist if they were intended as human barriers.

There are a few (typically around springs) that are more substantial and marked for humans to keep out. Still utterly see-through though.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This is about to veer far off topic... but this notion that private property is somehow an affront to others, paired with the insinuation that all fences are somehow bad, is naive and unsophisticated. You're doing a really good job of not explicitly saying so, but the tacit thrust of your post is the complete elimination of property rights.

What's infantile is your reduction of my post to "all fences are bad", which of course I did not say and wouldn't say. I do however, deny the notion that helping someone get past a fence, if that fence is barring there access to a public space that they are forced to pay for, is an injustice. If I'm going to pay for the operation of a park just like any other citizen, then I should have equal access to that park just like any other citizen.

In truth, I'm not a huge fan of the Enclosure Acts, but I'm prctical-minded enough to understand that that ship has sailed. What I don't see is why private property rights would in any way apply to publically owned land, insititutions, or services, which seems to be what you're saying if you think that letting kids onto a public field requires a "complete elimination of property rights".

And why do you think you're paying for that park? The baseball team pays for it. From ticket sales.

What Bomb and I noted was an opaque fence. That's about ticket revenue.

There's a public soccer field near here with a very beefy, lockable fence. Still almost totally transparent, though. (The fence exists because the field sits several feet below terrain, it also serves as an emergency retention basin. It would make a mess if it was used, but much less of a mess than if that water were rampaging through the city.)