For those of you who think MAGA Trump supporters are in a cult

[Toni]

... what if releasing the files meant bringing down all the US government or what if it meant nuclear war? That would clearly not be worth it and only Trump (as commander in chief) would know this.

If you were looking to self diagnose to determine your cult status, it's right here, "only Trump (as commander in chief) would know this."

To be a faithful cult member, one must have faith that the cult leader is privy to special revelations and can be trusted to make decisions which affect everyone's lives.

Thanks, Bronzeage. This should teach me not to skim-read Rvonse's posts.

The clause I've reddened (and which I missed when I skimmed earlier) is one of the most astoundingly nonsensical and naive claims that I have ever seen on any message-board. I don't even know how to begin to catalog its imbecilities.

I suppose if POTUS were an unusually perceptive genius, with special sources of intelligence beyond any of his advisors, then the claim might be sensical. But given that it is Donald Trump who is the POTUS (and "commander-in-chief"), the line sounds like a slapstick punch-line from Monty Python, or perhaps Yes Minister.

@RVonse -- can you explain your claim in a brief coherent paragraph? If not, I'm afraid that I must agree with Bronzeage: Your claim is inexplicable unless you believe that Trump has some special Communion with the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible.

I carelessly assumed everyone including you knew that the US is a representative democracy.

That our structure of governance gives the POTUS knowledge of worldwide affairs normal citizens do not have access. My statement having the exact same meaning regardless who the current POTUS was. We give the POTUS more information we can not know so that he can make decisions quickly in the course of normal affairs. Sometimes that makes it seem like what they do is not in our interest when it really is.

All governments give people within various levels of government that the general public either dies not gave easy access to or the expertise to understand it. This includes top leadership. Some information is and should be classified, for legitimate national security purposes. Other information is simply not in the need to know bin of most citizens. If we were expected to know absolutely every thing about every single agency, every bit of information, every byte of data, we would ALL be overwhelmed to the point of paralysis. Society evolved beyond substance living thousands of years ago and people began to specialize in types of work which necessitated specialization in types of information, data, understanding.

So yes, I agree that all POTUS have access to abd are provided information that others are not privy to.

That dies not imply an understanding of that information or the implications of that information, in a variety of contexts with a variety of goals in mind abd the implication of those goals that is the reason for Cabibey positions d advisors: specialists who can explain massive amounts of information in a more condensed form.

But all the explaining in the world does not necessarily mean that the person in the Oval Office understands it. And it does not mean that the person in the Oval Office has the best interests of the American people at heart, nor the interests of the world.

 

[TomC]

For example, what if releasing the files meant bringing down all the US government or what if it meant nuclear war?

How about you expand a little on this threat you found important enough to mention?

I see absolutely no way that exposing sex crime rings could bring down all the US government. Far more likely it would reduce the power of the super rich who consider themselves above the law.
That's a good thing.

And frankly, the idea that releasing the files is more likely to lead to nuclear war than any of Trump's other criminal activities is ridiculous.

Bottom line, Trump is a threat and the longer he gets away with his crimes the bigger the threat to everyone, US and the whole human race.
Tom

 

[Swammerdami]

Jen Psaki explains Epstein_Outrage_Gate using mostly Trump's own words.
A highlight, which should make it into Roget's Thesaurus, was

There's very little difference between a madman and a genius.

 

[patchy]

For example, what if releasing the files meant bringing down all the US government or what if it meant nuclear war?

How about you expand a little on this threat you found important enough to mention?

I see absolutely no way that exposing sex crime rings could bring down all the US government. Far more likely it would reduce the power of the super rich who consider themselves above the law.
That's a good thing.

And frankly, the idea that releasing the files is more likely to lead to nuclear war than any of Trump's other criminal activities is ridiculous.

I very seriously doubt that the poster genuinely believes for a second that the files could conceivably lead to nuclear war, or for that matter, a conventional one.
I think he just wants to assign Trump with some negligible degree of cover, a rationale (no matter how transparently flimsy) for not releasing them.
This must be much more comforting than reaching the rather obvious conclusion that Trump wants them buried because he’s in them.

I suppose his tax returns he’s never released must also be potential nuclear war-starters as well…

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Doesn't say whether there was any real trafficking going on.

It does when the known pattern is to accuse other people loudly before accusations against them can come to light, so as to make people not ready for "another" conspiracy of the same genre.

The reality is that people have talked about and discussed what happened. It's well known that trafficking happened, and that Trump was a procurer for it.

What we have already seen is damning.

I'm sure there was trafficking, I'm saying Pizzagate isn't evidence of it.

 

[Jarhyn]

Doesn't say whether there was any real trafficking going on.

It does when the known pattern is to accuse other people loudly before accusations against them can come to light, so as to make people not ready for "another" conspiracy of the same genre.

The reality is that people have talked about and discussed what happened. It's well known that trafficking happened, and that Trump was a procurer for it.

What we have already seen is damning.

I'm sure there was trafficking, I'm saying Pizzagate isn't evidence of it.

PizzaGate is evidence of its own special secondary crime in the attempt to cover up and prevent awareness of the actual crime that was about to take place.

I'm talking about the same phenomena as seen by intelligence agencies in stoking crazy conspiracy theories for the sake of disrupting the public belief in real events.

 

[Patooka]

 

[ZiprHead]

Doesn't say whether there was any real trafficking going on.

It does when the known pattern is to accuse other people loudly before accusations against them can come to light, so as to make people not ready for "another" conspiracy of the same genre.

The reality is that people have talked about and discussed what happened. It's well known that trafficking happened, and that Trump was a procurer for it.

What we have already seen is damning.

I'm sure there was trafficking, I'm saying Pizzagate isn't evidence of it.

PizzaGate is evidence of its own special secondary crime in the attempt to cover up and prevent awareness of the actual crime that was about to take place.

I'm talking about the same phenomena as seen by intelligence agencies in stoking crazy conspiracy theories for the sake of disrupting the public belief in real events.

Personally and I don't have any evidence to support this but I think QAnon's focus on sex trafficing and blaming it on Democrats was a false flag operation to deflect away from Republicans and Trump in particular. It's kinda brilliant if you think about it.

 

[Jarhyn]

Doesn't say whether there was any real trafficking going on.

It does when the known pattern is to accuse other people loudly before accusations against them can come to light, so as to make people not ready for "another" conspiracy of the same genre.

The reality is that people have talked about and discussed what happened. It's well known that trafficking happened, and that Trump was a procurer for it.

What we have already seen is damning.

I'm sure there was trafficking, I'm saying Pizzagate isn't evidence of it.

PizzaGate is evidence of its own special secondary crime in the attempt to cover up and prevent awareness of the actual crime that was about to take place.

I'm talking about the same phenomena as seen by intelligence agencies in stoking crazy conspiracy theories for the sake of disrupting the public belief in real events.

Personally and I don't have any evidence to support this but I think QAnon's focus on sex trafficing and blaming it on Democrats was a false flag operation to deflect away from Republicans and Trump in particular. It's kinda brilliant if you think about it.

Exactly.

This is more clear than I managed to be.

 

[Toni]

Doesn't say whether there was any real trafficking going on.

It does when the known pattern is to accuse other people loudly before accusations against them can come to light, so as to make people not ready for "another" conspiracy of the same genre.

The reality is that people have talked about and discussed what happened. It's well known that trafficking happened, and that Trump was a procurer for it.

What we have already seen is damning.

I'm sure there was trafficking, I'm saying Pizzagate isn't evidence of it.

PizzaGate is evidence of its own special secondary crime in the attempt to cover up and prevent awareness of the actual crime that was about to take place.

I'm talking about the same phenomena as seen by intelligence agencies in stoking crazy conspiracy theories for the sake of disrupting the public belief in real events.

Personally and I don't have any evidence to support this but I think QAnon's focus on sex trafficing and blaming it on Democrats was a false flag operation to deflect away from Republicans and Trump in particular. It's kinda brilliant if you think about it.

Exactly.

This is more clear than I managed to be.

During his previous presidency and the candidacy leading to it, it was commonly said that every accusation from the Trump camp was a confession. Seems accurate.

 

[BH]

Didnt people say there were sex orgies in the Bush Sr White House involving minors too? Also, wasn't there a huge scandal in Nebraska back in the 80s where supposed rich and state and local leaders in Omaha i think were using a organized child a sex ring? I remember vaguely someone accused of running it went to prison but for embezzling from a savings and loan or credit union, not for child molestation. After it was all over a state senator that looked into it said the claims were credible but the lawyers got it dropped.

Im just wondering if the above accusations were true if this shows how all this Epstein shit will be handled. i have no doubt our elite are depraved and would molest children.

 

[Jarhyn]

Doesn't say whether there was any real trafficking going on.

It does when the known pattern is to accuse other people loudly before accusations against them can come to light, so as to make people not ready for "another" conspiracy of the same genre.

The reality is that people have talked about and discussed what happened. It's well known that trafficking happened, and that Trump was a procurer for it.

What we have already seen is damning.

I'm sure there was trafficking, I'm saying Pizzagate isn't evidence of it.

PizzaGate is evidence of its own special secondary crime in the attempt to cover up and prevent awareness of the actual crime that was about to take place.

I'm talking about the same phenomena as seen by intelligence agencies in stoking crazy conspiracy theories for the sake of disrupting the public belief in real events.

Personally and I don't have any evidence to support this but I think QAnon's focus on sex trafficing and blaming it on Democrats was a false flag operation to deflect away from Republicans and Trump in particular. It's kinda brilliant if you think about it.

Exactly.

This is more clear than I managed to be.

During his previous presidency and the candidacy leading to it, it was commonly said that every accusation from the Trump camp was a confession. Seems accurate.

And now we come full circle as to why we know there was something BIG, probably the Epstein bust, in the pipeline.

Given that Trump's name is circled in the black book, and that apparently means participation in the racket, and the fact that Trump's team and handlers ultimately were responsible for promoting it...

I think this provides enough filaments of evidence to see that Trump was involved with a plot involving the kidnapping and trafficking and rape of minors, not PizzaGate, but something disturbingly like it involving a private island and some billionaires, and more than one head of state.

 

[Patooka]

Man, I'm guessing RVonse is having some buyers remorse about cult accusations right about now...

4 fucking pages in dude...

 

[Toni]

Doesn't say whether there was any real trafficking going on.

It does when the known pattern is to accuse other people loudly before accusations against them can come to light, so as to make people not ready for "another" conspiracy of the same genre.

The reality is that people have talked about and discussed what happened. It's well known that trafficking happened, and that Trump was a procurer for it.

What we have already seen is damning.

I'm sure there was trafficking, I'm saying Pizzagate isn't evidence of it.

PizzaGate is evidence of its own special secondary crime in the attempt to cover up and prevent awareness of the actual crime that was about to take place.

I'm talking about the same phenomena as seen by intelligence agencies in stoking crazy conspiracy theories for the sake of disrupting the public belief in real events.

Personally and I don't have any evidence to support this but I think QAnon's focus on sex trafficing and blaming it on Democrats was a false flag operation to deflect away from Republicans and Trump in particular. It's kinda brilliant if you think about it.

Exactly.

This is more clear than I managed to be.

During his previous presidency and the candidacy leading to it, it was commonly said that every accusation from the Trump camp was a confession. Seems accurate.

And now we come full circle as to why we know there was something BIG, probably the Epstein bust, in the pipeline.

Given that Trump's name is circled in the black book, and that apparently means participation in the racket, and the fact that Trump's team and handlers ultimately were responsible for promoting it...

I think this provides enough filaments of evidence to see that Trump was involved with a plot involving the kidnapping and trafficking and rape of minors, not PizzaGate, but something disturbingly like it involving a private island and some billionaires, and more than one head of state.

I don’t disagree but exactly how is this news? I don’t mean to be offensive and it’s not directed at you but to me, this is extremely old news. I’m not sure why it’s coming up now.

As for whether Trump ordered the hit on Epstein ? I think there were probably lots of names on that list who could have done.

And somebody better check on Ghislaine. I don’t like her chances.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Let the record show that, while you wokes filled this thread with wild speculation about what did or didn't happen on Epstein Island, my President was in the Oval Office, conducting America's business, like making sure Coca Cola has Almightygod-REAL cane sugar.
Promises made, promises kept.

 

[scombrid]

The oval office looks like Jan Crouch decorated it.

 

[Patooka]

Fucking hell, now even a nobody like Jordan Shanks is fucking talking about it.

 

[Tammuz]

Cult or not, they are being duped by a conman.

 

[Swammerdami]

I agree with OP that the MAGGOTS and other Trump supporters DO form a cult. But it is a cult that may be in the process of sustaining a deep fracture: A fracture reminiscent of the schism between Shia and Sunni which began almost 14 centuries and still dominates Islamic politics. Or of the schism associated with the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD, Or of various other schisms in Christianity, e.g. the Catholic-Protestant schism initiated by Martin Luther's Ninety-five Theses in 1517 AD.

The heart of the Epstein schism is that the MAGGOTs have been brain-washed into thinking the Democrats are sexual predators -- they're still yakking about the sex-slaves in the basement of Hillary's pizza parlor -- but in fact sexual predation is much more of a Republican thing. But the factions of America's Fascism cult all worship the same cult leader -- the Orange Führer. All right-thinking Americans hope that this schism will blunt the power of this criminal cult.

Alternet summarizes this schism, and I provide some excerpts. (I use a trick to bypass the Alternet pay-wall.)

MAGA’s principal motivation is drawn from a cosmic story about the battle between good and evil, and with the Epstein scandal, Trump has raised doubts about which side he’s on. ... It’s the belief that Donald Trump is the epic hero in a secret war against powerful and malevolent (and Jewish) conspirators who have plotted with agents in the government (the deep state), corporations (wokeness) and the media (lies) to sabotage America. The end of the story was supposed to come when Trump released the Epstein files in advance of executing God’s enemies.

But ... Pam Bondi ... said, in effect, that “the prophecy” was phony. As Lindsay Beyerstein memorably put it: “To the QAnon base, it’s akin to the pope tweeting, ‘We’ve reviewed the files and Jesus didn’t rise from the dead. Thank you for your attention in this matter.’”

Something about QAnon that’s important to bear in mind is that lots of people have served it to become rich and influential ...
This is the source of the division among the MAGA faithful, between a political leader who, over a decade, rode a rising tide of conspiracy theory – from birtherism to Pizzagate to the stop the steal – and a tightly-knit group of right-wing operatives, some of them are funded by the governments of Russia and Iran, who rode that tide along with him.

United, they could bend the will of the Washington press corps and prevent any scandal from truly taking root, up to and including an attempted paramilitary takeover of the United States government.

Divided, however, the president is badly exposed.

One way Trump diverts attention away from his incompetence, indecency and criminality is to accuse the media of being “the enemy of the people,” knowing his conspiracy-minded followers will interpret that to mean reporters are an extension of a Satan-worshiping pedophiliac cabal that’s plotting to destroy America and God’s chosen.

But now, he risks feeling the consequences of every choice ...

 

[barbos]

I think Yugoslavia Iran should be worried.