Split New York City Mayoral Race

[ZiprHead]

That's 1 to 3 percent profit AFTER the CEOs and the rest of the overpaid management class are paid.

Can you show what percentage of a grocery store chain's revenue is spent on CEO and other executive pay?

No.

And what does "privately owned mean?

In this context, it's "not government owned".

Kroger's former CEO, Rodney McMullen, earned a total compensation of $15.4 million in 2024.

There are probably more than a thousand more overpaid fucks in the Kroger hierarchy skimming off our food costs. It's the same throughout the entire retail chain industry.

Large corporations need people who run it. Government grocery stores also need apparatchiks to run it; they will not run themselves.

Of course they do. Do you think those people will be paid in millions?

I think Kroger's 2024 revenue was about $150G. That means that the CEO's pay was whopping ~0.01% of the revenues.

Did you forget about the other C Suite class I mentioned?

Kroger owns a large number of other grocery store chains, including Ralphs, Dillons, King Soopers, Fry's, QFC, City Market, Metro Market, Pick 'n Save, Mariano's, Harris Teeter, Owen's, Jay C, Pay Less, Baker's, and Gerbes. These chains operate under various names and formats across different regions of the United States.

We need to start anti-trust prosecutions again.

We have Kroger's here, but none of these other chains, to my knowledge. I do not think it is much of a antitrust violation to have Kroger's in Georgia and Ralphs in California since they do not compete with each other anyway, whether owned by the same corporation or not. I.e. having Ralphs and Kroger's owned by the same entity does not reduce competition.
Therefore, there is no warrant for any antitrust action. I think the biggest problem with concentration is upstream of grocery stores. Handful of meat packing companies controlling most of the market. Giants like Unilever or Pepsi owning large share of brands of packaged foods sold in grocery stores throughout the country. Stuff like that.

Why can't we do both?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Not as long as you dish up such straw men. Nowhere did I say any candidate shouldn’t be criticized.

Your "so?" was dismissive of me showing a clip where he spewed Marxist rhetoric. It communicated that you do not see anything wrong with Marxist rhetoric from Democratic politicians.

You know, Marxist rhetoric isn't evil. Karl Marx supported the idea that the laborer's value was greater than it was compensated for, back in a day when people died at work. Taking over the means of production isn't really viable, as Marx's flaw was that management mattered more than he considered, much like how management didn't value labor at all.

Then you countered that voters have the right to elect socialist and fascist candidates as an argument against me criticizing Mamdani for his extremist rhetoric.

Extremist? It is hard to take people seriously when all they do is speak in hyperbole.

So far, all I see is “eek - he eats rice with his hands” and “eek, MARXISM” and “oh noes, gov’t grocery stores”.

I offered very rational critique of his grocery store idea in multiple posts. As far as Marxism, the history of that ideology should speak for itself.

I looked it up, he wants to open five grocery stores, one in each borough to help those that don't have access to groceries. This idea is dumb and ineffective. Adding one grocery store per borough will go primarily unnoticed. It is an ineffective solution to a real problem. Bank and grocery deserts in the urban landscape are real problems that need real solutions, which aren't easy because, for instance, in order to have lower grocery prices, you need volume.

 

[patchy]

I wish there was a way to distinguish which ideological premise was the more threatening to American ideals…
the (somewhat Socialist) idea of opening five grocery stores in New York City,
or
the (somewhat Fascist) idea of just unilaterally negating a result you don’t like, of a free and fair democratic election, and taking over by force “if need be.”

Said Trump: “If a communist gets elected to run New York, it can never be the same. But we have tremendous power at the White House to run places where we have to.”

ONE of those doesn’t sound like the America I grew up in, but fuck if I can figure out which one…

 

[Derec]

Can you show what percentage of a grocery store chain's revenue is spent on CEO and other executive pay?

No.

And yet you are sure that it's too much?

Of course they do. Do you think those people will be paid in millions?

Whomever Mamdani appoints to run his government grocery stores will most likely be paid more, as a percentage of the revenues, than the Kroger CEO.

Did you forget about the other C Suite class I mentioned?

No, hence my question on top. Anyway, I doubt it's much more than 0.1% of revenues though.
And people in the C suite have jobs that they have to do and daily tasks that they have to complete. They do not get their money for nothing (and their chicks for free).

Why can't we do both?

Even though there isn't a problem with the level of competition on the retail store level?

 

[Derec]

You know, Marxist rhetoric isn't evil.

Sure it is. Calling for seizing the means of production is calling for theft on a major scale. It is very concerning that the likely next mayor of the biggest city in the US acknowledges this as his long-term political goal.

Karl Marx supported the idea that the laborer's value was greater than it was compensated for, back in a day when people died at work.

It is somewhat understandable why Marx would come up with his ideas, given the realities of 19th century industrialization.
It is not understandable why a 33 year old from the 21st century would parrot these ideas, given the realities of 20th century "actually existing socialism" which tried and failed to implement Marxist ideas into practice.

Taking over the means of production isn't really viable, as Marx's flaw was that management mattered more than he considered, much like how management didn't value labor at all.

It's the same fallacy Ziprhead is guilty of, I think, when he dismisses the value brought by corporate management of grocery store chains.

Extremist? It is hard to take people seriously when all they do is speak in hyperbole.

You do not think calling for "seizing the means of production" is extreme? I do not think I am exaggerating at all here.
Again, this is the video in question:

I looked it up, he wants to open five grocery stores, one in each borough to help those that don't have access to groceries. This idea is dumb and ineffective.

Thank you, Jimothee ...

Adding one grocery store per borough will go primarily unnoticed. It is an ineffective solution to a real problem.

Mamdani almost certainly envisions the five grocery stores as a pilot program. Because one store per borough is almost comically little.

Bank and grocery deserts in the urban landscape are real problems that need real solutions, which aren't easy because, for instance, in order to have lower grocery prices, you need volume.

I have talked about the many problems of this proposal in other posts in this thread.
Deserts are a real problem, and first thing that needs to happen is identifying the reason private businesses could not operate successfully in those neighborhoods. Just plonking a government-owned version will not change those structural issues. And changing them will make government-owned stores superfluous.

 

[Derec]

I wonder what Mamdani's proposal is to deal with serial offenders like this one:
Aspiring Thai model viciously beaten at NYC subway station by ex-con out on bail as she pleads with him to stop: prosecutors

An aspiring Thai model was viciously beaten and robbed at a Brooklyn subway station by an ex-con out on bail, according to prosecutors — as video shows her pleading with him to stop,
Zine Raksasutee, 26, was on the stairs at the Chauncey Street station in Bushwick June 22 when Lewis Doctor, 54, allegedly grabbed her by the throat and shoved her against a wall — then unloaded a flurry of punches, according to a criminal complaint obtained by The Post.
[...]
Doctor was indicted Monday on first-degree assault, first-degree robbery, fourth-degree grand larceny, criminal possession of stolen property and a slew of related charges, according to the complaint.
He faces up to 25 years in prison if convicted of assault in the first degree.
He was previously cut loose on $5,000 bail in January 2024 after he was arrested and charged with robbing a victim with a BB gun, Brooklyn District Attorney Eric Gonzalez’s office said.
Prosecutors unsuccessfully requested $50,000 bail in that case, according to the DA’s office.
This time around, the suspect is being held in custody after prosecutors were granted their request of $50,000 bail in the most recent case, according to prosecutors.
Doctor served a state prison sentence between 1998 and 2022 on robbery charges, according to state records.

Doctor was out on a comically low bail of $5k for a previous case. Prosecutors sought higher bail, but the judge set it at that level. And even after attacking Raksasutee, he was still not remanded without bail. Note that he also served 24 years for robbery, so this was at least his third offense.

Mamdani has a history of calling for ending cash bail and for defunding police. He will make crime problems worse with these policies.
But hey, there is a silver lining. He said he wants to make NYC more affordable. What better way than to let crime run rampant and therefore reduce demand because people are moving outside of the city limits?

 

[southernhybrid]

I asked several people who have lived in different states if they think New York City has much influence over the rest of the country. They all laughed and said NO. I've lived in NJ, Virginia, Texas, SC, NC, Florida, briefly Massachusetts, Georgia and briefly Indiana. I've never seen NYC have any influence on any of these places, not even NJ. The only thing that NYC influenced in NJ was the accent. AS more people from the city moved to NJ, the Jersey accent became more like the NYCity accent. New Yorkers looked down on NJ and NJ hated that. NYC was a fun place to visit but it had no influence that I can remember on the two cities where I lived in New Jersey while growing up.

So, regardless of how anyone feels about Mamdani, he's not going to get much done and he's not going to influence the rest of the country. He's just one very idealistic guy who may be the next mayor of NYC. I think he will be in over his head, primarily because he lacks the type of experience that comes with age, but I don't see him as detrimental to the country and just maybe he will help some of the poor people in the city. Time will tell. I do think he will set a good example as to how Democrats should message if they want to win elections. I'm not talking about his policies, I'm talking about how he used social media to reach out to younger people.

I was an idealistic socialist when I was young, but as I got older I became more realistic and realized that it took compromise to make progress. Marx did have some good ideas in theory, but I think he was also very idealistic and had no idea how his ideas would be corrupted. People aren't motivated if they can't expect a better reward for working harder. Those who accomplish the most are at least somewhat motivated by the expectation of more pay.

You can't make everyone equal financially. It just doesn't work, but it would be good to have the wealthiest among us pay more taxes since they benefit the most from the infrastructure and some of our laws. We could also raise wages so that nobody has to be homeless or go without food. Why would that be so terrible? That isn't socialism. It's just common sense. Plus when poverty is lowered, crime is also lowered. There are many benefits to having less wealth extremism. Greed doesn't benefit society in any way. How many billions does a person need?

 

[laughing dog]

Whether or not 5 gov’t grocery stores are comically little depends on their placement within a borough, and the private sector response.

In any event, it is an extremely low cost experiment that shouldn’t raise anyone’s hackles.

 

[ZiprHead]

Can you show what percentage of a grocery store chain's revenue is spent on CEO and other executive pay?

No.

And yet you are sure that it's too much?

Why did you not mention the other hundreds of the C suite level making huge amounts of money too.

Of course they do. Do you think those people will be paid in millions?

Whomever Mamdani appoints to run his government grocery stores will most likely be paid more, as a percentage of the revenues, than the Kroger CEO.

Did you forget about the other C Suite class I mentioned?

No, hence my question on top. Anyway, I doubt it's much more than 0.1% of revenues though.
And people in the C suite have jobs that they have to do and daily tasks that they have to complete. They do not get their money for nothing (and their chicks for free).

Why can't we do both?

Even though there isn't a problem with the level of competition on the retail store level?

Kroger Company/Albertsons Companies, Inc., In the Matter of

The Federal Trade Commission sued to block the largest proposed supermarket merger in U.S. history—Kroger Company’s $24.6 billion acquisition of the Albertsons Companies, Inc.—alleging that the deal is anticompetitive.

www.ftc.gov

Apparently I'm not the only one that thinks so.

 

[Derec]

Zohran Mamdani advocated abolishing private property in order to secure housing for everyone.

This proves that the other video where he calls "seizing the means of production" his end goal is not a one-off.
And this also shows that the apologetics that "democratic socialists" are not really socialists, but rather social democrats, will no longer fly. The mask has slipped.

 

[TSwizzle]

He sounds more like a Marxist, like LA mayor Karen Bass.

 

[TomC]

He sounds more like a Marxist, like LA mayor Karen Bass.

I'd honestly rather see a Marxist in office, in the current political landscape, than another fascist Nazi. We've already got a ton of them, from the White House to the Capitol to SCOTUS. And that's before we get to the state and local governments.
Tom

 

[Derec]

I'd honestly rather see a Marxist in office, in the current political landscape, than another fascist Nazi. We've already got a ton of them, from the White House to the Capitol to SCOTUS. And that's before we get to the state and local governments.
Tom

Both extremes are bad. And the alternatives to the Marxist Mamdani are not "fascist Nazis".

 

[TomC]

I'd honestly rather see a Marxist in office, in the current political landscape, than another fascist Nazi. We've already got a ton of them, from the White House to the Capitol to SCOTUS. And that's before we get to the state and local governments.
Tom

Both extremes are bad. And the alternatives to the Marxist Mamdani are not "fascist Nazis".

Nevertheless, the USA has a ton of fascist Nazis. I see no reason to think Mamdani is anywhere close to being the threat to America that Teaparty and Trump already are.

Center Left folks, like AOC and Buttigieg, would be great. But they are always under the gun from fascists like Trump. The Teaparty is dominated by liars who don't care about how much damage they do to the American people or our values as long as they benefit from the destruction.
Teaparty kinda reminds me of Hamas, really.
Tom

 

[ZiprHead]

Zohran Mamdani advocated abolishing private property in order to secure housing for everyone.

This proves that the other video where he calls "seizing the means of production" his end goal is not a one-off.
And this also shows that the apologetics that "democratic socialists" are not really socialists, but rather social democrats, will no longer fly. The mask has slipped.

In our city, property is seized by the PTB for back taxes all the time. Then they are sold for pennies on the dollar instead of being used to house the homeless.

ETA: There is absolutely no candidate that gets everything he wants. And I highly doubt Mamdani could get this unless he uses what I spoke of above.

But I have clutching pearls for sale cheap. $47 dollars a strand.

 

[laughing dog]

Under what realistic scenario could the mayor of NYC abolish private property?

I listened to sound bite. Mamdani said if everyone having housing is called abolishment of private property or statewide housing guarantee. The latter does not require abolishment of private property.

 

[unapologetic]

Nobody complains about government run liquor stores,

I have often wondered who benefits from liqur Certainly not the persons therein.

I must have missed it

Incidentally, to further spite Derec, there are some 275 mosques in NYC, more than in any other metro area in the U.S. And mosques are breathtakingly beautiful, especially the interiors.

 

[unapologetic]

Nobody complains about government run liquor stores. Government run food stores shouldn't be a problem.

I have often wondered who benefits from the infrastructure of graveyards? Certainly not the persons therein.

I must have missed it. How is the infrastructure of graveyards relivant?

 

[Tigers!]

Nobody complains about government run liquor stores. Government run food stores shouldn't be a problem.

I have often wondered who benefits from the infrastructure of graveyards? Certainly not the persons therein.

I must have missed it. How is the infrastructure of graveyards relivant?

That was a response to Bilby about who benefits from infrastructure.

 

[bilby]

Nobody complains about government run liquor stores. Government run food stores shouldn't be a problem.

I agree.

I have often wondered who benefits from the infrastructure of graveyards? Certainly not the persons therein.

I must have missed it. How is the infrastructure of graveyards relivant?

And the answer (200 or so posts ago) was:

I have often wondered who benefits from the infrastructure of graveyards? Certainly not the persons therein.

The persons who want to remember and have a place to grieve over their deceased relatives and friends.

Graveyards, like funerals, are for the living, not for the dead.

Just as public transport is not for the passengers, but rather is for the people who want people to be here, rather than there, such as shopkeepers and employers.

In my experience, many commuters are just as unhappy about having to be on the bus, as they are about one day having to be in a graveyard. It's an inevitability to which they are resigned, not an experience they would seek out for their own benefit.