Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

[ZiprHead]

1) We have no proof of who is doing the intercepting--but there's no way that it's not mostly Hamas.

Do you realize how crazy that sounds?

 

[DrZoidberg]

For example: When Hamas booby trapped every civilian house in Rafah, the IDF just levelled Rafah from above. That’s the sound strategic choice. That destruction should be blamed on Hamas. Those houses would likely have needed to come down anyway in the process of removing the booby traps. Its near impossible to do it safely without detonating them.

Instead it has widely been described as genocide, Israeli expansion, forced displacement and god knows what else.

When the double standards are this extreme, I think antisemitism is a valid conclusion

Actually, many could have been safely disarmed by Hamas because they were command detonate devices. Doesn't change the basic picture, though--the houses became weapons.

I doubt Hamas has that degree of control. Fascist organizations never dare empower underlings enough to threaten those higher up. So everything is made half assed

 

[Arctish]

What a surprise that the Arab nations have a different agenda than Israel. That's not the point. The point is that Muslims have managed to get over their retarded anti-Israel tribalism and are trying to work towards a realistic solution.

Its an improvement over the old idea, ie "kill all Jews".

When was "kill all Jews" the idea of Muslim states?

The Nazis were Christians and Nazi Germany was European.

The Palestinians weren't interested in killing all Jews. Neither were the Jordanians, the Lebanese, the Saudis, the Egyptians, or the others in the area, except for a few random haters here and there that some posters like to pretend were "all Muslims".

And most people that beat their wives aren't interested in killing them--but that sometimes changes when their victims escape. That's what's happened with Israel.

Stop trying to shift the goalposts.

DrZoidberg posts absurd claims he apparently thinks are true, like the claim that Muslims once held the old idea "kill all Jews" or that Hamas booby trapped every civilian house in Rafah. It's propaganda he thoughtlessly swallowed and is now regurgitating on this discussion board.

When was "kill all Jews" the idea of Muslim states, Loren? Was it before or after Nazi Germany came up with the plan to kill all Jews? Did the Nazis take instructions from Muslims on how to run the Third Reich or did the Muslims force Jews to state their ethnic and religious affiliation on their ID cards so that they could be singled out for special treatment? Show us the evidence that supports DrZoidberg's claim.

And don't just make up bullshit stories about Palestinian Jews being enslaved by their Palestinian Christian and Muslim neighbors. Show us the facts.

 

[Arctish]

DrZoidberg has me on Ignore so I am unable to ask him, but I do wonder how the IDF knew Hamas had booby trapped every civilian house in Rafah.

I also wonder how the civilians avoided the booby traps. And why, if it was possible for civilians to avoid them, it wasn't feasible for the IDF to avoid them as well.

Inspect via drone. As for how to avoid them: For the most part, the civilians were not there. (And when Israel let them return Hamas didn't because of the booby traps.) And the civilians that are present know what will set the bomb off--which is at the heart of what keeps being improperly reported as a war crime: The IDF would ask the civilians to show that the house wasn't booby trapped. This is not a war crime because they weren't made to, it's just that they would treat it as booby trapped if not shown otherwise. No different than showing the bomb squad what's in that bag or they'll use a disruptor on it. Also, many of the things were command detonated. Someone is watching with a camera and will push the button if they see Israelis.

Do you have facts that support any of your claims or are you just making shit up?

You are claiming every house in Rafah was inspected, either by drone or by forcing civilians to inspect them (forced labor in a very dangerous situation in a war zone aka a war crime). That's absurd.

You are also claiming that the civilians, nearly a third of whom are young children and toddlers, know what will set the booby traps off and can safely live, work, and play among them, which is even more absurd.

And you are claiming that before a house was destroyed the IDF would politely ask the families who lived there to prove their houses weren't booby trapped, which implies a house-to-house ground operation so extensive it made the Battle of Fallujah look like a fight between rival street gangs, an operation that would not have resulted in entire neighborhoods destroyed unless Hamas' abilities and resources rival Tony Stark's.

Don't be ridiculous.

 

[laughing dog]

We are placing the blame on the party that acted with the intent of creating the situation. What we are seeing happen is a Hamas objective, not an Israeli objective.

An implication of that position is that the gov’t of Israel has no agency.

And, if one thinks the gov’t of Israel has agency, then why choose to help their fanatical genocidal neighbors fulfill their objective?

Because Israel perfectly well knows that if they don't slam Hamas it's like with any bully, they'll escalate until they do get a reaction.

It ends up being the heavier a hand Israel uses the safer their people are. Ugly, but they are not in a position to change that. Everyone around there knows how to play safe with Israel--don't poke the porcupine. Don't let others poke the porcupine from within your territory. But there's always someone who will take the money and poke the porcupine.

If that is all true ( a big assumption), since the gov’t of Israel is okay with fulfilling the Hamas objective of disproportionately overreacting to cause misery, destruction and death on civilians, why are you complaining when the world is also fulfilling Hamas’s objective?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Here's another good one

 

[ZiprHead]

‘A Game of Target Practice’: Doctors Back From Gaza Share Harrowing Stories of Israel’s Brutality in Exclusive Town Hall

In a shocking conversation, two British and American doctors share stories with Mehdi and subscribers about the violence they witnessed – and the heroism of Palestinians.

zeteo.com

Mehdi Hassan interviewing two western doctors that worked in Gaza.

Israel supporters aren't going to like what they have to say.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

1) We have no proof of who is doing the intercepting--but there's no way that it's not mostly Hamas.

Do you realize how crazy that sounds?

Because Hamas is the thousand pound gorilla, who else would it be? And note that the UN data does not distinguish that taken by armed groups vs that taken by people--they have to know the answer, thus this is clearly being omitted in order to give a shred of deniability. If it really were mostly just the people they would have said so.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

For example: When Hamas booby trapped every civilian house in Rafah, the IDF just levelled Rafah from above. That’s the sound strategic choice. That destruction should be blamed on Hamas. Those houses would likely have needed to come down anyway in the process of removing the booby traps. Its near impossible to do it safely without detonating them.

Instead it has widely been described as genocide, Israeli expansion, forced displacement and god knows what else.

When the double standards are this extreme, I think antisemitism is a valid conclusion

Actually, many could have been safely disarmed by Hamas because they were command detonate devices. Doesn't change the basic picture, though--the houses became weapons.

I doubt Hamas has that degree of control. Fascist organizations never dare empower underlings enough to threaten those higher up. So everything is made half assed

Huh? A friendly can "disarm" a command detonate device by simply walking in and pulling out the detonator. Do you not realize that a command detonate device is sitting there waiting for someone somewhere to push a button, it's not rigged to explode if messed with.

 

[pood]

Fury grows in Israel over Netanyahu’s defiant bid to ‘finish the job’ in Gaza.

 

[pood]

I suppose that’s another “biased” article, right, Loren?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Stop trying to shift the goalposts.

DrZoidberg posts absurd claims he apparently thinks are true, like the claim that Muslims once held the old idea "kill all Jews" or that Hamas booby trapped every civilian house in Rafah. It's propaganda he thoughtlessly swallowed and is now regurgitating on this discussion board.

Right out of their holy books:
"O Muslim, There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

When was "kill all Jews" the idea of Muslim states, Loren? Was it before or after Nazi Germany came up with the plan to kill all Jews? Did the Nazis take instructions from Muslims on how to run the Third Reich or did the Muslims force Jews to state their ethnic and religious affiliation on their ID cards so that they could be singled out for special treatment? Show us the evidence that supports DrZoidberg's claim.

It's been there from the very start.

Most of the time they have simply oppressed the non-Muslims, especially the Jews. Occasional pogroms have happened basically everywhere, though.

Just because the Nazis got in on the antisemitism game doesn't mean it's exclusive to them.

And don't just make up bullshit stories about Palestinian Jews being enslaved by their Palestinian Christian and Muslim neighbors. Show us the facts.

You are demanding an impossible burden of proof. But turn it around--why should we think there's something different about that area that it's no like the rest of the world? And Islam likes slavery.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You are claiming every house in Rafah was inspected, either by drone or by forcing civilians to inspect them (forced labor in a very dangerous situation in a war zone aka a war crime). That's absurd.

Nobody claimed that. Just that the number of houses that were booby trapped was in the ballpark of 100%.

And note that there's no force. Lots of claims of civilians being asked to demonstrate something isn't booby trapped, zero claims of civilians being blown up by said booby traps. It's booby trapped, the civilian refuses to show it's not, IDF assumes trapped. Nobody gets hurt.

You are also claiming that the civilians, nearly a third of whom are young children and toddlers, know what will set the booby traps off and can safely live, work, and play among them, which is even more absurd.

Obviously they do not normally set such traps where there are young kids. (We do have that case where supposedly Israel shelled a beach--no, that was a mine that Hamas screwed up and some beachgoer set it off.) But remember the area in question was mostly evacuated.

And you are claiming that before a house was destroyed the IDF would politely ask the families who lived there to prove their houses weren't booby trapped, which implies a house-to-house ground operation so extensive it made the Battle of Fallujah look like a fight between rival street gangs, an operation that would not have resulted in entire neighborhoods destroyed unless Hamas' abilities and resources rival Tony Stark's.

Don't be ridiculous.

Why do you find it unreasonable? We are not talking about an actual firefight situation. And booby traps are cheap.

 

[Derec]

Jews for justice. Jews against genocide.

Was 10/7 "justice"? I know it was attempted genocide.

In the wake of 10/7, Mamdani failed to directly condemn Hamas, or its attack against Israeli civilians. Instead, he chose to bitch about "Netanyahu's declaration of war", and "occupation" (which Gaza hadn't been since 2005).

This is the equivalent of, on December 8th 1941, condemning US Congress for declaring war against Japan, instead of condemning Japan for attacking Pearl Harbor.

Everybody voting for this Marxist clown is delusional, but it is especially strange to see Jews be bamboozled by him.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

We are placing the blame on the party that acted with the intent of creating the situation. What we are seeing happen is a Hamas objective, not an Israeli objective.

An implication of that position is that the gov’t of Israel has no agency.

And, if one thinks the gov’t of Israel has agency, then why choose to help their fanatical genocidal neighbors fulfill their objective?

Because Israel perfectly well knows that if they don't slam Hamas it's like with any bully, they'll escalate until they do get a reaction.

It ends up being the heavier a hand Israel uses the safer their people are. Ugly, but they are not in a position to change that. Everyone around there knows how to play safe with Israel--don't poke the porcupine. Don't let others poke the porcupine from within your territory. But there's always someone who will take the money and poke the porcupine.

If that is all true ( a big assumption), since the gov’t of Israel is okay with fulfilling the Hamas objective of disproportionately overreacting to cause misery, destruction and death on civilians, why are you complaining when the world is also fulfilling Hamas’s objective?

And you continue to search under the streetlight.

 

[Politesse]

It's weird how many Jews oppose genocide on principle. Isn't that anti-Semitic?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

‘A Game of Target Practice’: Doctors Back From Gaza Share Harrowing Stories of Israel’s Brutality in Exclusive Town Hall

In a shocking conversation, two British and American doctors share stories with Mehdi and subscribers about the violence they witnessed – and the heroism of Palestinians.

zeteo.com

Mehdi Hassan interviewing two western doctors that worked in Gaza.

Israel supporters aren't going to like what they have to say.

And what reason do we have to believe that this bears any connection to reality?

 

[Politesse]

 

[ZiprHead]

‘A Game of Target Practice’: Doctors Back From Gaza Share Harrowing Stories of Israel’s Brutality in Exclusive Town Hall

In a shocking conversation, two British and American doctors share stories with Mehdi and subscribers about the violence they witnessed – and the heroism of Palestinians.

zeteo.com

Mehdi Hassan interviewing two western doctors that worked in Gaza.

Israel supporters aren't going to like what they have to say.

And what reason do we have to believe that this bears any connection to reality?

 

[pood]

‘A Game of Target Practice’: Doctors Back From Gaza Share Harrowing Stories of Israel’s Brutality in Exclusive Town Hall

In a shocking conversation, two British and American doctors share stories with Mehdi and subscribers about the violence they witnessed – and the heroism of Palestinians.

zeteo.com

Mehdi Hassan interviewing two western doctors that worked in Gaza.

Israel supporters aren't going to like what they have to say.

And what reason do we have to believe that this bears any connection to reality?

The doctors are just liars and anti-semites, right?