Time Travel... the fly in the ointment

[untermensche]

According to you it is in no specific location. If the future is as real as the present then nothing has a specific location. And since we don't know the future we really have no idea where anything is because we don't know where it will be.

How is it we are able to stand in the middle of all this and see a rock in only one location?

How is the realness of the future and the past divided by us so we experience a now?

Why do we experience a here?

Exactly.

Since our location is just an illusion like our "moment" in time how is it we separate the "real" in this manner?

Why are we experiencing ourselves at a specific time and place when it is only an illusion?

By what means are we able to accomplish such a feat?

 

[Juma]

Why do we experience a here?

Exactly.

Since our location is just an illusion like our "moment" in time how is it we separate the "real" in this manner?

Why are we experiencing ourselves at a specific time and place when it is only an illusion?

It is not an illusion. It is how we perceive reality.

 

[untermensche]

Exactly.

Since our location is just an illusion like our "moment" in time how is it we separate the "real" in this manner?

Why are we experiencing ourselves at a specific time and place when it is only an illusion?

It is not an illusion. It is how we perceive reality.

According to some the separation of past from future IS an illusion. It is all equally real and equally existing.

Why are we at a point where we have no idea what the future is when it is as real as the past?

What creates this ignorance?

 

[Juma]

It is not an illusion. It is how we perceive reality.

According to some the separation of past from future IS an illusion. It is all equally real and equally existing.

Why are we at a point where we have no idea what the future is when it is as real as the past?

What creates this ignorance?

What the heck are you talking about? There is no illusion. Time is a dimension as is spacedimensions and we percevie it as we perceive a here and now. What is it you think is an illusion? I am at a specific point in time just as I am at a specific point in space.

 

[untermensche]

According to some the separation of past from future IS an illusion. It is all equally real and equally existing.

Why are we at a point where we have no idea what the future is when it is as real as the past?

What creates this ignorance?

What the heck are you talking about? There is no illusion. Time is a dimension as is spacedimensions and we percevie it as we perceive a here and now. What is it you think is an illusion? I am at a specific point in time just as I am at a specific point in space.

If the past and the future are as real as the present then the present is an illusion. It is an arbitrary division where no division exists. An illusion of a division.

What creates this illusion?

Why does it feel as if we are at the furthest point of a "journey" through time when the "journey" actually is over since the future already exists?

 

[thentian]

What the heck are you talking about? There is no illusion. Time is a dimension as is spacedimensions and we percevie it as we perceive a here and now. What is it you think is an illusion? I am at a specific point in time just as I am at a specific point in space.

If the past and the future are as real as the present then the present is an illusion. It is an arbitrary division where no division exists. An illusion of a division.

What creates this illusion?

Why does it feel as if we are at the furthest point of a "journey" through time when the "journey" actually is over since the future already exists?

And if what is outside my range of vision is as real as what is within it then what is within it is an illusion?

What creates this illusion?

Why do I feel as if I am here, when there are other places both to my right and to my left, and above me and below me?

 

[Juma]

What the heck are you talking about? There is no illusion. Time is a dimension as is spacedimensions and we percevie it as we perceive a here and now. What is it you think is an illusion? I am at a specific point in time just as I am at a specific point in space.

If the past and the future are as real as the present then the present is an illusion. It is an arbitrary division where no division exists. An illusion of a division.

What creates this illusion?

Why does it feel as if we are at the furthest point of a "journey" through time when the "journey" actually is over since the future already exists?

The journey is not over. We are always moving in time.

 

[untermensche]

If the past and the future are as real as the present then the present is an illusion. It is an arbitrary division where no division exists. An illusion of a division.

What creates this illusion?

Why does it feel as if we are at the furthest point of a "journey" through time when the "journey" actually is over since the future already exists?

And if what is outside my range of vision is as real as what is within it then what is within it is an illusion?

Yes. All is illusion if the past and future are as real as the present.

The apple is only an illusion because the time before the apple and the time after the apple is a real as the time with the apple.

My pain is an illusion because the time before it and the time after it is as real as the time with it.

But what allows me to see this apple that has not existed, exists, and doesn't exist any more, all at once?

- - - Updated - - -

If the past and the future are as real as the present then the present is an illusion. It is an arbitrary division where no division exists. An illusion of a division.

What creates this illusion?

Why does it feel as if we are at the furthest point of a "journey" through time when the "journey" actually is over since the future already exists?

The journey is not over. We are always moving in time.

If the future is real I am long dead as much as I am alive.

What gives me this illusion of only being alive?

 

[bilby]

And if what is outside my range of vision is as real as what is within it then what is within it is an illusion?

Yes. All is illusion if the past and future are as real as the present.

The apple is only an illusion because the time before the apple and the time after the apple is a real as the time with the apple.

My pain is an illusion because the time before it and the time after it is as real as the time with it.

But what allows me to see this apple that has not existed, exists, and doesn't exist any more, all at once?

- - - Updated - - -

If the past and the future are as real as the present then the present is an illusion. It is an arbitrary division where no division exists. An illusion of a division.

What creates this illusion?

Why does it feel as if we are at the furthest point of a "journey" through time when the "journey" actually is over since the future already exists?

The journey is not over. We are always moving in time.

If the future is real I am long dead as much as I am alive.

What gives me this illusion of only being alive?

The same thing that gives you the "illusion" of being wherever you are, and not on the surface of the Moon; or in orbit around Neptune; or at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean.

Or are you of the impression that only the place you are at is real?

 

[Juma]

If the future is real I am long dead as much as I am alive.

No. You will be dead in the future and you are alive when you read this.

Time being the fourth dimension doesnt make everything exist on the same time!!!

 

[Kharakov]

There are specific physical states that are specific points in 4 dimensional spacetime. If one can separate an area of spacetime from the rest with an event horizon which obfuscates all information transfer, one can achieve states of spacetime that are not influenced measurably by surrounding states. Within the event horizon one might find the initial conditions of our universe- thus the past could be intact.

Perhaps the past is recreated at the moment of creation of an event horizon or singularity- thus the past is recreated with every new black hole born. As this occurs occasionally within our universe, a new black hole could have a perfect copy of our early universe within it, although one would think that our universe would have some influence on the new one within itself, even if the boundary shape is the same (like a Mandelbrot's boundary shape is the same for the smaller versions of it within itself).

This would go along with fractal universe scenarios, in which each universe has smaller replications of itself with more complex boundary conditions than the original (which also has an infinitely complex boundary conditions- so the boundary conditions, which appear more complex, are not actually more complex).


So, there may be a way to time travel, but it would require one to create controllable black holes- or to find a way to traverse event horizons. One would also need to know the age of a black hole one entered, how the mass of the black hole influences the speed of the interior universes evolution, etc.


Within the new universe, other universes would appear, so the past would always exist within those universes as well.

 

[untermensche]

Yes. All is illusion if the past and future are as real as the present.

The apple is only an illusion because the time before the apple and the time after the apple is a real as the time with the apple.

My pain is an illusion because the time before it and the time after it is as real as the time with it.

But what allows me to see this apple that has not existed, exists, and doesn't exist any more, all at once?

- - - Updated - - -

If the past and the future are as real as the present then the present is an illusion. It is an arbitrary division where no division exists. An illusion of a division.

What creates this illusion?

Why does it feel as if we are at the furthest point of a "journey" through time when the "journey" actually is over since the future already exists?

The journey is not over. We are always moving in time.

If the future is real I am long dead as much as I am alive.

What gives me this illusion of only being alive?

The same thing that gives you the "illusion" of being wherever you are, and not on the surface of the Moon; or in orbit around Neptune; or at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean.

Or are you of the impression that only the place you are at is real?

But I am not just where I am. I am here and I am also thousands of miles away. I am at every point I have every been and every point I will ever be.

If the past and future is as real as the present.

If I am at all those places why do I have the illusion I am only in one place?

 

[untermensche]

If the future is real I am long dead as much as I am alive.

No. You will be dead in the future and you are alive when you read this.

Time being the fourth dimension doesnt make everything exist on the same time!!!

That is what some have said.

The have said the past and the future are just as real as the present.

So I am never born, alive, and long dead all at once.

Yet all I feel is alive.

Why this illusion?

 

[Juma]

No. You will be dead in the future and you are alive when you read this.

Time being the fourth dimension doesnt make everything exist on the same time!!!

That is what some have said.

The have said the past and the future are just as real as the present.

Which is not to say that all time exist at the same time... Duh.

 

[bilby]

Yes. All is illusion if the past and future are as real as the present.

The apple is only an illusion because the time before the apple and the time after the apple is a real as the time with the apple.

My pain is an illusion because the time before it and the time after it is as real as the time with it.

But what allows me to see this apple that has not existed, exists, and doesn't exist any more, all at once?

- - - Updated - - -

If the past and the future are as real as the present then the present is an illusion. It is an arbitrary division where no division exists. An illusion of a division.

What creates this illusion?

Why does it feel as if we are at the furthest point of a "journey" through time when the "journey" actually is over since the future already exists?

The journey is not over. We are always moving in time.

If the future is real I am long dead as much as I am alive.

What gives me this illusion of only being alive?

The same thing that gives you the "illusion" of being wherever you are, and not on the surface of the Moon; or in orbit around Neptune; or at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean.

Or are you of the impression that only the place you are at is real?

But I am not just where I am. I am here and I am also thousands of miles away. I am at every point I have every been and every point I will ever be.

If the past and future is as real as the present.

If I am at all those places why do I have the illusion I am only in one place?

You are in one place - just where you are. You are only in all those other places, if you ignore the fourth dimension; which would be a hugely stupid thing to do.

You might as well have written:

"I am not just at 27 degrees south latitude; I am here, and also 153 degrees west of here. I am at every longitude I have ever been, and every longitude I will ever be.

If the east and the west are as real as my current longitude.

If I am at all those longitudes, why do I have the illusion of being only at this longitude?"

You appear to be dreadfully confused as to what dimensions are. Until you can work this out (just using two or three dimensions if four are too hard for you), then we cannot even have a discussion about this.

 

[untermensche]

That is what some have said.

The have said the past and the future are just as real as the present.

Which is not to say that all time exist at the same time... Duh.

Of course.

But why at this arbitrary point am I unaware of future time yet aware of past time?

How am I making this artificial division of reality?

 

[untermensche]

You are in one place - just where you are. You are only in all those other places, if you ignore the fourth dimension; which would be a hugely stupid thing to do.

If the future is as real as the past which is as real as the present, then I am at no one place. I am in all past present and future places.

My thinking I am only in one place is an illusion.

But what creates this illusion?

You might as well have written:

"I am not just at 27 degrees south latitude; I am here, and also 153 degrees west of here. I am at every longitude I have ever been, and every longitude I will ever be.

If the east and the west are as real as my current longitude.

If I am at all those longitudes, why do I have the illusion of being only at this longitude?

What I would have written is:

I am not just at 27 degrees south latitude and also 153 degrees...........

If the east and the west in the past and future are as real as the current east and west.

You appear to be dreadfully confused as to what dimensions are. Until you can work this out (just using two or three dimensions if four are too hard for you), then we cannot even have a discussion about this.

You claim the past and future are as real as the present, yet you don't like the implications of this claim.

Implications like our consciousness of a present is an illusion.

 

[Juma]

Which is not to say that all time exist at the same time... Duh.

Of course.

But why at this arbitrary point am I unaware of future time yet aware of past time?

By same reason you are not in many places at the same time.

 

[untermensche]

Of course.

But why at this arbitrary point am I unaware of future time yet aware of past time?

By same reason you are not in many places at the same time.

If the past is as real as the present I AM in many places at any given moment.

I am here and am in every single place I have been and will be.

My thinking I am only here is an illusion.

 

[bilby]

If the future is as real as the past which is as real as the present, then I am at no one place. I am in all past present and future places.

My thinking I am only in one place is an illusion.

But what creates this illusion?

You might as well have written:

"I am not just at 27 degrees south latitude; I am here, and also 153 degrees west of here. I am at every longitude I have ever been, and every longitude I will ever be.

If the east and the west are as real as my current longitude.

If I am at all those longitudes, why do I have the illusion of being only at this longitude?

What I would have written is:

I am not just at 27 degrees south latitude and also 153 degrees...........

If the east and the west in the past and future are as real as the current east and west.

You appear to be dreadfully confused as to what dimensions are. Until you can work this out (just using two or three dimensions if four are too hard for you), then we cannot even have a discussion about this.

You claim the past and future are as real as the present, yet you don't like the implications of this claim.

Implications like our consciousness of a present is an illusion.

Even if that was implied (and it isn't), my liking or disliking it would have no bearing on its truth or falsehood.

You seem to struggle with the idea that stuff might both exist and be unpleasant to you.

You don't have to like something for it to be true; and your disliking something doesn't render it false.