Russia's Ghost Army in Ukraine

[Daioh]

Are you deliberately trying to misrepresent things here?

Did or did not Putin claim "Russia was not considering annexing Crimea."?
because if he did then his subsequent annexation of Crimea is a clear example of Putin saying one thing and doing another

Your link has Putin saying... "only citizens themselves, in conditions of free expression of will and their security can determine their future".

Doesn't that part just make it worse in light of the heavily armed Russian soldiers?
Again Putin Says=/=Putin does

A referendum was then held where the citizens chose to return to Russia.

And Russia decided, yeah we are annexing Crimea, like we said we weren't considering

 

[tupac chopra]

Doesn't that part just make it worse in light of the heavily armed Russian soldiers?

As the Nazi's from Kiev were murdering Crimeans by that time. Putin made sure that Crimea would be safe and peaceful during the referendum

Korsun massacre anniversary - what really pushed Crimea away from Ukraine

While the Ukrainian Euro-maidanites are celebrating the anniversary of the bloody coup, the supporters of Antimaidan begin to mark their own tragic dates. Exactly one year ago, on February 20, a bestial gang of Nazis from the "Right Sector" attacked a convoy of buses with Crimeans near Korsun, perpetrating a real slaughter and a massacre of the opponents of a nationalist coup.

Eight buses with Crimeans, who participated in Kiev in Antimaidan rallies, were returned home [after their opponents have won]. Near Korsun in Cherkasy oblast, the convoy was ambushed by the armed thugs from the Right Sector. As became known later, the Nazis were aware of the movement of the column and were expecting the Crimeans.

The captured buses were burned, their passengers were brutally tortured, beaten and humiliated. Several people were beaten to death and murdered.

The Crimeans asked to go back to Russia. Russia accepted them.
For some unexplained reason you seem unhappy
But the Crimeans are happy.

http://talkfreethought.org/showthread.php?4022-One-Year-Later-Crimeans-Prefer-Russia

 

[Ford]

Putin made sure that Crimea would be safe and peaceful during the referendum

Nothing says safe and peaceful like a referendum held under the barrels of the guns of the country that wants it to happen.

 

[tupac chopra]

Did or did not Putin claim "Russia was not considering annexing Crimea."?

Nothing you posted showed that.
Why are you putting inverted comma's around that sentence though? Are you saying Putin actually said those words?

- - - Updated - - -

Putin made sure that Crimea would be safe and peaceful during the referendum

Nothing says safe and peaceful like a referendum held under the barrels of the guns of the country that wants it to happen.

It's peaceful today. Unlike Ukraine which is in a state of civil war. A civil war which started when your tax dollars orchestrated a violent coup in Kiev.
Though you don't seem perturbed when your tax dollars are spent starting wars, and coups.

Ohhhh...hang on maybe you think you are liberating Ukraine, like you liberated Iraq?

 

[Daioh]

Nothing you posted showed that.

So what did Putin say about Crimea, Russias stance on it and the possibility of Annexation?

Why are you putting inverted comma's around that sentence though?

I copy/pasted the words from the Wiki article
I always try to put quote marks when it's an actual quote from a different source (And not my own writing)

Are you saying Putin actually said those words?

Not necessarily in that order (The article probably did paraphrase his orignal statement)
But yes I do believe he did say something to that effect

 

[Ford]

A civil war which started when your tax dollars orchestrated a violent coup in Kiev.

At what point are you going to stop spreading this lie? When the checks from Moscow run out?

 

[tupac chopra]

So what did Putin say about Crimea, Russias stance on it and the possibility of Annexation?

Why are you putting inverted comma's around that sentence though?

I copy/pasted the words from the Wiki article
I always try to put quote marks when it's an actual quote from a different source (And not my own writing)

Are you saying Putin actually said those words?

Not necessarily in that order (The article probably did paraphrase his orignal statement)
But yes I do believe he did say something to that effect

The statement in WIKI which did quote Putin said nothing of the sort.

 

[tupac chopra]

A civil war which started when your tax dollars orchestrated a violent coup in Kiev.

At what point are you going to stop spreading this lie? When the checks from Moscow run out?

Ok even George Friedman from Stratfor admitted the coup.

`Russia has repeatedly said that the coup in Kiev was organized by the US, Friedman told Kommersant newspaper. Indeed, it was the most overt coup in history, the political analyst stressed.''

But somehow you think there was no coup, or that the US was not involved...or?

 

[Ford]

...or?

Your sources are shit.

I mean, it is odd that your position is pretty much exactly what's being pushed by the Kremlin.

What's the exchange rate for rubles, again?

 

[tupac chopra]

...or?

I mean, it is odd that your position is pretty much exactly what's being pushed by the Kremlin.

Even a stopped watch is right twice a day. But you need to deal with George Friedman, not just the Kremlin.

What is so odd about America organizing a regime change when the leader was inclined towards Russia. Is that really odd?

 

[Daioh]

The statement in WIKI which did quote Putin said nothing of the sort.

it did say "On 4 March, Russian President Vladimir Putin claimed Russia was not considering annexing Crimea."

 

[Ford]

What is so odd about America organizing a regime change when the leader was inclined towards Russia. Is that really odd?

It is odd if you have zero evidence that such a thing actually happened.


You've already admitted that Russian troops were in Crimea and active in Ukraine, so you seem to grasp the basic fact that when it comes to military intervention, Russia is actually involved in the process, but then you go off on this fantasy tangent about how it's all the fault of the US.


Since you brought up regime change and Iraq, it is worth pointing out that in that situation, the US was pretty up front about their intentions. Justifications for the war aside, nobody in the US government denied that American tanks, planes, and soldiers were operating in Iraq.


Contrast that with Russia and your official propaganda.


You'd have us believe that the Kremlin has absolutely nothing to do with what's happening in Ukraine. It is all Nazis and the West, according to you.


Why do you continue to perpetrate this lie? How much are you getting paid?

 

[tupac chopra]

The statement in WIKI which did quote Putin said nothing of the sort.

it did say "On 4 March, Russian President Vladimir Putin claimed Russia was not considering annexing Crimea."

For goodness sakes. Do you know what you are reading?

Putin's quote did not say anything about "annexation". It said
"only citizens themselves, in conditions of free expression of will and their security can determine their future"

Then whoever edited the Wikipedia page (possibly someone from the Whitehouse) tried to make that quote say something it did not say.

So you aren't quoting Putin you are quoting whoever edited that page.

Help from the Hill: Wikipedia-lovers from US House of Reps edited Russia articles

 

[tupac chopra]

What is so odd about America organizing a regime change when the leader was inclined towards Russia. Is that really odd?

It is odd if you have zero evidence that such a thing actually happened.

Try google

You've already admitted that Russian troops were in Crimea

Yes Russia had an agreement o have up to 25,000 in Crimea from long before all this.

and active in Ukraine,

Possibly ones on leave who were concerned about their friends and families, yes.

so you seem to grasp the basic fact that when it comes to military intervention, Russia is actually involved in the process, but then you go off on this fantasy tangent about how it's all the fault of the US.

There was no war before the coup.

Since you brought up regime change and Iraq, it is worth pointing out that in that situation, the US was pretty up front about their intentions. Justifications for the war aside, nobody in the US government denied that American tanks, planes, and soldiers were operating in Iraq.

Pretty hard to deny, as opposed to Ukraine where American politicians have to present fake photgraphs.
In Thirst For War, Sen. Inhofe Releases Fake Photos Of Russian Troops In Ukraine

Contrast that with Russia and your official propaganda.

See above

You'd have us believe that the Kremlin has absolutely nothing to do with what's happening in Ukraine.

At the very least they are turning a blind eye to off duty soldiers going to assist their friends and relatives. There is probably more to it, but evidence is lacking.

It is all Nazis and the West, according to you.

They play their part

 

[tupac chopra]

Again, how much is Moscow paying you to push this shit?
Off duty soldiers going to "visit" Ukraine with their tanks?

I could be wrong. Which tanks are you talking about?

And why then did Senator Inhofe have to post fake pictures of tanks?

 

[tupac chopra]

Here are some tanks for you.
http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/126483

 

[Daioh]

For goodness sakes. Do you know what you are reading?

Wikipedia

Putin's quote did not say anything about "annexation".

Yes the second part where a direct quote was put out didn't say that
The first part, the paraphrasing of Putins remark DID mention Putins remarks about annexation
You do realise that bit was in two parts?

(possibly someone from the Whitehouse)

Do you have evidence they ever touched this piece?

 

[tupac chopra]

Wikipedia

Putin's quote did not say anything about "annexation".

Yes the second part where a direct quote was put out didn't say that
The first part, the paraphrasing of Putins remark DID mention Putins remarks about annexation
You do realise that bit was in two parts?

You still don't get it . There is no paraphrasing going on. There is Putin mentioning one thing and some dickhead who wrote the Wikipedia piece twisting it into something else.
You have no quote with Putin mentioning "annexation" or even anything like that.

(possibly someone from the Whitehouse)

Do you have evidence they ever touched this piece?

Well we do know they were editing Wikipedia about events in Crimea so it's a real possibility.

 

[Daioh]

Well we do know they were editing Wikipedia about events in Crimea so it's a real possibility.

So thats a no then?
You have only speculation and wild accusations that the article has been tampered with and is otherwise inaccurate

 

[tupac chopra]

Well we do know they were editing Wikipedia about events in Crimea so it's a real possibility.

So thats a no then?
You have only speculation and wild accusations that the article has been tampered with and is otherwise inaccurate

You are the first New Zealander I have met without a sense of humour