Disillusioned Americans, Disillusioned World

[none]

Maybe this is a topic worthy of discussion, it is about disillusionment that we Americans and the world are dealing with.
I think I found some structure to the problem...
After WWI people found inspiration in Marilyn Monroe, still euphoric on the accomplishment of the war. Then Marilyn died and the affectation she showed for John F. Kennedy died too and people saw the fallibility of celebrity, it wasn't enough to keep her happy or alive.
Then Kennedy is assassinated, and people realized the fallibility of our accomplished government even if they didn't like Kennedy he still was the President of our great nation. Kennedy's death was another source of disillusionment of society and our way of managing society ( our government ).
Then love and peace was infiltrated with narcotics and then love and peace were no longer seen as an ideal to strive for given the deaths of those celebrities perceived as leaders of the movement and the nation became disillusioned with "the peace and love movement".
Then to correct the situation Reagan (another promise of hope to restore the US) started the war on drugs and the "peace and love movement" was under full attack, nobody wanted to face further disillusionment.
Then the space shuttle disaster occurred and science became a victim of the disillusionment of the celebrity of science, science could not save our heroes.
In my opinion nobody wants to relive tragedy but to do so you have to commit the value of celebrity (story), peace, love, liberty, nation, science and understanding, and lastly faith that those things bring goodness.
What'cha think?

 

[Nexus]

I think the steady erosion of well paying middle class jobs over the last few decades is the greatest cause of disillusion in America.

 

[rousseau]

Disillusionment is inevitable when you realize that most of the world has been premised on a series of deep-rooted lies. It's not so bad when you realize that's just how things work, though.

 

[untermensche]

I think the steady erosion of well paying middle class jobs over the last few decades is the greatest cause of disillusion in America.

There were only a few decades (1950's, 60's and 70's) in US history where there were many good paying middle class jobs and the hope your children would have a better life than you had.

This all ended for good with the election of Reagan in 1980.

Since then it has been nothing but downhill for the US middle class.

The thing that helped the middle class the most were unions.

As they have been killed off so have the dreams of the middle class.

 

[scombrid]

I think the steady erosion of well paying middle class jobs over the last few decades is the greatest cause of disillusion in America.

There's a 55+ housing development just up the road from me (I basically live in a retirement community being that I live in Brevard County, FL) that is on "Old Glory Lane" and the sales sign out front said "Where Patriots Like to Live".

Houses in there are all fully detached 2500-4500 square foot units that sell for 300k and up. HOA fees are steep in there as well as it is a "maintenance free lifestyle" with lots of golf. Irony is that a lot of the people retiring in there are on fat union pensions. They are northerners that worked for GE, GM, Chrystler, NYPD, FDNY, etc... They got theirs I suppose. But they retire to Florida on that fat pension and vote for Rick Scott because they are great patriotic Americans and Sean Hannity told them so. They also are very demanding of government though they refuse to pay for anything. They don't even have to buy a fishing license even though they fish the most and complain the most at public meetings.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I think the steady erosion of well paying middle class jobs over the last few decades is the greatest cause of disillusion in America.

There's a 55+ housing development just up the road from me (I basically live in a retirement community being that I live in Brevard County, FL) that is on "Old Glory Lane" and the sales sign out front said "Where Patriots Like to Live".

Houses in there are all fully detached 2500-4500 square foot units that sell for 300k and up. HOA fees are steep in there as well as it is a "maintenance free lifestyle" with lots of golf. Irony is that a lot of the people retiring in there are on fat union pensions. They are northerners that worked for GE, GM, Chrystler, NYPD, FDNY, etc... They got theirs I suppose. But they retire to Florida on that fat pension and vote for Rick Scott because they are great patriotic Americans and Sean Hannity told them so. They also are very demanding of government though they refuse to pay for anything. They don't even have to buy a fishing license even though they fish the most and complain the most at public meetings.

Why is that an irony? That's what happens when people get theirs. When my old man was raising a family he worshipped the ground democrats walked on. After he retired on his fat union pension with bennies he never missed a Rush Limbaugh broadcast and he thought there were too many environmentalists. When I see this happen it's proof to me that liberalism works. Otherwise he's have never retired or had a decent job and been dirt poor all his life.

 

[none]

I must have got pretty close with my analysis in the OP, which is cool for me..

 

[bilby]

OK, I see the 'Disillusioned Americans' bit in the OP; but while that is all very sad for Americans, I don't see where any part of the OP is disillusioning the other 95% of the planetary population.

Perhaps a better title would have been "Disillusioned America, Rest of World doesn't care about our problems though".

 

[none]

OK, I see the 'Disillusioned Americans' bit in the OP; but while that is all very sad for Americans, I don't see where any part of the OP is disillusioning the other 95% of the planetary population.

Perhaps a better title would have been "Disillusioned America, Rest of World doesn't care about our problems though".

they don't appear to now, could it be because they are disillusioned with America?
I think so.
you have to tell me the people in other countries who aren't Americans and waving American flags have always been disillusioned with America, please no...

 

[bilby]

OK, I see the 'Disillusioned Americans' bit in the OP; but while that is all very sad for Americans, I don't see where any part of the OP is disillusioning the other 95% of the planetary population.

Perhaps a better title would have been "Disillusioned America, Rest of World doesn't care about our problems though".

they don't appear to now, could it be because they are disillusioned with America?
I think so.
you have to tell me the people in other countries who aren't Americans and waving American flags have always been disillusioned with America, please no...

The majority of non-Americans don't care about America at all. Of those who do, America haters have outweighed America lovers for as long as America has been a world power.

The world isn't disillusioned with America; we were never illusioned with her.

If you imagine that there are large numbers of foreigners waving the US flag and wishing they were more like you, or if you imagine that there ever were, then you might need to turn off Fox News and come and visit some of the rest of the world.

 

[none]

The majority of non-Americans don't care about America at all. Of those who do, America haters have outweighed America lovers for as long as America has been a world power.

ok so there is a minority in the world that aren't disillusioned with America,
That is the world I am talking about not those who oppose the US.
And it doesn't matter to me the percentage of who is who.
Those that once cherished America but see a failure now are disillusioned, they are out there in the world and they exist.

The world isn't disillusioned with America; we were never illusioned with her.

ok, this might be worth talking about.
Your comment seems kind of vague.
who is her?

If you imagine that there are large numbers of foreigners waving the US flag and wishing they were more like you, or if you imagine that there ever were, then you might need to turn off Fox News and come and visit some of the rest of the world.

[sarcasm]yeah that is why there is no immigration because they don't want the American dream.[/sarcasm]
we got people coming here, some of them actually want to be here and some just come temporarily to live the American dream.
What do you think the American dream is?
Do you think only Americans can have the American dream? no wonder the world hates us.....

 

[bilby]

ok so there is a minority in the world that aren't disillusioned with America,
That is the world I am talking about not those who oppose the US.

A minority is not 'The world', any more than the USA is 'The world'

And it doesn't matter to me the percentage of who is who.
Those that once cherished America but see a failure now are disillusioned, they are out there in the world and they exist.

Perhaps so, but they are swamped by those who simply don't care. They are even outnumbered by those who care, because they hate.

The world isn't disillusioned with America; we were never illusioned with her.

ok, this might be worth talking about.
Your comment seems kind of vague.
who is her?

In the English speaking world, we refer to nations using feminine pronouns.

In this context, 'her' can only refer to 'America'.

If you imagine that there are large numbers of foreigners waving the US flag and wishing they were more like you, or if you imagine that there ever were, then you might need to turn off Fox News and come and visit some of the rest of the world.

[sarcasm]yeah that is why there is no immigration because they don't want the American dream.[/sarcasm]
we got people coming here, some of them actually want to be here and some just come temporarily to live the American dream.
What do you think the American dream is?

From where I am sitting, the American dream appears to be that the rest of the world will one day care deeply about America. Dream on.

Lots of places are horrible shitholes with totalitarian governments. People from such places would prefer to live in less shitty places; the USA is one such place, but far from the only one.

Plenty of countries have high net immigration. Dreaming of a new life in America is not much more common than dreaming of a new life in the UK, Germany, Scandinavia, or Australasia. This despite US propaganda about how great America is for migrants.

 

[none]

A minority is not 'The world', any more than the USA is 'The world'

so what, there are people out there that are disillusioned with America.
When I say the world I mean it, the world is disillusioned and that is my opinion.
Please stop the use of true scotsmen fallacy to discredit what I said about the world.
People in the world are disillusioned, some disillusioned with the US.
Seriously the world is disillusioned, and some of it disillusioned with America.

And it doesn't matter to me the percentage of who is who.
Those that once cherished America but see a failure now are disillusioned, they are out there in the world and they exist.

Perhaps so, but they are swamped by those who simply don't care.
They are even outnumbered by those who care, because they hate.

Hate like the hate people have that hate foriengers who want to come here to live the American dream?
Foreigners who want to live the dream are hated all over the world by foreigners and are hated by Americans too.
People who hate the American dream hate the same people most if not all Americans hate, and those are people who want to come here and live the American dream and they are "foreigners" ( people who wait for citizenship and those who don't wait for citizenship ) .

The world isn't disillusioned with America; we were never illusioned with her.

ok, this might be worth talking about.
Your comment seems kind of vague.
who is her?

In the English speaking world, we refer to nations using feminine pronouns.
In this context, 'her' can only refer to 'America'.

Who is we?
Why use the word "her" in the first place?

If you imagine that there are large numbers of foreigners waving the US flag and wishing they were more like you, or if you imagine that there ever were, then you might need to turn off Fox News and come and visit some of the rest of the world.

[sarcasm]yeah that is why there is no immigration because they don't want the American dream.[/sarcasm]
we got people coming here, some of them actually want to be here and some just come temporarily to live the American dream.
What do you think the American dream is?

From where I am sitting, the American dream appears to be that the rest of the world will one day care deeply about America. Dream on.

I don't care about the world so much as America, the bigger America is the better. ( and I am talking territory with jurisdiciton )
America might manifest itself outside the boundries of the United States, it has done it before.
If the American dream is that America shouldn't manifest itself where it didn't always exist then the United States shouldn't have been created, right?

Lots of places are horrible shitholes with totalitarian governments. People from such places would prefer to live in less shitty places; the USA is one such place, but far from the only one.

I am thinking you meant to say people from shitholes should have the American dream, but not in the US,

Plenty of countries have high net immigration. Dreaming of a new life in America is not much more common than dreaming of a new life in the UK, Germany, Scandinavia, or Australasia. This despite US propaganda about how great America is for migrants.

I kind of agree people who don't want to have the American dream really have no reason to come here.
If people want to come here and live the American dream in the US I think they should be allowed to come here and live the American dream and those that don't want the live the American dream in America should be kept out, no citizenship on US territory.

 

[tupac chopra]

so what, there are people out there that are disillusioned with America.
.

I fucking love America and love Americans. I'll be going back there later this year and am very much looking forward to it. My trip there last year was the highlight of a pretty amazing year
I think people are disillusioned with the Empire, more than America. But i think that as the Empire fades away America itself could blossom.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Fall-Empire-Development-Environment/dp/8230004927

Most of the world loves America but not American imperialism

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/15/i_love_the_us_republic_and

 

[none]

I fucking love America and love Americans. I'll be going back there later this year and am very much looking forward to it. My trip there last year was the highlight of a pretty amazing year
I think people are disillusioned with the Empire, more than America. But i think that as the Empire fades away America itself could blossom.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Fall-Empire-Development-Environment/dp/8230004927

Most of the world loves America but not American imperialism

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/15/i_love_the_us_republic_and

Commerce has been global for a while I don't see it going away.
In my opinion America is going to influence as long as there is commerce, and if an enemy of the US is not going to business with the US somebody else will.
America is doing business with the whole world basically, even North Korea is influenced by US economic policy and we don't do business with them directly.
I wonder what would happen if Israel became a US territory via purchase or any of our other Allies' territories for that matter.
I could see it happen if people get poor enough, because it happened before look at the west coast from California to Alaska basically.
But that is just a thought I have.