Do you think any aliens exist in the universe?

[steve_bank]

From an old CS course on theory of computation pre AI for a problem to be solvable it must be Turng Commutable. Meaning a Turing Machine which the modern PC is, without infinite memory. IO) it6 mus to be solvable.

Deci9deability in part is a fundamental problem in logic. The processor in a PC makes decisions based in logic, AND, OR, etc. Logic can not resolve a logical conundrum or paradox.

I ran into problems coding where you 'can't there there form here' because it is logically impossible.

I don't know much about AI algorithms but it is algorithmic. AI uses fuzzy logic, which makes decisions based on weighted inputs and weighted data. It is like a balance beam. There are no deterministic logic values to trigger a decision point.

In the balancee beam, seesaw, analogy any number of combinations of wights and positions on the seesaw can balance the seesaw.

In AI you could call that learned intuition.

Fuzzy logic processors predate AI and can learn or be taught from data.

AI is not fuzzy logic rather, fuzzy logic is a technique used within AI to help systems make decisions based on vague or imprecise information, similar to how humans do. While traditional AI might rely on strict, binary logic (true or false), fuzzy logic allows for degrees of truth, which makes it useful for complex, real-world applications where data is not perfectly clear.

And as we know AI like humans can make mistakes.

 

[pood]

Scientists say they have proof the universe cannot be a simulation.

 

[excreationist]

Scientists say they have proof the universe cannot be a simulation.

In other words, if the laws of physics can’t be reduced to pure computation, then neither can the universe.

Like I was saying in post #680 I DON'T think the possible simulation involves pure computation - I think it relies heavily on AI. That article seems to make NO mention of AI.

This shows what very cheap AI is capable of at this point in time:



Those videos don't involve "truths that no algorithm—no matter how advanced—can ever compute".

They just generate images and voices - not "truths".

And you never answered my question: do you think it would ever be possible for a brain to be hooked up to a simulation like this:



Maybe they were influenced by the Matrix movies where there is clear computer code running EVERYTHING. (which I reject)

I guess you could have a NPC (non-player character) in a possible simulation and ask them mathematical or logical questions. If they aren't capable of answering some of them it doesn't prove that they're not in a simulation. That's the way that a simulation could evaluate mathematical/logical contructs - not through some kind of code that runs through everything.

So I think the AI is more like your brain than a computer involving a precise mathematical and logical structure. It is more like fuzzy logic than something that can calculate precise "truths".

BTW this is how an AI normally generates images:



it starts with random noise and then gradually generates images based on things that it had been trained on... which is very different from the absolute precision that mathematical statements involve....

Generative AI Research Spotlight: Demystifying Diffusion-Based Models | NVIDIA Technical Blog

With Internet-scale data, the computational demands of AI-generated content have grown significantly, with data centers running full steam for weeks or months to train a single model—not to mention…

developer.nvidia.com

So in the link you shared they "prove" that their mechanism behind a simulation doesn't work. And I don't believe in the kind of simulation they had proposed anyway. I believe in a much cheaper technique based on AI. (a bit like the videos I shared)

 

[pood]

AI is algorithmic, though not all algorithms are AI. The science paper is telling us it is mathematically impossible that the universe is algorithmic, as I understand it. Therefore any kind of idea that we live in a simulation is ruled out.

This simulation argument, even if true (which the linked paper argues cannot be true) reminds me of deism or Last Thursdayism. Even if true, who cares?

 

[excreationist]

AI is algorithmic, though not all algorithms are AI. The science paper is telling us it is mathematically impossible that the universe is algorithmic, as I understand it. Therefore any kind of idea that we live in a simulation is ruled out.

The problem they pointed out had to do with Gödel’s incompleteness theorems - even if AI is algorithmic it doesn't mean it has to worry about Gödel’s incompleteness theorems. Advanced video games in the future don't need to deal with Gödel’s.

This simulation argument, even if true (which the linked paper argues cannot be true) reminds me of deism or Last Thursdayism. Even if true, who cares?

You seem to care when it is easy to reply then don't care if the issues are difficult for you. BTW can you respond to the brain in a vat question - do you think it would ever be possible for a brain to be hooked up to a simulation?

 

[pood]

AI is algorithmic, though not all algorithms are AI. The science paper is telling us it is mathematically impossible that the universe is algorithmic, as I understand it. Therefore any kind of idea that we live in a simulation is ruled out.

The problem they pointed out had to do with Gödel’s incompleteness theorems - even if AI is algorithmic it doesn't mean it has to worry about Gödel’s incompleteness theorems.

This simulation argument, even if true (which the linked paper argues cannot be true) reminds me of deism or Last Thursdayism. Even if true, who cares?

You seem to care when it is easy to reply then don't care if the issues are difficult for you. BTW can you respond to the brain in a vat question - do you think it would ever be possible for a brain to be hooked up to a simulation?

No,

 

[pood]

And the issues aren’t difficult for me. You have no evidence we live in a simulation, It just seems to be something you prefer to believe,

The linked paper shows we cannot be living in a simulation,

But again, even if we somewhere were, who cares? How is it different from, and as completely empty as, saying, “Goddidit’?

I’ll stick with the reality we have.

 

[pood]

Debunking brains in vats.

 

[excreationist]

Debunking brains in vats.

Thanks that was a good reply. I guess the first step is to send images to the brain.

 

[excreationist]

And the issues aren’t difficult for me. You have no evidence we live in a simulation, It just seems to be something you prefer to believe,

Well there's this:

That could evenutally be combined with VR. Post #589 shows very human-like voices interacting with people in real time.

The linked paper shows we cannot be living in a simulation,

It doesn't make sense that the simulation has to deal with Gödel’s incompleteness theorems. (when using AI)

But again, even if we somewhere were, who cares? How is it different from, and as completely empty as, saying, “Goddidit’?

Well I've got AI videos that show some things are possible. Goddidit involved magic.

 

[pood]

Yes, all sorts of wonderful and utterly empty stuff will be possible with AI and VR, most of it destructive,

Nobody has shown that any of this stuff can create conscious and self-aware entities inside this crap.

But then, I guess you have said most/all living inside our supposed simulation are p zombies except … you?

 

[pood]

I think all this is rather sad, actually. I read the people are seeking out AI girlfriends, AI turns out crap art that some people think is just swell. When AI is asked to turn out simple summaries it bollixes everything up. Sure, it will get better. Even so, I will always prefer a real-life girlfriend and to write and think for myself.

 

[pood]

Ain’t this nice? Good going, high-tech hucksters.

 

[excreationist]

Yes, all sorts of wonderful and utterly empty stuff will be possible with AI and VR, most of it destructive,

Nobody has shown that any of this stuff can create conscious and self-aware entities inside this crap.

Well it can create entities that can *seem* to be conscious and self-aware:

That is from a year ago. In a century it would be even better.

But then, I guess you have said most/all living inside our supposed simulation are p zombies except … you?

Yes that would save a huge amount of money - at the moment AI companies can be losing huge amounts of money so I think that is an important factor. I'm talking about simulations that make sense in theory not straw men where every atom needs to be explicitly simulated, etc.

 

[pood]

What we see yet again is a whole generation of what FDR contemptuously labeled “self seekers” who only care about their own wallets and care nothing for the public good. This is also a good example of why we need philosophy. I am sure none of the assholes who make these reckless things ever studied any philosophy, and never took even elementary courses on morals and ethics. It’s just like the line from Jurassic Park — sure you can do this, but did you ever ask yourself SHOULD you do it?

 

[pood]

Yes, all sorts of wonderful and utterly empty stuff will be possible with AI and VR, most of it destructive,

Nobody has shown that any of this stuff can create conscious and self-aware entities inside this crap.

Well it can create entities that can *seem* to be conscious and self-aware:

That is from a year ago. In a century it would be even better.

But then, I guess you have said most/all living inside our supposed simulation are p zombies except … you?

Yes that would save a huge amount of money - at the moment AI companies can be losing huge amounts of money so I think that is an important factor. I'm talking about simulations that make sense in theory not straw men where every atom needs to be explicitly simulated, etc.

I don’t give a fuck what they SEEM to be, ARE they?

And, if we could make conscious entities, will they also be going around offering to write suicide notes for adolescents?

Do you seriously believe you are the only conscious entity that lives in what you imagine to believe a simulated universe?

 

[excreationist]

Well it can create entities that can *seem* to be conscious and self-aware:

I don’t give a fuck what they SEEM to be, ARE they?

No - they seem *seem* to be. It's like that experiment where the person had to press a button and the other guy would scream in pain as if he got an electric shock. He actually was just acting but the first person believed that it was real pain.

And, if we could make conscious entities, will they also be going around offering to write suicide notes for adolescents?

I don't see the point in creating conscious entities even if they were possible. All that is requried is that they seem to be conscious. Also it didn't require a person in that experiment to be experiencing genuine pain.

Do you seriously believe you are the only conscious entity that lives in what you imagine to believe a simulated universe?

I think that is significantly likely but not definite. Like how animals are slaughtered and skinned for my food I don't really want to think about it too much.

 

[pood]

Do you seriously believe you are the only conscious entity that lives in what you imagine to believe a simulated universe?

I think that is significantly likely but not definite. Like how animals are slaughtered and skinned for my food I don't really want to think about it too much.

So … you are a solipsist.

Dude.

So, what … we are all p zombies inside a video game except for you?

You realize there is a difference between a simulation and a video game?

 

[pood]

TBH, and trying not to be offensive, this is not mentally healthy thinking,

 

[excreationist]

I think that is significantly likely but not definite. Like how animals are slaughtered and skinned for my food I don't really want to think about it too much.

So … you are a solipsist.

I believe people outside of the simulation are conscious though so maybe I'm not a perfect solipsist. It's like being in a dream where the other characters aren't truly other individuals.

Dude.

So, what … we are all p zombies inside a video game except for you?

You realize there is a difference between a simulation and a video game?

Well I'm talking about video games (like the Roy game) because people can think simulations require every single atom to be faithfully simulated, etc.

TBH, and trying not to be offensive, this is not mentally healthy thinking,

I've said that before. Also I don't think it would be a good idea for me to watch the animals I'm going to eat be killed, skinned, gutted, etc, even though that would involve me facing reality.