Do Atheists believe in Heaven?

[steve_bank]

So Learner, are you on a mission from god and Jesus to teach us the truth?

I see you are familiar with the term blowjob. Do you enjoy oral sex, it is not prohibited in the bible.

Is it true that it is better to give than reverie?

 

[unapologetic]

if Jesus says there's a heaven, then there's a heaven.

If prez Rump says there's an Antifa, then there's an Antifa.

It's means the opposite of 'lording it' over others for selfish reasons.

As if gwad and his church doesn't do that.

but it's highly relevant as an important principle of Christ. Your view on the matter has zero affect to the principle.

Christ's view on the matter has zero affect to the principle.

Bringing up "irrelevant" as your responses is a slick way not to answer, Jesus's non existence

Jesus' existance or not is irrelevant to me. His cult is harmful and hateful.

it includes those who don't give a shite for anyone else but themselves.

I hope you are not implying me. I care about people. I don't give a shit about gwad, jebus, or their cult.

It won't be much of a protection racket when people actually start following Jesus...love your neighbours and enemies. It's not good for business or Dictatorship kingships.

The protection racket is great for the churchs' business. And the presthood and his kingship pope.

Archaeologists largely use the bible for it's accuracy for ancient historic places,

NO they don't.
It doesn't give the location of anything. At best it's one of several sources for conformation of a place's existence.

People get abused even killed for blowjobs..
..I guess you could understand why it's not as delightfully simple a concept as you'd like an ideal heaven to be.

People get abused even killed for money.
So give up money.
I am not sure what you are saying here, but I don't expect anything from your heaven. It doesn't exist. Blowjobs were mentioned as a joke.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

People get abused even killed for blowjobs..
..I guess you could understand why it's not as delightfully simple a concept as you'd like an ideal heaven to be.

People also murder for your god and your god murders for himself. So by that logic there should be no god in your heaven.

 

[southernhybrid]

People get abused even killed for blowjobs..
..I guess you could understand why it's not as delightfully simple a concept as you'd like an ideal heaven to be.

People also murder for your god and your god murders for himself. So by that logic there should be no god in your heaven.

https://www.ourhistory.org.uk/holy-...conflicts-fought-in-the-name-of-christianity/

it's worse than just murders. Christianity has been responsible for many brutal wars throughout history. So much for that all loving Jesus who inspires people to love each other. I'll take the Humanist philosophy any day over the Christian one. Humanists don't threaten anyone with hell. Humanist support religious freedom as long as it's kept out of government. Humanists accept the LBGTQ community, despise[ racism etc. The early Christians in the US used the Bible to justify slavery. I could go on, but it's quite obvious that Christianity has done more harm than good. I'm not saying there aren't some good parts in the Bible and some good Christians, but there are plenty of people who are atheists, agnostic, or who believe in other gods who are just as moral as any of the better Christians. Religion and heaven is just wishful thinking but I realize that some people need it for better or worse.

Throughout history, Christianity has been invoked to justify numerous wars, crusades, and violent campaigns—often in stark contradiction to the faith’s central teachings of peace, love, and “turning the other cheek.” From the early medieval period through the modern era, these conflicts have shaped nations, redrawn borders, and left millions dead in their wake.

The Crusades: Holy Land bloodshed (1095-1291)​

When Pope Urban II called for the First Crusade in 1095, he unleashed nearly two centuries of intermittent warfare justified by Christian zeal. Supposedly launched to reclaim Jerusalem and the Holy Land from Muslim control, the Crusades exemplified how religious fervour could be harnessed for political and territorial gain.

The First Crusade succeeded in capturing Jerusalem in 1099, but what followed was a massacre that contradicted Christian principles of mercy and compassion. Crusaders slaughtered Muslims and Jews indiscriminately—men, women, and children—until, according to contemporary accounts, knights rode through blood reaching their horses’ knees.

 

[lostone]

Pleasure of any sort has always been rejected as corrupt by those with a religious bent of mind. Not just the Jewish faiths, upon which Christianity and Islam are based, but Hinduism and Buddhism as well. For both men and women, women also being viewed as inferior for (or because of) their earthiness; the only pleasure the holy people will allow us is worshipping the glory of their 'creator'.

Those churches, preachers, and priests, do, OTOH, accept money from almost any source.

 

[pood]

I have knowledge this was written by his followers

It was not written by his followers, but decades after his death. So your supposed “knowledge” is not knowledge at all.

and that Jesus was the truth

Evidence?

Truth is at the utmost, highly emphasised on in the bible. I mean... if Jesus says there's a heaven, then there's a heaven.

If I say pigs have wings and can fly, then pigs have wings and can fly.

WTF kind of argument are you making?

 

[Learner]

I have knowledge this was written by his followers

It was not written by his followers, but decades after his death. So your supposed “knowledge” is not knowledge at all.

Yeah sure, as the logic often portrays the flawed atheist argument (a deliberate deception perhaps).

You are actually saying without realising that just because of a "few decades later" "people are incapable to recall 'specific' events".

As I say, your response implies the false notion, as if saying... this goes against the laws of nature/or physics to 'retain experiences' in the memories of humans that exceeds more than 10 years to ever be capable to write about those experiences.

We call them biographies.

There various reasons why these are written later!

A few decades? What a load a tosh.

and that Jesus was the truth

Evidence?

from the above,..
The testimonies from the memoirs of the writers.

Truth is at the utmost, highly emphasised on in the bible. I mean... if Jesus says there's a heaven, then there's a heaven.

If I say pigs have wings and can fly, then pigs have wings and can fly.

WTF kind of argument are you making?

Well it's not difficult to reason that I may have various reasons( understanding)...

...I mean for example, I am unaware of what you preached.


(I have a previous post of yours I didn't get to respond to. I'll reply a little more to that post...bear with me)

 

[pood]

I have knowledge this was written by his followers

It was not written by his followers, but decades after his death. So your supposed “knowledge” is not knowledge at all.

Yeah sure, as the logic often portrays the flawed atheist argument (a deliberate deception perhaps).

You are actually saying without realising that just because of a "few decades later" "people are incapable to recall 'specific' events".

As I say, your response implies the false notion, as if saying... this goes against the laws of nature/or physics to 'retain experiences' in the memories of humans that exceeds more than 10 years to ever be capable to write about those experiences.

We call them biographies.

There various reasons why these are written later!

A few decades? What a load a tosh.

None of the writers were eyewitnesses. There is not even any evidence that they spoke to eyewitnesses. The stories of Jesus were passed down by oral tradition, like so much else back then. Oral passing on of stories is notoriously unreliable and, back then, would have prone to all sorts of supernatural embellishments since the world was full superstition and already infused with resurrection myths from the Greeks. So, again, you have no evidence.

and that Jesus was the truth

Evidence?

from the above,..
The testimonies from the memoirs of the writers.

As explained, that is not evidence.

Again, you would think that if Jesus did all the amazing things attributed to him, there would have been contemporaneous accounts by actual eyewitnesses.

But there aren’t.

This strongly suggests that while Jesus himself might have lived, a mythical account of him grew over time that was later written down.

 

[steve_bank]

Religion is an addictive pleasure.

Try and take it away or threaten it and they kick and scream like a heroin addict in withdrawal.

You did no just go to a neighborhood store and buy a notebook and pencils.

The disciples who were fishermen or carpenters/handymen were provably literate.

In Israel at the time of Jesus (first century CE), the common writing materials were
papyrus and parchment (treated animal skins), typically in the form of scrolls or early bound books called codices. Other materials like wood, clay, and stone were also used for everyday notes or permanent inscriptions.
Primary Writing Surfaces

Parchment/Vellum: This was the primary material for important Jewish religious texts, including the scriptures. Prepared animal skins (sheep, goat, or calf) were durable and could last a long time, though they were expensive. The Dead Sea Scrolls, which date to this period, are mostly written on parchment.
Papyrus: Made from the pith of the papyrus plant, which was abundant in Egypt, this was a lighter and more common material, especially for letters and everyday documents in the Hellenistic world. It was typically made into sheets and then joined to form scrolls.
Ostraca (Potsherds): Broken pieces of pottery were essentially the "scrap paper" of the ancient world. They were readily available and used for ephemeral notes, receipts, tax records, and short letters.

Other Materials

Waxed Wooden Tablets: Flat pieces of wood covered in a layer of wax were used as portable notebooks for temporary notes and school exercises. A stylus could easily inscribe the wax, which could then be erased and reused.
Stone and Metal: These were used for permanent public records and monumental inscriptions, like the inscription on the cross of Jesus or the laws given to Moses on stone tablets. Metal was rare but used for specific important documents, such as the copper scroll found at Qumran.

Writing Tools and Ink
Writers used different tools depending on the surface:

Reed pens: These were made from dried, sharpened reeds and used with ink on papyrus or parchment.
Styluses: Pointed instruments made of metal, bone, or ivory were used to inscribe wax tablets or moist clay.
Chisels/Gravers: These were necessary for carving into hard surfaces like stone or metal.

Ink was typically a black carbon ink made from soot (lampblack) mixed with gum and water. Red ink was also used, though less commonly.

ttps://israelmyglory.org/article/ancient-writing-tools/

A stylus in Jesus’ day was a writing tool made of metal, ivory, or bone. The writer would press the pointed end of the stylus down on a waxed-surface tablet. However, a more permanent method of documentation was used for the Bible.

The Hebrew Scriptures were written with an iron pen-like object, possibly on stone or lead (Job 19:24). Clay and leather parchments were also used.

New Testament manuscripts probably were written originally with reed pens on pressed sheets of papyrus fibers. Papyrus was common and inexpensive. A dry reed stalk was cut to a small pen size, sharpened to a point on one end, and slit to dip into ink. The ink was made of lamp-black and gum dissolved in water.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

I have knowledge this was written by his followers

It was not written by his followers, but decades after his death. So your supposed “knowledge” is not knowledge at all.

Yeah sure, as the logic often portrays the flawed atheist argument (a deliberate deception perhaps).

You are actually saying without realising that just because of a "few decades later" "people are incapable to recall 'specific' events".

As I say, your response implies the false notion, as if saying... this goes against the laws of nature/or physics to 'retain experiences' in the memories of humans that exceeds more than 10 years to ever be capable to write about those experiences.

We call them biographies.

There various reasons why these are written later!

A few decades? What a load a tosh.

and that Jesus was the truth

Evidence?

from the above,..
The testimonies from the memoirs of the writers.

Truth is at the utmost, highly emphasised on in the bible. I mean... if Jesus says there's a heaven, then there's a heaven.

If I say pigs have wings and can fly, then pigs have wings and can fly.

WTF kind of argument are you making?

Well it's not difficult to reason that I may have various reasons( understanding)...

...I mean for example, I am unaware of what you preached.


(I have a previous post of yours I didn't get to respond to. I'll reply a little more to that post...bear with me)

People's memories are notoriously unreliable. This unreliabilty increases when they are surrounded by people pushing the same false narratives. Most of these people were non-literate, so could not write down what they recalled.
Auto-biographies and biographies rely on notes, diaries, newspaper cuttings, photos, and other physical evidence (which nowadays includes audio and video recordings), interviews with other people shortly after the events, library and government records, written histories by professionals, and so on, not just memories.

 

[Learner]

John 14:6 – “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

That sure does't sound like humility to me. It sounds delusional, but then again, I figured out the foolishness of religion by the time I was in my 20s after a childhood of being brainwashed.

John 14:6 isn't intended to portray humility...wrong verse for your rant!

That verse in simple terms highlights that anything other than what Jesus says in his commandments, teachings etc, is meant as a safe-guard to stop you going the wrong way, if you will.

Good works are better than beliefs. I will never understand why Christians and some other religions base most everything on what a person believes.

Good works by your actions is thought highly in the bible, recognised even when you're not Christian. The Good Samaritan is an example.

Yeah so, It is not taught in the bible that believers should think themselves high and mighty above everyone else. Boasting pride is seriously looked down upon.

If there was an all loving god, why the fuck would he care what someone believed?

Is your concept of a loving god like the lady god below?

Wouldn't he be more interested in their character and since the so called god is responsible for everything, and knows everything, why did he allow some people to be cruel, hateful and violent?

Huh?
The interest and measure of character is the very thing it's all about!

He allowed YOU to be responsible for your actions. This is the very thing you demand for - being allowed to do what ever you want under the banner you like to call 'freedom' (freedom from God).

That makes no sense to me. if I were able to believe in a higher power of some sort, it would be a nurturing all loving female goddess who was a good influence on people and who didn't care if anyone thought she was the true god.

Would your god allow people the freedom to do whatever they wanted?

Does your female God have the capability to create rules and laws, which is something that may require consequences, in which a responsible god would be required to act on?

Does lady god even have what it takes to be in the position to judge right and wrong, because everything in her goddess mind is purely viewed from the lovey-dovey candy flossy pov, being totally oblivious to the bad human character behaviour that can appear out there, in her ideal (fantasy) world?

 

[bilby]

Does your female God have the capability to create rules and laws, which is something that may require consequences, in which a responsible god would be required to act on?

Could you provide an example of your God acting in living memory to put any consequences on anyone? Did nobody break any of your God's laws in the C20th, with its two world wars, various genocides, and widespread violent crime? Was your God irresponsible? Or was your God asleep during the shoah?

Your God's approach to His rules and laws is indistinguishable from His complete failure to have any, enforce any, or even to exist.

 

[southernhybrid]

John 14:6 – “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”

That sure does't sound like humility to me. It sounds delusional, but then again, I figured out the foolishness of religion by the time I was in my 20s after a childhood of being brainwashed.

John 14:6 isn't intended to portray humility...wrong verse for your rant!

That verse in simple terms highlights that anything other than what Jesus says in his commandments, teachings etc, is meant as a safe-guard to stop you going the wrong way, if you will.

Good works are better than beliefs. I will never understand why Christians and some other religions base most everything on what a person believes.

Good works by your actions is thought highly in the bible, recognised even when you're not Christian. The Good Samaritan is an example.

Yeah so, It is not taught in the bible that believers should think themselves high and mighty above everyone else. Boasting pride is seriously looked down upon.

If there was an all loving god, why the fuck would he care what someone believed?

Is your concept of a loving god like the lady god below?

Wouldn't he be more interested in their character and since the so called god is responsible for everything, and knows everything, why did he allow some people to be cruel, hateful and violent?

Huh?
The interest and measure of character is the very thing it's all about!

He allowed YOU to be responsible for your actions. This is the very thing you demand for - being allowed to do what ever you want under the banner you like to call 'freedom' (freedom from God).

That makes no sense to me. if I were able to believe in a higher power of some sort, it would be a nurturing all loving female goddess who was a good influence on people and who didn't care if anyone thought she was the true god.

Would your god allow people the freedom to do whatever they wanted?

Does your female God have the capability to create rules and laws, which is something that may require consequences, in which a responsible god would be required to act on?

Does lady god even have what it takes to be in the position to judge right and wrong, because everything in her goddess mind is purely viewed from the lovey-dovey candy flossy pov, being totally oblivious to the bad human character behaviour that can appear out there, in her ideal (fantasy) world?

I have no gods, but since women are statistically far more nurturing and far less violent than males. it makes sense that the best god, if such a thing existed would be female. Your god has committed a huge amount of violence according to your Bible. How you can support such an evil deity is hard for me to understand.

Plus, you make light of my pretend goddess being full of love? I was taught as a child attending an evangelical Baptist church that "God is love" My point was that Bible god isn't very loving at all. He blamed a woman for eating an apple, aka the fruit of knowledge, for bringing sin to all of humanity. Have you ever wondered why your god didn't want people to obtain knowledge/

He wiped out all kinds of people, turned a woman into a pillar of salt for taking a look back, asked a man to sacrifice his son and then said he was just testing him, and inspired many religious wars. He promised eternal life only to those who ask for forgivienss from their sins and accept him as their savior. Otherwise, it's eternal torture. What kind of a god is that? Like I said, if I thought there was a god, it would be a goddess of love who was a good influence on her creation. But, be honest, it's all mythology or fairy tales as my son likes to say. I'm not sure why you try to convince us otherwise, unless perhaps you're having your own doubts or testing your beliefs, despite the lack of evidence for them.

It reminds me of when I first realized that I had been lied to and I told some of my teenage Christain friends that we had been told a bunch of lies. One responded with, "Don't think so much about it. You think too much". I will never forget that day. She was right. If you analyze and think too much about religion, you will realize it's mythology. As the late Joseph Campell said, "there is power in myth".