Vaccines, Vaccinations Discussions

[peacegirl]

Could this be true?

‘Deeply Troubling’: Higher Mortality Rates Detected in Vaccinated 3-Month-Olds Compared With Unvaccinated Infants

Infants vaccinated in their second month of life were more likely to die in their third month than unvaccinated infants, according to an analysis of data obtained from the Louisiana Department of Health. Children’s Health Defense scientists Brian Hooker, Ph.D., and Karl Jablonowski, Ph.D., who...

childrenshealthdefense.org

Louisiana has one or the highest infant mortality rates of any state and our infant vaccination rate is lower than average.

A lot of babies die. I'm sure there are plenty of correlations that have no effect one way or the other.

I'm old enough to remember adults who were polio survivors, neighbors who could barely walk on twisted legs. I also remember the relief my parents showed after we all ate our sugar cube with the red dot.

Between first and third grade, I missed 6 weeks of school because of bouts of measles, mumps, and chicken pox. Thanks to vaccines, none of my children had to experience that.

I don't know if you have ever had measles, mumps, or chicken pox, but I can tell you, it's a miserable experience. Any parent who would risk their child suffering like that, with the risk of far worse complication is a sadistic bastard to a degree that can't be explained by ignorance or gullibility.

I had measles as a child. My kids had chicken pox. People have the right to do what is good for them and their families. That is human nature. You can think that a person who chooses not to vaccinate is sadistic, but that accusation is ridiculous. Your name-calling won't help either because it fails to change minds. It only incites rebellion against the system that uses force.

 

[southernhybrid]

I call vaccine deniers ignorant, not sadistic. And, in the case of vaccines, ignorance isn't bliss. Sadly, even some who have lost a child due to a disease that could have been prevented from a vaccine refuse to believe the truth.

I don't believe people have the right to do whatever they want when it comes to public health issues. https://legalclarity.org/public-health-safety-laws-and-regulations/

Public health safety involves organized efforts and regulatory actions taken by society to protect and promote the health of entire communities. The framework of laws and regulations provides the structure for maintaining well-being and security for all residents. These systems ensure the safety of food, water, and consumer goods, while establishing protocols for managing widespread health threats.

Governmental Structure of Public Health Safety​

The United States uses a shared jurisdiction model for public health, distributing legal authority across multiple levels of government. Federal agencies, such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), focus primarily on research, setting national standards, and addressing interstate issues. The federal government’s authority largely stems from the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution, which permits regulating health matters that cross state lines.

Managing Infectious Disease and Outbreaks​

Legal tools control the spread of communicable diseases by balancing individual liberty with public necessity. All states mandate specific disease surveillance and reporting requirements, compelling healthcare providers and laboratories to alert public health officials about confirmed infectious illnesses. This mandatory reporting allows for prompt epidemiological investigation and helps track the movement of a disease within the population.


Public health officials at the state and local levels possess the legal authority to issue isolation or quarantine orders, a power derived from their general police power. Isolation separates people who are confirmed sick, while quarantine separates individuals exposed to a communicable disease. Federal authority for isolation and quarantine is granted to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention under the Public Health Service Act to prevent interstate or international spread. Violating a federal quarantine order can result in fines and imprisonment, while state violations are commonly prosecuted as criminal misdemeanors. Many states also utilize their police power to enforce mandatory vaccination requirements, notably to achieve community immunity.

One example I recall was a man who had an active case of TB back in the late 70s when I worked as a public health nurse in SC. He was threatened with prison if he refused to confine himself to his home. That was for the good of the community. That is how I see mandatory vaccinations for school kids. The residents and all of the workers were required to take the flu vaccine when I worked in long term care. Nobody objected. Nobody had an adverse side effect. I don't recall a single resident getting the flu during the 17 years where I worked at that facility. Doubt this is still happening in all places, which is very sad and potentially dangerous. I'll leave it at that.

 

[peacegirl]

I call vaccine deniers ignorant, not sadistic. And, in the case of vaccines, ignorance isn't bliss. Sadly, even some who have lost a child due to a disease that could have been prevented from a vaccine refuse to believe the truth.

I don't believe people have the right to do whatever they want when it comes to public health issues. https://legalclarity.org/public-health-safety-laws-and-regulations/

Public health safety involves organized efforts and regulatory actions taken by society to protect and promote the health of entire communities. The framework of laws and regulations provides the structure for maintaining well-being and security for all residents. These systems ensure the safety of food, water, and consumer goods, while establishing protocols for managing widespread health threats.

Governmental Structure of Public Health Safety​

The United States uses a shared jurisdiction model for public health, distributing legal authority across multiple levels of government. Federal agencies, such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), focus primarily on research, setting national standards, and addressing interstate issues. The federal government’s authority largely stems from the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution, which permits regulating health matters that cross state lines.

Managing Infectious Disease and Outbreaks​

Legal tools control the spread of communicable diseases by balancing individual liberty with public necessity. All states mandate specific disease surveillance and reporting requirements, compelling healthcare providers and laboratories to alert public health officials about confirmed infectious illnesses. This mandatory reporting allows for prompt epidemiological investigation and helps track the movement of a disease within the population.


Public health officials at the state and local levels possess the legal authority to issue isolation or quarantine orders, a power derived from their general police power. Isolation separates people who are confirmed sick, while quarantine separates individuals exposed to a communicable disease. Federal authority for isolation and quarantine is granted to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention under the Public Health Service Act to prevent interstate or international spread. Violating a federal quarantine order can result in fines and imprisonment, while state violations are commonly prosecuted as criminal misdemeanors. Many states also utilize their police power to enforce mandatory vaccination requirements, notably to achieve community immunity.

One example I recall was a man who had an active case of TB back in the late 70s when I worked as a public health nurse in SC. He was threatened with prison if he refused to confine himself to his home. That was for the good of the community. That is how I see mandatory vaccinations for school kids. The residents and all of the workers were required to take the flu vaccine when I worked in long term care. Nobody objected. Nobody had an adverse side effect. I don't recall a single resident getting the flu during the 17 years where I worked at that facility. Doubt this is still happening in all places, which is very sad and potentially dangerous. I'll leave it at that.

You are assuming people would not get vaccinated (for themselves and their family first and foremost) if there was a fast-spreading infection. What I object to is not giving people the freedom to choose. We all want what is best, and most of the time people will voluntarily do what the majority want.

 

[Bronzeage]

Could this be true?

‘Deeply Troubling’: Higher Mortality Rates Detected in Vaccinated 3-Month-Olds Compared With Unvaccinated Infants

Infants vaccinated in their second month of life were more likely to die in their third month than unvaccinated infants, according to an analysis of data obtained from the Louisiana Department of Health. Children’s Health Defense scientists Brian Hooker, Ph.D., and Karl Jablonowski, Ph.D., who...

childrenshealthdefense.org

Louisiana has one or the highest infant mortality rates of any state and our infant vaccination rate is lower than average.

A lot of babies die. I'm sure there are plenty of correlations that have no effect one way or the other.

I'm old enough to remember adults who were polio survivors, neighbors who could barely walk on twisted legs. I also remember the relief my parents showed after we all ate our sugar cube with the red dot.

Between first and third grade, I missed 6 weeks of school because of bouts of measles, mumps, and chicken pox. Thanks to vaccines, none of my children had to experience that.

I don't know if you have ever had measles, mumps, or chicken pox, but I can tell you, it's a miserable experience. Any parent who would risk their child suffering like that, with the risk of far worse complication is a sadistic bastard to a degree that can't be explained by ignorance or gullibility.

I had measles as a child. My kids had chicken pox. People have the right to do what is good for them and their families. That is human nature. You can think that a person who chooses not to vaccinate is sadistic, but that accusation is ridiculous. Your name-calling won't help either because it fails to change minds. It only incites rebellion against the system that uses force.

I didn't come here to change minds, yours or anyone else's. The intentional infliction of pain for one's own satisfaction is sadistic, no matter how it's rationalized.
Although you appear to think you are "fighting the good fight", you advocate pain and suffering for the undefended and there is nothing good about it.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Could this be true?

‘Deeply Troubling’: Higher Mortality Rates Detected in Vaccinated 3-Month-Olds Compared With Unvaccinated Infants

Infants vaccinated in their second month of life were more likely to die in their third month than unvaccinated infants, according to an analysis of data obtained from the Louisiana Department of Health. Children’s Health Defense scientists Brian Hooker, Ph.D., and Karl Jablonowski, Ph.D., who...

childrenshealthdefense.org

Louisiana has one or the highest infant mortality rates of any state and our infant vaccination rate is lower than average.

A lot of babies die. I'm sure there are plenty of correlations that have no effect one way or the other.

I'm old enough to remember adults who were polio survivors, neighbors who could barely walk on twisted legs. I also remember the relief my parents showed after we all ate our sugar cube with the red dot.

Between first and third grade, I missed 6 weeks of school because of bouts of measles, mumps, and chicken pox. Thanks to vaccines, none of my children had to experience that.

I don't know if you have ever had measles, mumps, or chicken pox, but I can tell you, it's a miserable experience. Any parent who would risk their child suffering like that, with the risk of far worse complication is a sadistic bastard to a degree that can't be explained by ignorance or gullibility.

I had measles as a child. My kids had chicken pox. People have the right to do what is good for them and their families.

Getting sick isn't "good for them". Especially chicken pox which follows with shingles down the road.

That is human nature.

So you are back to the BS freedom to do stupid shit and have abandoned the vaccines might be dangerous... we don't know we should study it more... we are all going to get autism!!!!

You can think that a person who chooses not to vaccinate is sadistic, but that accusation is ridiculous. Your name-calling won't help either because it fails to change minds. It only incites rebellion against the system that uses force.

I can't change the mind of a person who thinks getting sick is a good idea. Such irrational thinking can't be rationally managed.

 

[southernhybrid]

I had chicken pox because there was no vaccine for it when I was a kid. But, I also had all of the shingles vaccines, including the first one that was only about 40% effective. I've had the 2 dose one when it became available and so far, no shingles, aka Herpes Zoster, a horrible viral infection that is extremely painful and can even leave one with long term pain after the rash heals. You think cold sore, aka the milder form of herpes is painful, shingles is extremely more painful. I've seen it on patients before the vaccine was developed. They suffered intensely. Only a fool would refuse to get the vaccine to prevent shingles, if they've ever had chicken pox or suspect that might have had chicken pox. even though it's not 100% effective.

I was forced to take the Hep B vaccine when it was developed, and happy to do it when I was a public health nurse, as were all of my peers. None of us had any side effects.

 

[ideologyhunter]

The born-agains in my extended family are not only anti-vaxxers but climate change deniers. That fits together well, dunnit? One of my cousins told me, at the height of the covid epidemic, that she was proudly not going to vax and that she was doing all the right things to be healthy. (At this time, between 3000 and 4000 Americans were dying from covid daily.) I don't argue with people like her, it's a waste of breath. All I could think was, you careless idiot, you could feel fine and pass the virus on to some elderly person on your block -- and in effect kill that person. Good little Christian. Here was a perfectly magnificent achievement, a vaccine arriving in less than a year's time, exhibiting the best of man's scientific expertise and the dedication of hundreds of research scientists, and she had some dumbass ideological reason to reject it. RFK Jr. is the same kind of reckless nutcase, only in his case, he will be responsible for untold numbers of deaths (as will Trump/Musk, for an unrelated action.) I can't believe anyone on this thread would defend him. In each of his appearances before Congressional committees, his Trump-level ignorance and belligerence has been amply on display. This is dark ages stuff. Hard to watch the ascendancy of stupidity in this country.

 

[Swammerdami]

I would have no problem checking the design of the study, but bear in mind that just because these people are concerned about the vaccine schedule does not make this study flawed.

No, what makes that study flawed is that the authors are lying liars who lie, and are in this case lying once again.
...
The "paper" they are pushing (which no reputable journal will publish) is a simple case of p-hacking, a well known trick to make results appear significant when they are not.

I'd never heard of "p-hacking" but a simple example perhaps is a study which calculates the stats for dozens of "hypotheses" (e.g. infants from various cohorts tested in various ways) and reports on ONLY ONE of these hypotheses: "There is only a 5% chance that this correlation is due to chance." But if you're testing dozens of hypotheses, you'll get at least one such "only a 5% chance" ... by chance!

A reputable scientist will report ALL the hypotheses he investigated, including those that fail. A fraudulent scientist will, in effect, treat the successful "hypothesis" as his ONLY hypothesis.

Detecting such fraud may not be easy. The fraudster needn't even lie, except in the lies of omission. Insisting that reputable scientists examine and refute every paper written by a known fraudster serves the fraudster's interest, distracting the real scientist from real science.

Five years ago, right here at IIDB a Trump fan started a thread about an alleged "Gender pay gap in Biden's White House.". (This is a disingenuous topic to start with since right-wingers disapprove of rigorous equalization of pay by gender.)

Spoiler: Boring Details

Briefly, Mark J. Perry, a "Senior Fellow Emeritus" of the American Enterprise Institute (one of the "think" tanks promoting Project 2025) claimed that Biden's White House violated its self-imposed gender pay equality criterion. I was intrigued enough to pursue his claim and I found that his real discovery was that "Biden's White House violated its self-imposed gender pay equality criterion IF I, Mark Perry, REDEFINE that criterion as I choose." (I'm sure he cherry-picked possible changes to the criterion to find this "violation.")

If his lead paragraph had been "I think there is a better criterion which the White House should have used" then the article might have been honest, and perhaps even intelligent or useful. But he did not.

Was Perry so proud of his criterial change that he discussed its value? No.

Did Perry bury his change to the criterion in a single paragraph in the middle of his longish boring article? No.

Did this "Senior Fellow Emeritus" bury his criterial change in a single sentence? No. A short clause or phrase? No.

Perry hides his criterial change in a single word! "paid". By deleting two unpaid males from the pool, he pushed the median male salary to $100k, which he said was 20% higher than the $80k female median.
* 55-percentile? Male==Female==$100k.
* 45-percentile? Male==Female==$80k.
Pyay was euql by most statistical criteria. But by making 50-percentile the be-all and end-all AND revising the criterion like a "p-hacker" he claimed a HUGE pay gap.

Thus "Senior Fellow Emeritus" Mark J. Perry is the most hypocritical and dishonest "scientist" I have ever encountered. I received zero applause for my diligent efforts! Only the now-banned MAGGAT responded and he hadn't a clue. I was proud enough to e-mail my analysis to a high-ranking Democrat, but I guess AEI lies were too commonplace for another proven lie to be interesting.

TL;DR: Nobody has the time to debunk all the right-wing lies, peacegirl. Work on improving your news gathering.

Left-wingers are also prone to misstatements and exaggerations. I consider myself a radical centrist. Elect me as dictator and, just as happened to Giordano Bruno, liars convicted by my Star Chamber will have spikes driven through their mouths to prevent further lying.

 

[bilby]

https://xkcd.com/882/

 

[Playball40]

Could this be true?

‘Deeply Troubling’: Higher Mortality Rates Detected in Vaccinated 3-Month-Olds Compared With Unvaccinated Infants

Infants vaccinated in their second month of life were more likely to die in their third month than unvaccinated infants, according to an analysis of data obtained from the Louisiana Department of Health. Children’s Health Defense scientists Brian Hooker, Ph.D., and Karl Jablonowski, Ph.D., who...

childrenshealthdefense.org

Louisiana has one or the highest infant mortality rates of any state and our infant vaccination rate is lower than average.

A lot of babies die. I'm sure there are plenty of correlations that have no effect one way or the other.

I'm old enough to remember adults who were polio survivors, neighbors who could barely walk on twisted legs. I also remember the relief my parents showed after we all ate our sugar cube with the red dot.

Between first and third grade, I missed 6 weeks of school because of bouts of measles, mumps, and chicken pox. Thanks to vaccines, none of my children had to experience that.

I don't know if you have ever had measles, mumps, or chicken pox, but I can tell you, it's a miserable experience. Any parent who would risk their child suffering like that, with the risk of far worse complication is a sadistic bastard to a degree that can't be explained by ignorance or gullibility.

I had measles as a child. My kids had chicken pox. People have the right to do what is good for them and their families. That is human nature. You can think that a person who chooses not to vaccinate is sadistic, but that accusation is ridiculous. Your name-calling won't help either because it fails to change minds. It only incites rebellion against the system that uses force.

I call anti-vaxxers selfish, not sadistic. If you want to risk yourselves or your children, that's your prerogative, but highly communicable diseases such as measles, are deadly dangerous to young babies, immunocompromised, etc etc. If you CHOOSE not to vaccinate for the GOOD OF ALL PEOPLE, then you should not be allowed to have your children out in public spaces. Easy peasy. Your rights end the second they INFRINGE on other's rights (such as the right to life).

 

[Playball40]

I call vaccine deniers ignorant, not sadistic. And, in the case of vaccines, ignorance isn't bliss. Sadly, even some who have lost a child due to a disease that could have been prevented from a vaccine refuse to believe the truth.

I don't believe people have the right to do whatever they want when it comes to public health issues. https://legalclarity.org/public-health-safety-laws-and-regulations/

Public health safety involves organized efforts and regulatory actions taken by society to protect and promote the health of entire communities. The framework of laws and regulations provides the structure for maintaining well-being and security for all residents. These systems ensure the safety of food, water, and consumer goods, while establishing protocols for managing widespread health threats.

Governmental Structure of Public Health Safety​

The United States uses a shared jurisdiction model for public health, distributing legal authority across multiple levels of government. Federal agencies, such as the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), focus primarily on research, setting national standards, and addressing interstate issues. The federal government’s authority largely stems from the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution, which permits regulating health matters that cross state lines.

Managing Infectious Disease and Outbreaks​

Legal tools control the spread of communicable diseases by balancing individual liberty with public necessity. All states mandate specific disease surveillance and reporting requirements, compelling healthcare providers and laboratories to alert public health officials about confirmed infectious illnesses. This mandatory reporting allows for prompt epidemiological investigation and helps track the movement of a disease within the population.


Public health officials at the state and local levels possess the legal authority to issue isolation or quarantine orders, a power derived from their general police power. Isolation separates people who are confirmed sick, while quarantine separates individuals exposed to a communicable disease. Federal authority for isolation and quarantine is granted to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention under the Public Health Service Act to prevent interstate or international spread. Violating a federal quarantine order can result in fines and imprisonment, while state violations are commonly prosecuted as criminal misdemeanors. Many states also utilize their police power to enforce mandatory vaccination requirements, notably to achieve community immunity.

One example I recall was a man who had an active case of TB back in the late 70s when I worked as a public health nurse in SC. He was threatened with prison if he refused to confine himself to his home. That was for the good of the community. That is how I see mandatory vaccinations for school kids. The residents and all of the workers were required to take the flu vaccine when I worked in long term care. Nobody objected. Nobody had an adverse side effect. I don't recall a single resident getting the flu during the 17 years where I worked at that facility. Doubt this is still happening in all places, which is very sad and potentially dangerous. I'll leave it at that.

You are assuming people would not get vaccinated (for themselves and their family first and foremost) if there was a fast-spreading infection. What I object to is not giving people the freedom to choose. We all want what is best, and most of the time people will voluntarily do what the majority want.

You have the right to choose. But also have responsibilities with that choice, such as not attending public school.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Could this be true?

‘Deeply Troubling’: Higher Mortality Rates Detected in Vaccinated 3-Month-Olds Compared With Unvaccinated Infants

Infants vaccinated in their second month of life were more likely to die in their third month than unvaccinated infants, according to an analysis of data obtained from the Louisiana Department of Health. Children’s Health Defense scientists Brian Hooker, Ph.D., and Karl Jablonowski, Ph.D., who...

childrenshealthdefense.org

Louisiana has one or the highest infant mortality rates of any state and our infant vaccination rate is lower than average.

A lot of babies die. I'm sure there are plenty of correlations that have no effect one way or the other.

I'm old enough to remember adults who were polio survivors, neighbors who could barely walk on twisted legs. I also remember the relief my parents showed after we all ate our sugar cube with the red dot.

Between first and third grade, I missed 6 weeks of school because of bouts of measles, mumps, and chicken pox. Thanks to vaccines, none of my children had to experience that.

I don't know if you have ever had measles, mumps, or chicken pox, but I can tell you, it's a miserable experience. Any parent who would risk their child suffering like that, with the risk of far worse complication is a sadistic bastard to a degree that can't be explained by ignorance or gullibility.

I had measles as a child. My kids had chicken pox. People have the right to do what is good for them and their families. That is human nature. You can think that a person who chooses not to vaccinate is sadistic, but that accusation is ridiculous. Your name-calling won't help either because it fails to change minds. It only incites rebellion against the system that uses force.

The problem is with determining what is right.

You set your children up for getting shingles later in life. Why should society turn a blind eye to such negligence?

The science on this is clear. Absent medical reason against it the vaccine produces on average a better outcome than not giving it.

Same as seat belts. Yes, there are a few cases where belts do harm but they're very rare. (How many of those who drowned while "trapped" by a belt would have been in any shape to escape if they hadn't been wearing it? I've been through a pretty wild ride from effectively being PITted, looks like (at the time I was completely disoriented and can only reconstruct what happened) I hit a wall at at least 25 mph, walked away from it because of my belt. And, likewise, because of my belt my foot found the brake which avoided a secondary collision. No belt, a car behind me, I might not be here.) In that case the problem is so closely connected that we can't pretend it's parental rights, society does take action on such neglect.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

One example I recall was a man who had an active case of TB back in the late 70s when I worked as a public health nurse in SC. He was threatened with prison if he refused to confine himself to his home. That was for the good of the community. That is how I see mandatory vaccinations for school kids. The residents and all of the workers were required to take the flu vaccine when I worked in long term care. Nobody objected. Nobody had an adverse side effect. I don't recall a single resident getting the flu during the 17 years where I worked at that facility. Doubt this is still happening in all places, which is very sad and potentially dangerous. I'll leave it at that.

That's how it should be. You pose an unreasonable danger to others, the state should have the right to use force to remove that danger. Doesn't matter why you pose a danger, just that you do.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You are assuming people would not get vaccinated (for themselves and their family first and foremost) if there was a fast-spreading infection. What I object to is not giving people the freedom to choose. We all want what is best, and most of the time people will voluntarily do what the majority want.

You have already demonstrated that you are not competent to make this decision.

Nothing gets on the vaccine list without quite a bit of information as to safety and benefit.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I had measles as a child. My kids had chicken pox. People have the right to do what is good for them and their families. That is human nature. You can think that a person who chooses not to vaccinate is sadistic, but that accusation is ridiculous. Your name-calling won't help either because it fails to change minds. It only incites rebellion against the system that uses force.

I didn't come here to change minds, yours or anyone else's. The intentional infliction of pain for one's own satisfaction is sadistic, no matter how it's rationalized.
Although you appear to think you are "fighting the good fight", you advocate pain and suffering for the undefended and there is nothing good about it.

I don't see sadism here as she doesn't believe she is inflicting pain.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I had measles as a child. My kids had chicken pox. People have the right to do what is good for them and their families. That is human nature. You can think that a person who chooses not to vaccinate is sadistic, but that accusation is ridiculous. Your name-calling won't help either because it fails to change minds. It only incites rebellion against the system that uses force.

I call anti-vaxxers selfish, not sadistic. If you want to risk yourselves or your children, that's your prerogative, but highly communicable diseases such as measles, are deadly dangerous to young babies, immunocompromised, etc etc. If you CHOOSE not to vaccinate for the GOOD OF ALL PEOPLE, then you should not be allowed to have your children out in public spaces. Easy peasy. Your rights end the second they INFRINGE on other's rights (such as the right to life).

It's a person's right to risk themselves. It's not their right to risk their children.

Parental choice when we do not have a good measure of risks vs benefits, but when the science is clear there should not be a choice.

 

[peacegirl]

Could this be true?

‘Deeply Troubling’: Higher Mortality Rates Detected in Vaccinated 3-Month-Olds Compared With Unvaccinated Infants

Infants vaccinated in their second month of life were more likely to die in their third month than unvaccinated infants, according to an analysis of data obtained from the Louisiana Department of Health. Children’s Health Defense scientists Brian Hooker, Ph.D., and Karl Jablonowski, Ph.D., who...

childrenshealthdefense.org

Louisiana has one or the highest infant mortality rates of any state and our infant vaccination rate is lower than average.

A lot of babies die. I'm sure there are plenty of correlations that have no effect one way or the other.

I'm old enough to remember adults who were polio survivors, neighbors who could barely walk on twisted legs. I also remember the relief my parents showed after we all ate our sugar cube with the red dot.

Between first and third grade, I missed 6 weeks of school because of bouts of measles, mumps, and chicken pox. Thanks to vaccines, none of my children had to experience that.

I don't know if you have ever had measles, mumps, or chicken pox, but I can tell you, it's a miserable experience. Any parent who would risk their child suffering like that, with the risk of far worse complication is a sadistic bastard to a degree that can't be explained by ignorance or gullibility.

I had measles as a child. My kids had chicken pox. People have the right to do what is good for them and their families. That is human nature. You can think that a person who chooses not to vaccinate is sadistic, but that accusation is ridiculous. Your name-calling won't help either because it fails to change minds. It only incites rebellion against the system that uses force.

I didn't come here to change minds, yours or anyone else's. The intentional infliction of pain for one's own satisfaction is sadistic, no matter how it's rationalized.
Although you appear to think you are "fighting the good fight", you advocate pain and suffering for the undefended and there is nothing good about it.

As I said, if someone is given enough good reasons to vaccinate, they will vaccinate without force. There is still a lot of unknowns when it comes to the number of vaccines, the combination, the adjuvants, and the schedule that is now up to 30 vaccines through childhood. To not even question that many because you feel the science is settled is negligent, in my opinion.

RFK Jr. said US children receive up to 92 vaccine doses. How many shots do kids really get?

HHS Secretary Robert F Kennedy Jr. suggested children receive up to 90 vaccine doses. Doctors say that number is closer to 30 doses before age 18.

abcnews.go.com

 

[peacegirl]

One example I recall was a man who had an active case of TB back in the late 70s when I worked as a public health nurse in SC. He was threatened with prison if he refused to confine himself to his home. That was for the good of the community. That is how I see mandatory vaccinations for school kids. The residents and all of the workers were required to take the flu vaccine when I worked in long term care. Nobody objected. Nobody had an adverse side effect. I don't recall a single resident getting the flu during the 17 years where I worked at that facility. Doubt this is still happening in all places, which is very sad and potentially dangerous. I'll leave it at that.

That's how it should be. You pose an unreasonable danger to others, the state should have the right to use force to remove that danger. Doesn't matter why you pose a danger, just that you do.

So you are a utilitarian. If a child dies as a result of a vaccine that you forced on a mother, that's just the collateral damage to you, but what about the poor mother who did not want to get her child vaccinated but was forced to by the authorities? How do you justify that if you were the authority who told her she must, or else?

Utilitarianism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[bilby]

As I said, if someone is given enough good reasons to vaccinate, they will vaccinate without force.

As anyone can observe, avoiding the needless death and suffering of their children isn't enough of a good reason. How much more do these fucking morons need?

 

[Bronzeage]

Could this be true?

‘Deeply Troubling’: Higher Mortality Rates Detected in Vaccinated 3-Month-Olds Compared With Unvaccinated Infants

Infants vaccinated in their second month of life were more likely to die in their third month than unvaccinated infants, according to an analysis of data obtained from the Louisiana Department of Health. Children’s Health Defense scientists Brian Hooker, Ph.D., and Karl Jablonowski, Ph.D., who...

childrenshealthdefense.org

Louisiana has one or the highest infant mortality rates of any state and our infant vaccination rate is lower than average.

A lot of babies die. I'm sure there are plenty of correlations that have no effect one way or the other.

I'm old enough to remember adults who were polio survivors, neighbors who could barely walk on twisted legs. I also remember the relief my parents showed after we all ate our sugar cube with the red dot.

Between first and third grade, I missed 6 weeks of school because of bouts of measles, mumps, and chicken pox. Thanks to vaccines, none of my children had to experience that.

I don't know if you have ever had measles, mumps, or chicken pox, but I can tell you, it's a miserable experience. Any parent who would risk their child suffering like that, with the risk of far worse complication is a sadistic bastard to a degree that can't be explained by ignorance or gullibility.

I had measles as a child. My kids had chicken pox. People have the right to do what is good for them and their families. That is human nature. You can think that a person who chooses not to vaccinate is sadistic, but that accusation is ridiculous. Your name-calling won't help either because it fails to change minds. It only incites rebellion against the system that uses force.

I didn't come here to change minds, yours or anyone else's. The intentional infliction of pain for one's own satisfaction is sadistic, no matter how it's rationalized.
Although you appear to think you are "fighting the good fight", you advocate pain and suffering for the undefended and there is nothing good about it.

As I said, if someone is given enough good reasons to vaccinate, they will vaccinate without force. There is still a lot of unknowns when it comes to the number of vaccines, the combination, the adjuvants, and the schedule that is now up to 30 vaccines through childhood. To not even question that many because you feel the science is settled is negligent, in my opinion.

RFK Jr. said US children receive up to 92 vaccine doses. How many shots do kids really get?

HHS Secretary Robert F Kennedy Jr. suggested children receive up to 90 vaccine doses. Doctors say that number is closer to 30 doses before age 18.

abcnews.go.com

Next you'll be telling me how smoke detectors cause brain tumors and airbags cause acne.

If the reasons to vaccinate aren't good enough for you, that's really not my concern. If you don't want to be vaccinated or vaccinate your children, don't mistake the threat of a quarantine for force. It's just society's way of dealing with people who are a threat to others. It's not personal.

If you want to convince me there's a general hazard in vaccines, you'll need to bring more to the table than RKFjr Children's Health Defense. As it is, all you have is vague doubts and libertarian pabulum.