Justice report finds systematic discrimination against African Americans in Ferguson

[Nice Squirrel]

(I am pretty sure no hip hop was ever produced in 8-track. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Seek and you shall find:
http://www.thafoundation.com/8trax.jpg

 

[Rhea]

Small problem with that... you fail to show that white hip hop rap listeners are being ticketed at the rate black hip hop rap listeners are in Ferguson. In other words, you fail to show that the DoJ report is wrong on this point.

And your fundamental error is that you continue to ignore the fact that the police officer was in violation of their own law in ticketing the young man in the first place - regardless his race, regardless the volume, and regardless his music (which the DoJ report does not specify; it could have been Country for all you know).

Bu RavenSky is right. The real thing that's important about your comments is that you claim the DoJ report is wrong without ever demonstrating a convincing argument for it.

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(I am pretty sure no hip hop was ever produced in 8-track. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Seek and you shall find:
http://www.thafoundation.com/8trax.jpg

EPIC!!!!! My world is now a richer place.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I see no point in reading it..

Which means you have absolutely nothing of value to add to this conversation

I've seen enough to know it's a witch hunt. Why should I trust the facts not to be cherry-picked??

They did find some racist cops--but in a force of that size you would expect to find some. That doesn't prove anything.

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Derec,

These are the sides of the stories that the citizens are telling themselves and others. Abuses appear to be rampant and if you had read the entire article some of the police officers admit to routinely ignoring probable cause and sidestepping the warrant process to make arrests and charge people with made up crimes.

ETA: It strikes me as odd that someone who stands up for the civil rights of the accused, somehow would ignore the blatant violations spelled out in the report.

They are taking the music case as "evidence" despite the fact that even their report leaves no doubt the guy got out of it on a technicality. If that's "evidence" I very much doubt they have any good evidence.

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He should have moved away when so ordered.

And let his girlfriend go without any treatment whatsoever? Because that is what happened when the jack-ass police office arrested the man instead of allowing him to tend to the woman until EMT's arrived. Note the bolded.

I am certified by the Red Cross to provide various minor forms of emergency assistance until EMT's arrive. Are you suggested that I should be arrested for doing so because a cop orders me away for no good reason?

"Tried to calm her" is not treating her injuries.

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I swear some people would have trouble finding racism at a Klan rally.

The problem is we have a stinking pile of very low quality "evidence" that your side thinks is made of gold.

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I am surprised, genuinely surprised, that you would think it was wrong for a person holding their bleeding girlfriend to question the command to move away. And to then turn your conversation to how proper it was to restrain the guy from calming his badly bleeding girlfriend, and not give any attention at all to the fact that the cops let the woman lie there and did nothing for her.

That didn't ring any bells in your head? Didn't trigger one little neuron to think, "and yeah they were assholes for pulling him away from her and double assholes for not replacing his ministrations with their own." I'm watching your responses here and you don't have one sentence to spare for the plight of the badly bleeding woman. The gap is glaring. Not one word for that. But all kinds of thoughts for how the man should have left her to bleed so he could comply with a nonsensical command by apparently callous cops.

If he wasn't actually tending to her injuries he was just in the way, the cops were right to move him out of there.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

which they could have done withOUT arresting the boyfriend. You think arresting the boyfriend on bullshit charges is more important than giving first aid to an accident victim?

They obviously considered him a hindrance--and it sounds like he was. If he won't leave without being arrested, arrest him.

I would feel differently if he was actually providing aid but I see nothing that says he was.

 

[RavenSky]

If he wasn't actually tending to her injuries he was just in the way, the cops were right to move him out of there.

In the way of what, exactly? THEY weren't treating her or calming her or doing anything whatsoever for her. THE COP was not treating her, and no one else was there yet. Let the boyfriend help her then.

The cop was not right in any universe that includes rational and/or compassionate human beings.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

well, NS

When you are a grown person, like you are
And you don't fear other human beings, like you don't
And you speak to people in a respectful manner like you do

Then say you ask people to turn the music down and they do.
This is what most people do

But if you are childish
If people frighten you
And you don't know how to speak to people

Then you complain anonymously on the internet while wallowing in self pity.

Nothing like ad hominem attacks, right Athena?

Poppa always said, throw a rock into a pack of dogs, the only that squeals is the one that gets hit.
Momma always said, a man can sit in corner all day and I can think that man is a fool. He can speak but once and remove all doubt

Two pieces of truth that just felt like sharing.

 

[Arctish]

Which means you have absolutely nothing of value to add to this conversation

I've seen enough to know it's a witch hunt. Why should I trust the facts not to be cherry-picked??

They did find some racist cops--but in a force of that size you would expect to find some. That doesn't prove anything.

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They are taking the music case as "evidence" despite the fact that even their report leaves no doubt the guy got out of it on a technicality. If that's "evidence" I very much doubt they have any good evidence.

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"Tried to calm her" is not treating her injuries.

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The problem is we have a stinking pile of very low quality "evidence" that your side thinks is made of gold.

No, the problem is you have not read the report but will still criticize what you imagine it might contain because you suppose the research was poorly done since it does not support the conclusions you reached before you had seen the evidence.

Also, as a libertarian interested in personal liberty, limited government, and lowering taxes, you fully support the shake-down of blacks in Ferguson because when cops ignore the law it's only a bad thing if it inconveniences someone like you, which it won't because cops would never give you a bogus ticket, and besides, if the $$$ coming from poor blacks dries up the city might have to raise taxes to keep that money train rolling.

 

[Derec]

Poppa always said,
Momma always said,

Did they say anything about insulting people after running out of arguments?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Poppa always said,
Momma always said,

Did they say anything about insulting people after running out of arguments?

you keep picking a scab, you just make a bloody mess of things.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

which they could have done withOUT arresting the boyfriend. You think arresting the boyfriend on bullshit charges is more important than giving first aid to an accident victim?

They obviously considered him a hindrance--and it sounds like he was. If he won't leave without being arrested, arrest him.

The word temporarily detain comes to mind if he was a notable hindrance (think about the Cleveland case where the teen was shot and left to die by the cops and they temporarily detained the sister). Not full out arrest.

I would feel differently if he was actually providing aid but I see nothing that says he was.

Naw, you'd just come up with another excuse like you always do.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

They obviously considered him a hindrance--and it sounds like he was. If he won't leave without being arrested, arrest him.

The word temporarily detain comes to mind if he was a notable hindrance (think about the Cleveland case where the teen was shot and left to die by the cops and they temporarily detained the sister). Not full out arrest.

I would feel differently if he was actually providing aid but I see nothing that says he was.

Naw, you'd just come up with another excuse like you always do.

and BOOM goes the dynamite.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If he wasn't actually tending to her injuries he was just in the way, the cops were right to move him out of there.

In the way of what, exactly? THEY weren't treating her or calming her or doing anything whatsoever for her. THE COP was not treating her, and no one else was there yet. Let the boyfriend help her then.

The cop was not right in any universe that includes rational and/or compassionate human beings.

And they don't know exactly when the EMTs will get there--and they want the scene clear for when they do get there. If he's not providing aid then he should be out of the way first so no time is wasted.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

In the way of what, exactly? THEY weren't treating her or calming her or doing anything whatsoever for her. THE COP was not treating her, and no one else was there yet. Let the boyfriend help her then.

The cop was not right in any universe that includes rational and/or compassionate human beings.

And they don't know exactly when the EMTs will get there--and they want the scene clear for when they do get there. If he's not providing aid then he should be out of the way first so no time is wasted.

Because moving ten feet once the paramedics arrive would be very hard and take maybe an hour. Anecdotal, but I remember witnessing the immediate aftermath of a person who slammed the car they were driving into a masonary post. They were unconscious, clearly dying. The cop still talked to him, offering verbal support. I can't imagine the serious balls one must have to tell someone who is at the very least talking and trying to calm a dying person to get away (while paramedics are not on site and no one else is doing anything to assist), forget about being arrested. And someone (an atheist of all things) defending such a thing!

 

[Arctish]

And they don't know exactly when the EMTs will get there--and they want the scene clear for when they do get there. If he's not providing aid then he should be out of the way first so no time is wasted.

Because moving ten feet once the paramedics arrive would be very hard and take maybe an hour. Anecdotal, but I remember witnessing the immediate aftermath of a person who slammed the car they were driving into a masonary post. They were unconscious, clearly dying. The cop still talked to him, offering verbal support. I can't imagine the serious balls one must have to tell someone who is at the very least talking and trying to calm a dying person to get away (while paramedics are not on site and no one else is doing anything to assist), forget about being arrested. And someone (an atheist of all things) defending such a thing!

I was thinking the same thing. Comforting an injured person is providing aid. If they are conscious and talking, you want to keep them that way. If they are panicky or disoriented, you want to keep them calm so they don't exacerbate their injuries by thrashing around. Even if you're not sure they can hear you, you just keep reassuring them that they're going to be fine and help is on the way. A comforting presence makes a huge difference. And it is what anyone who has taken a First Aid class is taught to do.

What you don't do is arrest a person comforting an injured person, and then not provide any comfort yourself!

 

[ksen]

In the way of what, exactly? THEY weren't treating her or calming her or doing anything whatsoever for her. THE COP was not treating her, and no one else was there yet. Let the boyfriend help her then.

The cop was not right in any universe that includes rational and/or compassionate human beings.

And they don't know exactly when the EMTs will get there--and they want the scene clear for when they do get there. If he's not providing aid then he should be out of the way first so no time is wasted.

compassionate conservatism

 

[Rhea]

In the way of what, exactly? THEY weren't treating her or calming her or doing anything whatsoever for her. THE COP was not treating her, and no one else was there yet. Let the boyfriend help her then.

The cop was not right in any universe that includes rational and/or compassionate human beings.

And they don't know exactly when the EMTs will get there--and they want the scene clear for when they do get there. If he's not providing aid then he should be out of the way first so no time is wasted.

Really, Loren? Really!?

I'm just floored that you are defending leaving a person to bleed alone on the pavement and driving away the only person who cares to offer comfort. I am fucking floored. Wow.

Think about what you are defending. Holy shit, really think about this.

 

[ksen]

*bzzt* does not compute *brrzt*

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And they don't know exactly when the EMTs will get there--and they want the scene clear for when they do get there. If he's not providing aid then he should be out of the way first so no time is wasted.

Because moving ten feet once the paramedics arrive would be very hard and take maybe an hour. Anecdotal, but I remember witnessing the immediate aftermath of a person who slammed the car they were driving into a masonary post. They were unconscious, clearly dying. The cop still talked to him, offering verbal support. I can't imagine the serious balls one must have to tell someone who is at the very least talking and trying to calm a dying person to get away (while paramedics are not on site and no one else is doing anything to assist), forget about being arrested. And someone (an atheist of all things) defending such a thing!

Because the cops don't know how long it will take. Obviously it took time as they had to arrest him to get him out of the way. The cops are focusing on what will actually help as opposed to the emotional issues. He could have talked to her from a bit back and not been a problem.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And they don't know exactly when the EMTs will get there--and they want the scene clear for when they do get there. If he's not providing aid then he should be out of the way first so no time is wasted.

Really, Loren? Really!?

I'm just floored that you are defending leaving a person to bleed alone on the pavement and driving away the only person who cares to offer comfort. I am fucking floored. Wow.

Think about what you are defending. Holy shit, really think about this.

Comfort won't stop her bleeding. EMTs will. Do you want her comforted and dead or distraught and alive?

The police are very used to emotionally involved civilians being a problem at disaster scenes, they are trained to get them out of there.

 

[RavenSky]

In the way of what, exactly? THEY weren't treating her or calming her or doing anything whatsoever for her. THE COP was not treating her, and no one else was there yet. Let the boyfriend help her then.

The cop was not right in any universe that includes rational and/or compassionate human beings.

And they don't know exactly when the EMTs will get there--and they want the scene clear for when they do get there. If he's not providing aid then he should be out of the way first so no time is wasted.

You are so full of shit, Loren.

Is the any action so depraved that you won't defend it as long as it is done by a cop against a black man?

Even IF you had a valid point, and you don't, the fact still remains that the COP should have been providing first aid to the injured woman.