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Marxism

 
 
 
No Robots said:
^Doctrinaire physicalists will of course continue to contend that we all need to concern ourselves with how many quarks can dance on the head of a pin. They do this specifically to avoid engaging with the actual and pressing need to broaden and deepen our understanding of mankind.
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Of course they will, obviously.
 
^The instruction to rape victims is to get as much attacker DNA under your fingernails as you can.
 
NR other than the global Maxrism nonsense you can't say anything that is not being said here and in Europe.

It appears relations with Europe are permanently damaged and the EU are talking of the post American reality.

Trump may well be putting us on an irreversible decline and isolation.

What does that mean for Canada? Instead of a stable big frenziedly dog on its southern border an unstable unpredictable country.

Lurking to fill the global power vacuum is not global Marxism, it is Russia and China. That is the pragmatic reality.

For years China has militarized the South China Sea arbitrarily declaring ownership and control of cargo ships passing through. China has fought with te Phillpines over fishing waters.

If you wish our downfall be careful what you wiosh for yuiu might get it.
 
^Both Russia and China have experience with Marxism. In fact, every country in the world recognizes the continuing importance of Marxism except the US. Until the US accepts Marxism, it will continue to decline.
 
Chinese and Russian communism failed catastrophically

China opened to the west and adapted free market capitalism.

China is not Marxist and if you want freedom of speech China is not the place to be, neither is Russia.

The idea of a global system were there is no tracheal structures and everyone just competes is a dream.

It does work in limited situations, I have been part of it. It fails as the scope and size increases.

When I worked at Intel the company culture was based on teams intuit leaders, teams worked by consensus. But to make that work above it was a hierarchical structure.

Outside of Intel I have seen groups unable to ever reach a consensus. People all going in their own direction.

It is not academic for me, it is my experience.
 
^Marxism propelled China and Russia into world-dominating status. They both continue to grow in power by fully embracing state capitalism.

The task before the US is quite different. It already has a vastly superior material basis. However, where it is failing is in spiritual/intellectual development. Now, admittedly, no country is shining in this area. However, due to its material wealth, the US has less excuse and has more pressing need in this regard.
 
No it did not. Mass collectivism in China led to agricultural failures and famines.

The rise of modern China began with divesting in large scale government run industrial companies. Along with opening to the west, foreign investment and transfer of western technology.

Note in he Thatcher era the UK, Germany, and France divested from large scale government industry.

Today China calls itself socialist, a mixed economy.

China was Maoism. Russia was Marxist Leninism and Stalinism. They too had large scale famines. Russia had a large around 1920? American and European aide may have ironically saved the Russian Revolution.

In his day Marx had a tribal view of humanity. Small mostly uneducated populations and low complexity.
 
No Robots said:
^The United States and its client states constitute an international crime syndicate. They export criminality and they strip mine other countries of their resources, including human resources.
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That does not address the point at all.

Why are any of the actions I described criminal?

And this is very much a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
 
Adding that what fueled the rapid rise of China was exploitation of mass cheap labor.
 
No Robots said:
^It isn't the attack on Iran. That is Yankee SOP. It's the collapse of the idealist façade. Capitalism, private capitalism, hasn't been a thing for a century now. We live in a world of state capitalism. The Yankees have tried to keep up the pretense, but the paint has been steadily chipping. Now, they have a used car salesman in the seat of Lincoln. This is is the psychologic collapse of capitalism.
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There are no Marxist countries left.

What we are seeing now is a moron who decided to very clumsily address a can that has been kicked for far too long.

It's very easy to see who is right or wrong--Iran's response has been mostly attacking purely civilian targets in other countries. Classic terrorism. If they were good guys they wouldn't be flinging their weapons at uninvolved civilians.
 
steve_bank said:
No it did not. Mass collectivism in China led to agricultural failures and famines.

The rise of modern China began with divesting in large scale government run industrial companies. Along with opening to the west, foreign investment and transfer of western technology.
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Simple, very telling yardstick.

When I was first in China all the adults had grown up under communism. I was enough taller that I could see over the heads of the crowds around me--my eyes were above the top of their hair. But soon the people who born after the switch to capitalism were coming of age--and more and more heads would block my view. Now I can no more see over the crowds in China than I can in the US.
 
BH said:
As for shooting people trying to leave while it is sad and I hate it anyone dies it is very possible those peole trying to leave were fleeing the consequences from committing serious crimes or spying
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Wow. In the first place, you really are stretching to find a conceivable justification. The border guards killed hundreds of runners, and arrested and imprisoned tens of thousands, convicting them specifically of the "crime" of trying to leave without authorization, and made no attempt to check if a person was a spy or a real criminal before deciding to shoot or arrest him, nor did they wave through the ones they detained once they'd checked to see if there was probable cause to hold them. But sure, maybe the runners were coincidentally all legitimate targets. As apologetics goes, pretty feeble.

And in the second place, your arguments that East Germany's rulers were justified in operating their country as an open-air prison are missing the point. This isn't about whether the rulers were wicked; this is about how people who had to live under communism hated it so much they'd risk their lives to escape. No amount of apologetics for communist governments alters the reality on the ground: that the attempted migrant flow was from communist countries to capitalist. Giving power to people who say they'll implement communism is not a recipe for happiness.

Soneone else may have posted this before but I have read that many times a socialist state would agree to train a person at state expense for various jobs in agreement that person would use those learned skills to help develop and built up that country. The person would learn such skill and then try to go over to the west thinking they would get more than they would in the east. Those people were cheats and liars.

If someone got a car on loan from a bank and then tried run off with the car to Mexico thinking they could avoid paying the note no one would blame an officer of the law stopping them from gouing to Mexico or the loaner asking the Mexican government to expel that person back to the US.
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Wow. The car, being collateral, is considered the property of the lender until the loan is paid off. You are arguing that people are property, like a car. And yes, I'd blame the lender asking the Mexican government to expel that person back to the US. He should ask the Mexican government to send the car back, not the borrower. What, you want to bring back debtors' prison?

Incidentally, is it just states that you figure own the people they train at state expense, or should GM get to own the autoworkers they train on the job, and forbid them from going to work for Ford?

And incidentally, the people socialist states agreed to train for jobs at state expense were, as a rule, children. Do you think a contract for a lifetime of service is something a child is competent to consent to?

Did the west ever return anyone back to East Germany for violating their agreement?
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You mean, did Europe's free states have a Fugitive Slave Act requiring them to return escapees to the slave states they came from? No, that was more an American thing, and it went bye-bye back in 1861. Why, do you think they should have? For that matter, do you think Ford employees should be arrested and returned to GM if they were ex-GM workers who'd violated their agreements? That's really not the business western police and courts are in.
 
It wasn't until the 90s China bnegan providing a min calories.

Back in the 90s I listened to a reporter taking about her first trip to NK. Walking around at first she thought she was seeing teens, then liberalized the were grown adults.

A search showed China also had a significant p[robkem with stunted growth.

China was able to provide sufficient nutrition for its population primarily after the implementation of major agricultural, social, and economic reforms in the late
1970s and 1980s. While food supply began to stabilize in the early 1970s, it was not until the 1990s that nutrient supply adequacy was generally achieved, marking a transition from scarcity to surplus.
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Two people on the forum think communism was what built modern China..

Start with Mao and the Chinese Civil War. Work your way forward to Cultural Revolution, to the Gang Of Four, to Deng Xiaoping and opening to the west. In the day opening to the west was a big story.

I watched a bio last night on Pol Pot. A communist. He was in China during the Cultural Revolution and used it as a model to purge Cambodia in his slaughter of millions. There was a war between communist Cambodia and communist Vietnam.

Communism has never seemed to do much good.
 
Bomb#20 said:
If someone got a car on loan from a bank and then tried run off with the car to Mexico thinking they could avoid paying the note no one would blame an officer of the law stopping them from gouing to Mexico or the loaner asking the Mexican government to expel that person back to the US.
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Wow. The car, being collateral, is considered the property of the lender until the loan is paid off. You are arguing that people are property, like a car. And yes, I'd blame the lender asking the Mexican government to expel that person back to the US. He should ask the Mexican government to send the car back, not the borrower. What, you want to bring back debtors' prison?
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Feels a lot like stealing the car, not merely not paying one's bills. I would have no problem with extradition in such a case.
 
steve_bank said:
It wasn't until the 90s China bnegan providing a min calories.

Back in the 90s I listened to a reporter taking about her first trip to NK. Walking around at first she thought she was seeing teens, then liberalized the were grown adults.

A search showed China also had a significant p[robkem with stunted growth.

China was able to provide sufficient nutrition for its population primarily after the implementation of major agricultural, social, and economic reforms in the late
1970s and 1980s. While food supply began to stabilize in the early 1970s, it was not until the 1990s that nutrient supply adequacy was generally achieved, marking a transition from scarcity to surplus.
Click to expand...

Two people on the forum think communism was what built modern China..

Start with Mao and the Chinese Civil War. Work your way forward to Cultural Revolution, to the Gang Of Four, to Deng Xiaoping and opening to the west. In the day opening to the west was a big story.

I watched a bio last night on Pol Pot. A communist. He was in China during the Cultural Revolution and used it as a model to purge Cambodia in his slaughter of millions. There was a war between communist Cambodia and communist Vietnam.

Communism has never seemed to do much good.
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I never had the feeling of looking at teens when I was first in China, but I can definitely see how someone could get that impression. The transition I observed was more like 1980, but that was from looking at Shanghai and nearby environments--I was seeing the best, not the worst. At first I could freely see across crowds--my eye level was above the top of their heads. While I have never had that experience elsewhere I can't really compare as China is the only non-first-world country I have visited at my adult height.
 
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