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“Revolution in Thought: A new look at determinism and free will"

What happens when you enter a perfectly dark room, where you see nothing, and then you switch the light on?
What are you getting at DBT? You would see what is in the room. Light travels so fast, there is no way someone could prove that we see in real time. It is assumed that light brings us the image which takes a nanosecond or less to reach our eyes. This goes right back to the belief in delayed vision. This question doesn't answer anything more than what is believed to be happening.

The speed of light has been measured. Now if you consider what happens when you enter a dark room and switch the light on, understanding that light has travel time, you'd understand that "real time/instant vision' is impossible.
I just explained that the conclusion that we see in delayed time cannot be determined by your example because it is assumed that because light travels, and light brings the image to the eye, it follows that we see in delayed time. But this is the very theory that is being challenged. It doesn't prove this version of vision is correct, and it certainly doesn't prove that "real time" vision is impossible. Real time vision is impossible the way you're looking at it, is all, not that it's actually impossible.

It's not about the way I am looking at it, but the way the world works.
Obviously not.
It's the physics of light, the evolutionary role of the eyes, brain, mind and consciousness. It's not magic. It's not some inexplicable real time vision, nor some modified form of determinism.
The role of the eyes is to detect light. This does not change, because light is at the eye in both versions. Real-time vision is not magic if you understand how it works. As far as the role of the brain, you cannot state your premise is sound when it is the very thing being challenged. And what does consciousness have to do with either delayed or real-time vision? There has to be consciousness, regardless, or there is no conversation.

"Fundamentally, the brain analyzes the information your eye gathers"

how-the-eye-works_620a.jpg



She has been given a shit ton of info on how the eye works for years, and she is impervious to it. Peacegirl has no connection with reality. Her only reality is her father’s ridiculous book, which to her is holy writ, like the bible is to fundy Christians.
Pood is very threatened by this news for whatever reason.

Ad hom. Will be reported.
When we are threatened we stop being rational. We close our ears as if doing this saves us from the truth. I’m sorry Pood, but this isn’t going to work. The good news is there is more to gain than to lose but you won’t allow yourself to see it. 🫤

You are talking about yourself.

It is the height of irrationality to claim that light is at the eye instantly even while conceding it takes light time to get to the eye. This a violation of the Law of Noncontradiction, which points out that no proposition and its negation can simultaneously be true. To say that light is at the eye instantly even though it takes light time to get there clearly violates this law.
To repeat: It is not a contradiction because light is constantly traveling with individual packets of photons, but it does not bounce off the object taking the frequency/wavelength with it through space/time. It is not so out the door as you claim, that it is impossible to be true. The reason we see an object is that the light is at the eye, as long as the object is within our field of view. If it is too far away, we won't see it because there is no light at our eyes. We can see nothing without light. A telescope could help if the object isn't so far away that the light can't be collected and focused, such that the magnification can then make the object appear larger. It does not violate anything.
 
They are not discoveries. There is no threat.
How very unfortunate coming from someone who believes man’s will is not free! 🫩

It has nothing to do with what I may or may not believe. Real time seeing/instant vision has no merit because there is no evidence to support it, and abundant evidence against it.
There is still no evidence that dogs can recognize their masters from sight alone. It is just handwaved away as if it doesn't count. But it does count because it indicates that recognition in dogs requires more than sight alone. IOW, light reaches the dog's eyes (a dog who is not further than 20 ft away, in a picture, or on a screen), but he cannot identify. Of course, this doesn't bother anyone. They just keep telling me that there's no evidence to support the claim, which is untrue. They tell me bees can recognize humans, too. Hmm, from a lineup? :oops: I have said that different cultures have different standards as to what is considered beautiful and ugly, but where does this standard come from, and how do we get conditioned? Answer: We get conditioned by words. How, then, do words get attached to faces if beautiful and ugly faces are not traveling in the light itself? Does the word and face travel together in the light, allowing us to see this beauty and ugliness? Of course not. There has to be a way the word gets associated with certain facial structures. But no, people just handwave away whatever he wrote because they conclude it's of no import. But it has major implications, so it is important. He came from a completely different perspective. Although this knowledge did not come from astronomy, it doesn't make him wrong. In fact, knowledge can come from unexpected places. There is nothing in the anatomy of the eyes that proves he is wrong about how the brain and eyes work. Elon Musk and a few others are trying to see if they can make the blind see through internal processes. Only time will tell. I am saddened by the lack of interest other than telling me he was wrong when no one has understood his proof of determinism, either, and why he had to tweak the definition. One of his premises is that the past does not exist except in our memory. This is important because of the confusion over the word cause, which has important implications. If people can't accept that premise, even temporarily, then there is no point in continuing. It's disheartening that this group claims to be objective, but I don't see it.

Do you have anything else other than to demand 'proof' of what we say?

Your claims have have pretty much been shown to be false, or least not capable of being demonstrated. Is there anything else or new you have to offer?
They have not been proven to be false. Do you even understand what I wrote? Not even one question regarding words? This is a problem, not just with you, but with everyone here. No questions, just accusations. How can anyone grasp this material if they are so sure they are right and they are so sure Lessans was wrong, if they have not carefully studied his work with a fine-tooth comb? They have done no such thing.
 
I don;'t see any ad homs.

I do see a lot of ad libs.

An ad hom is not an insult (or not only an insult). It is as I described above.

Insult: Your are an idiot.

Ad hom: Your argument is wrong because you are an idiot.

Peacegirl tells me that my arguments are wrong because I am afraid of having my world view threatened or because I am irrational or some such bullshit.

Straightforwardly ad hom.

Some ad homs can be compliments:

You are far too bright to believe what you are saying, so your argument is wrong.

I have never ad hommed her author. I have never said that his arguments are wrong because he is an idiot.

I have said the opposite: that he is an idiot because his arguments are wrong, and he should have gotten an education to know better.
But his arguments have not been proved wrong, so calling him names because you think he is wrong, is wrong, Pood, and I will not discuss anything with you if you keep it up. You actually think your comment above that I put in bold is something I will tolerate? No way, José. Both words are meant to hurt the author, and they show complete disrespect. If I accidentally insult you or create an ad hominem, let me know, and I'll delete it.
 
I do n' see anything on the thread tat rises above the normal banter.

Ad hom means to attack the person instead of the message.

Calling her a name is ad hom. Stupid and so on.

Two peas in a pod. You both dig in your heals and go back and forth hitting each other on the head.

You both know the other is not going to budge, but keep whacking each other about the head and shudders, so to speak.

You two should do a live Internet show discussion politics, philosophy, science, and religion. Callers asking questions. It would be a hit.

It seems to me, Steve, that you are hitting her over the head as much if not more than I am. So why are you digging in your heels?

I have explained what an ad hom is. It is not simply calling someone a name. It is saying that someone’s argument is wrong because of some personal characteristic of the person making the argument. Peacegirl does this all the time. I have never done it to her.

I have called her writer (not her) names, but I have never said that his crap is wrong because he is an idiot. I have said he is an idiot because his crap is wrong.

I have called peacegir’s posts idiotic but I have never said that she herself is an idiot.

This is why philosophy, which you disdain, is valuable. In this case, it involves the philosophy of logic.
 
Here is another ad hom argument:

P1: Vegetarianism is good.
P2: But Hitler was a vegetarian and he was evil!
C: Therefore, vegetarianism is bad.

This argument is both ad hominem and not valid. The conclusion does not follow from the premises.

Whether vegetarianism is good or bad (it appears to be largely good for a number of reasons, though the evidence is far being completely conclusive) has nothing to do with HItler or anyone else. Arguments rise or fall on their own merits.
 
I do n' see anything on the thread tat rises above the normal banter.

Ad hom means to attack the person instead of the message.

Calling her a name is ad hom. Stupid and so on.

Two peas in a pod. You both dig in your heals and go back and forth hitting each other on the head.

You both know the other is not going to budge, but keep whacking each other about the head and shudders, so to speak.

You two should do a live Internet show discussion politics, philosophy, science, and religion. Callers asking questions. It would be a hit.

It seems to me, Steve, that you are hitting her over the head as much if not more than I am. So why are you digging in your heels?

I have explained what an ad hom is. It is not simply calling someone a name. It is saying that someone’s argument is wrong because of some personal characteristic of the person making the argument. Peacegirl does this all the time. I have never done it to her.

I have called her writer (not her) names, but I have never said that his crap is wrong because he is an idiot. I have said he is an idiot because his crap is wrong.

I have called peacegir’s posts idiotic but I have never said that she herself is an idiot.

This is why philosophy, which you disdain, is valuable. In this case, it involves the philosophy of logic.
This is such BS. Even if you didn't say that his crap is wrong because he is an idiot, you called him an idiot, and you called his work crap, which I will not accept. It's a horrible insult to a man who made an important discovery, and I won't let you diminish his 30+ years of work because you don't like his conclusion regarding light and sight.
 
They are not discoveries. There is no threat.
How very unfortunate coming from someone who believes man’s will is not free! 🫩

It has nothing to do with what I may or may not believe. Real time seeing/instant vision has no merit because there is no evidence to support it, and abundant evidence against it.
There is still no evidence that dogs can recognize their masters from sight alone. It is just handwaved away as if it doesn't count. But it does count because it indicates that recognition in dogs requires more than sight alone. IOW, light reaches the dog's eyes (a dog who is not further than 20 ft away, in a picture, or on a screen), but he cannot identify. Of course, this doesn't bother anyone. They just keep telling me that there's no evidence to support the claim, which is untrue. They tell me bees can recognize humans, too. Hmm, from a lineup? :oops: I have said that different cultures have different standards as to what is considered beautiful and ugly, but where does this standard come from, and how do we get conditioned? Answer: We get conditioned by words. How, then, do words get attached to faces if beautiful and ugly faces are not traveling in the light itself? Does the word and face travel together in the light, allowing us to see this beauty and ugliness? Of course not. There has to be a way the word gets associated with certain facial structures. But no, people just handwave away whatever he wrote because they conclude it's of no import. But if children don't grow up believing they are inferior physiognomic productions of the human race, it becomes very important. You have to understand, he saw this from a completely different angle entirely. Although this knowledge did not come from astronomy, it doesn't make him wrong. In fact, knowledge can come from unexpected places. There is nothing in the anatomy of the eyes that proves he is wrong about how the brain and eyes work. Elon Musk and a few others are trying to see if they can make the blind see through internal processes. Only time will tell. I am saddened by the lack of interest other than telling me he was wrong when no one has understood his proof of determinism, either, and why he had to tweak the definition. One of his premises is that the past does not exist except in our memory. This is important because of the confusion over the word cause, which has important implications. If people can't accept that premise, even temporarily, then there is no point in continuing. It's disheartening that this group claims to be objective, but I don't see it.

Evidence that dogs are able to recognize people by sight has been posted, yet you dismiss it out of hand.

Evidence based explanations of the role of eyes in enabling sight have been posted, yet you dismissed it out of hand.

It appears that you value faith over understanding how the world works.
 
Kindergarten slap fight?

Pg

Truth be told the book IS crapola.

I was pointing out that both are using insults but nothing that merits moderation IMO.

But I agree with Pood. You have no idea what you are talking about or what you are dong.

If for al your life wherever you go you get the same responses a rational person might begin to think there is something to the criticism.
 
They are not discoveries. There is no threat.
How very unfortunate coming from someone who believes man’s will is not free! 🫩

It has nothing to do with what I may or may not believe. Real time seeing/instant vision has no merit because there is no evidence to support it, and abundant evidence against it.
There is still no evidence that dogs can recognize their masters from sight alone. It is just handwaved away as if it doesn't count. But it does count because it indicates that recognition in dogs requires more than sight alone. IOW, light reaches the dog's eyes (a dog who is not further than 20 ft away, in a picture, or on a screen), but he cannot identify. Of course, this doesn't bother anyone. They just keep telling me that there's no evidence to support the claim, which is untrue. They tell me bees can recognize humans, too. Hmm, from a lineup? :oops: I have said that different cultures have different standards as to what is considered beautiful and ugly, but where does this standard come from, and how do we get conditioned? Answer: We get conditioned by words. How, then, do words get attached to faces if beautiful and ugly faces are not traveling in the light itself? Does the word and face travel together in the light, allowing us to see this beauty and ugliness? Of course not. There has to be a way the word gets associated with certain facial structures. But no, people just handwave away whatever he wrote because they conclude it's of no import. But if children don't grow up believing they are inferior physiognomic productions of the human race, it becomes very important. You have to understand, he saw this from a completely different angle entirely. Although this knowledge did not come from astronomy, it doesn't make him wrong. In fact, knowledge can come from unexpected places. There is nothing in the anatomy of the eyes that proves he is wrong about how the brain and eyes work. Elon Musk and a few others are trying to see if they can make the blind see through internal processes. Only time will tell. I am saddened by the lack of interest other than telling me he was wrong when no one has understood his proof of determinism, either, and why he had to tweak the definition. One of his premises is that the past does not exist except in our memory. This is important because of the confusion over the word cause, which has important implications. If people can't accept that premise, even temporarily, then there is no point in continuing. It's disheartening that this group claims to be objective, but I don't see it.

Evidence that dogs are able to recognize people by sight has been posted, yet you dismiss it out of hand.
Where has it been posted? There are many more like this one.




Evidence based explanations of the role of eyes in enabling sight have been posted, yet you dismissed it out of hand.

It appears that you value faith over understanding how the world works.
Oh my goodness. You are like Pood, without proof. Show me dogs that have not seen their masters in a long time but can easily recognize them from sight alone. What is it going to take?

 
Ad hom means to attack the person instead of the message.
Well, yes, but also no.

That erroneous usage has become so popular that the correct usage has been forgotten; And so the erroneous usage has become "correct" via the democratic process.

It's like "decimated", which means "killed one in ten", but which has come to be used erroneously so often to mean "obliterated", that "decimated" and "obliterated" are now synonyms.

Ad Hom. is the logical fallacy of rejecting a claim because of the quality of the arguer as a person, rather than because of the quality of their argument.

If Trump says the sun rises in the West, it is NOT Ad Hom. to say "The sun observably rises in the East, therefore Trump is an idiot". It IS Ad Hom. to say "Trump is an idiot, therefore the sun does not rise in the West".

Note that both arguments state that Trump is an idiot, but only one is an Ad Hom.
 
To repeat: It is not a contradiction because light is constantly traveling with individual packets of photons, but it does not bounce off the object taking the frequency/wavelength with it through space/time. It is not so out the door as you claim, that it is impossible to be true.
"light is constantly traveling with individual packets of photons, but it does not bounce off the object taking the frequency/wavelength with it through space/time" says nothing about whether anything is or is not a contradiction. In fact, it really doesn't say anything at all - I don't care much what you claim is NOT happening; I want to know what you claim IS happening.

All that sentence claims is "light is constantly traveling with individual packets of photons", which is not a very elegant way to phrase the concept that light travels at lightspeed, as photons. But it's not in dispute, so so far you have added ZERO to your case. The above is valueless preamble.

Let's see if you actually have something to say:
The reason we see an object is that the light is at the eye,
OK. Again, we agree. Photons arrive at the eye, and until they do, we cannot see an object.
as long as the object is within our field of view.
Photons generally travel in straight lines, so again, it is not in dispute that we see only those objects that are in our field of view.

Again, this is just "filler"; You need to cut out the parts of your argument on which there is agreement by everyone on both sides, because those parts are valueless - they either do nothing, or they obscure your actual argument.
If it is too far away, we won't see it because there is no light at our eyes.
Well, insufficient light, yes. Eyes don't detect very small numbers of photons, there's a minimum number that must impinge on the retina to evoke a response.
We can see nothing without light.
Again, needless padding. Nobody says otherwise.
A telescope could help if the object isn't so far away that the light can't be collected and focused,
Indeed; A telescope collects photons as they travel, and concentrates them so that enough are available for sight.
such that the magnification can then make the object appear larger.
Telescopes don't magnify; You are thinking of magnifying glasses, which are totally different.
It does not violate anything.
What doesn't? Your only controversial claim here is that "[light] does not bounce off the object taking the frequency/wavelength with it", which is a negative claim. Nobody cares what doesn't happen; We want to know what you think DOES happen.

Nothing you say here in any way supports instant vision; Mostly it's pointless filler, and the rest agrees that "The reason we see an object is that the light is at the eye", which it can only be if it has come there from somewhere else, because "light is constantly traveling with individual packets of photons".

So where has it come from, and how does it allow us to see the object if it hasn't come from the object?

The apparent contradiction is that you claim the light hasn't come from the object, but is somehow "at the eye". From where, if not from the object? And if from elsewhere, how does that light carry information about the object, including (as a minimum) that it even exists?
 
Ad hom means to attack the person instead of the message.
Well, yes, but also no.

That erroneous usage has become so popular that the correct usage has been forgotten; And so the erroneous usage has become "correct" via the democratic process.

It's like "decimated", which means "killed one in ten", but which has come to be used erroneously so often to mean "obliterated", that "decimated" and "obliterated" are now synonyms.

Ad Hom. is the logical fallacy of rejecting a claim because of the quality of the arguer as a person, rather than because of the quality of their argument.

If Trump says the sun rises in the West, it is NOT Ad Hom. to say "The sun observably rises in the East, therefore Trump is an idiot". It IS Ad Hom. to say "Trump is an idiot, therefore the sun does not rise in the West".

Note that both arguments state that Trump is an idiot, but only one is an Ad Hom.
Both are crass and are an effort to persuade the listeners by stirring their emotions. Why use the word "idiot" at all if not to use name-calling as an underhanded tactic?
 
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Ad hom means to attack the person instead of the message.
Well, yes, but also no.

That erroneous usage has become so popular that the correct usage has been forgotten; And so the erroneous usage has become "correct" via the democratic process.

It's like "decimated", which means "killed one in ten", but which has come to be used erroneously so often to mean "obliterated", that "decimated" and "obliterated" are now synonyms.

Ad Hom. is the logical fallacy of rejecting a claim because of the quality of the arguer as a person, rather than because of the quality of their argument.

If Trump says the sun rises in the West, it is NOT Ad Hom. to say "The sun observably rises in the East, therefore Trump is an idiot". It IS Ad Hom. to say "Trump is an idiot, therefore the sun does not rise in the West".

Note that both arguments state that Trump is an idiot, but only one is an Ad Hom.

This is exactly right.

So when peacegirl says someone’s argument against her writer’s light and sight nonsense is wrong because that person is biased, has preconceived notions, or feels their world view is threatened, that is ad hom.

It is NOT ad hom to say, “The evidence overwhelmingly shows that we see in delayed time, therefore someone ignoring this evidence must be an idiot.” However, the latter could be a non sequitur, since it is perfectly possible for an idiot to make a good argument and for a smart person to make a bad argument.

In the former case, peacegirl is refusing to engage in the explicit and detailed arguments against her position, but turning things personal, saying we must have something wrong with us when we refute her writer’s claims. This is ad hom, and a convenient way to dodge coming to terms with the fact that her writer’s claims, and hers, are simply wrong.
 
Both are crass and are an effort to persuade the listeners by stirring their emotions. Why use the word "idiot" at all if not to use name-calling as an underhanded tactic?
This is rich coming from the likes of you. Telling someone that their detailed arguments against your writer’s claims are discredited because they are irrational or afraid of having their world view challenged is not just name calling, it is, as described above, ad hom.

And, as described above, it is a way for you to avoid coming to grips with the gaping holes in your argument by turning things personal. It is your escape valve, your safety hatch, when backed into an argumentative corner.
 
“You are irrational, therefore your argument is wrong” is ad hom and a non sequitur. Even an irrational person can make a good argument. The point is that arguments rise or fall on their own merits and not on the personal characteristic of the person making them.

It is NOT ad hom to say, “It is irrational to ignore mountains of evidence for theory x and instead plump for theory y, which has no evidence and moreover is logically inconsisent.”

Ad hom: “Picasso often mistreated women and ignored his children, therefore his art sucks,”

Not ad hom: Picasso often mistreated women and ignored his children, therefore he was a bad man.” The conclusion validly follows from the premises, and the argument is sound if both premises are actually true. However, this claim has nothing to do with the merits of his art, which is independent of his personal behavior.
 
To repeat: It is not a contradiction because light is constantly traveling with individual packets of photons, but it does not bounce off the object taking the frequency/wavelength with it through space/time. It is not so out the door as you claim, that it is impossible to be true.
"light is constantly traveling with individual packets of photons, but it does not bounce off the object taking the frequency/wavelength with it through space/time" says nothing about whether anything is or is not a contradiction.
It isn't meant to say anything about a contradiction; it is meant to show how real-time seeing is capable of working without contradiction.
In fact, it really doesn't say anything at all - I don't care much what you claim is NOT happening; I want to know what you claim IS happening.

All that sentence claims is "light is constantly traveling with individual packets of photons", which is not a very elegant way to phrase the concept that light travels at lightspeed, as photons. But it's not in dispute, so so far you have added ZERO to your case. The above is valueless preamble.
But that is exactly what IS IN DISPUTE.
Let's see if you actually have something to say:
The reason we see an object is that the light is at the eye,
OK. Again, we agree. Photons arrive at the eye, and until they do, we cannot see an object.
No bilby. Photons that the object reflects do not arrive because they do not travel; the light is like a mirror image, which allows us to see the object. This does not contradict the fact that photons travel at light speed.
as long as the object is within our field of view.
Photons generally travel in straight lines, so again, it is not in dispute that we see only those objects that are in our field of view.

Again, this is just "filler"; You need to cut out the parts of your argument on which there is agreement by everyone on both sides, because those parts are valueless - they either do nothing, or they obscure your actual argument.
It's not a filler. I was confirming that we would get the same result whether in real or delayed time. The ONLY difference is the time element.
If it is too far away, we won't see it because there is no light at our eyes.
Well, insufficient light, yes. Eyes don't detect very small numbers of photons, there's a minimum number that must impinge on the retina to evoke a response.
True, which does not contradict real-time vision whatsoever.
We can see nothing without light.
Again, needless padding. Nobody says otherwise.
It's not padding. People keep assuming that seeing in real time would mean we see without light being at the eye; that there would be a gap between the eye and the object seen. Light has to be at the eye, which does not violate physics.
A telescope could help if the object isn't so far away that the light can't be collected and focused,
Indeed; A telescope collects photons as they travel, and concentrates them so that enough are available for sight.
Agreed.
such that the magnification can then make the object appear larger.
Telescopes don't magnify; You are thinking of magnifying glasses, which are totally different.
Yes, telescopes magnify distant objects, allowing us to see them more clearly by using a combination of lenses and mirrors to enlarge the image.

How​

  1. Basic Principle: Telescopes work by collecting light from distant objects and focusing it to create a magnified image. This is achieved through the use of an objective lens (or primary mirror) and an eyepiece lens. The objective lens gathers light and forms a real image, which the eyepiece then magnifies for the viewer.

    2
  2. Magnification Calculation: The magnification of a telescope is calculated using the formula:
  3. ODF.sNoUwHoft870Dn-KEcEaRA

    ODF.FPzDagJM6adaEGjRMAInEA


    2 Sources
Magnification=Focal Length of TelescopeFocal Length of EyepieceMagnification=Focal Length of EyepieceFocal Length of Telescope
For example, if a telescope has a focal length of 1000 mm and an eyepiece has a focal length of 10 mm, the magnification would be 100x, meaning the object appears 100 times larger than it does to the naked eye.
Telescope Guides+1

Types of Telescopes: There are two main types of telescopes that utilize magnification:

Importance​

https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=4693...YWduaWZpY2F0aW9uLWJlZ2lubmVycy1ndWlkZS8&ntb=1
It does not violate anything.
What doesn't? Your only controversial claim here is that "[light] does not bounce off the object taking the frequency/wavelength with it", which is a negative claim. Nobody cares what doesn't happen; We want to know what you think DOES happen.
I have explained this numerous times. Where have you been?
Nothing you say here in any way supports instant vision; Mostly it's pointless filler, and the rest agrees that "The reason we see an object is that the light is at the eye", which it can only be if it has come there from somewhere else, because "light is constantly traveling with individual packets of photons".
It does come from somewhere. It comes from the object's reflection, but that reflection doesn't travel. There is a difference between packets of photons traveling at light speed, and what we are seeing. Light is constantly being replaced, but once again, it doesn't change the fact that the reflection does not travel with the frequency/wavelength through space/time. You are going to have to square this "apparent" contradiction with what is actually happening, which is not a contradiction at all.
So where has it come from, and how does it allow us to see the object if it hasn't come from the object?
Scroll up.
The apparent contradiction is that you claim the light hasn't come from the object, but is somehow "at the eye". From where, if not from the object? And if from elsewhere, how does that light carry information about the object, including (as a minimum) that it even exists?
Light isn't carrying information. It is revealing information from the object through light. What allows this is efferent vision. If he is right about this claim, then it changes the direction in which we see.
 
Attention Ladies And Gentleman!

Look out the widow and Flight 316 from Newark is not arriving at gate 34, it is being seen at gate 34.

Pg
Light isn't carrying information. It is revealing information from the object through light.

I see. My spoken words are not conveying information encoded int the sounds, it is revealing information?

There is verbal communication with contextual subjective meaning, and there i precise theory that describes how light interacts with objects and how that interaction is interpreted by the eye/brain.

Pg speaks philosophically subjective and others speak from science.

I don't think #1 is stated quite right, but that is AI for you.

The aperture of a 10 inch Newtonian scope is bigger than your eye, so it gathers more light. A 'light bucket' so to speak.

Magnification is related to the focal lengths of he objective and eyepiece lenses.

There are armature astronomy and telescope making books that are easy to read. I can help you find one if you want.

To real;l\y understand magnification you need to learn ray tracing, for tat you need trigonometry.
 
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To repeat: It is not a contradiction because light is constantly traveling with individual packets of photons, but it does not bounce off the object taking the frequency/wavelength with it through space/time. It is not so out the door as you claim, that it is impossible to be true.
"light is constantly traveling with individual packets of photons, but it does not bounce off the object taking the frequency/wavelength with it through space/time" says nothing about whether anything is or is not a contradiction.
It isn't meant to say anything about a contradiction; it is meant to show how real-time seeing is capable of working without contradiction.

The claim that light takes time to get to the eye yet is at the eye instantly violates the Law of Noncontradiction, as I have shown.
In fact, it really doesn't say anything at all - I don't care much what you claim is NOT happening; I want to know what you claim IS happening.

All that sentence claims is "light is constantly traveling with individual packets of photons", which is not a very elegant way to phrase the concept that light travels at lightspeed, as photons. But it's not in dispute, so so far you have added ZERO to your case. The above is valueless preamble.
But that is exactly what IS IN DISPUTE.

It’s in dispute?? You yourself have said that light travels at light speed! Can you not keep track of your own posts?
Let's see if you actually have something to say:
The reason we see an object is that the light is at the eye,
OK. Again, we agree. Photons arrive at the eye, and until they do, we cannot see an object.
No bilby. Photons that the object reflects do not arrive because they do not travel;
They don’t travel?? Yet you said earlier that they DO travel.
the light is like a mirror image, which allows us to see the object. This does not contradict the fact that photons travel at light speed.

Oh! So now they DO travel! So you directly contradict yourself in a single reply!
as long as the object is within our field of view.
Photons generally travel in straight lines, so again, it is not in dispute that we see only those objects that are in our field of view.

Again, this is just "filler"; You need to cut out the parts of your argument on which there is agreement by everyone on both sides, because those parts are valueless - they either do nothing, or they obscure your actual argument.
It's not a filler. I was confirming that we would get the same result whether in real or delayed time. The ONLY difference is the time element.

No, we would not get the same result, as has been shown to you countless times.
If it is too far away, we won't see it because there is no light at our eyes.
Well, insufficient light, yes. Eyes don't detect very small numbers of photons, there's a minimum number that must impinge on the retina to evoke a response.
True, which does not contradict real-time vision whatsoever.

It does. Completely,
We can see nothing without light.
Again, needless padding. Nobody says otherwise.
It's not padding. People keep assuming that seeing in real time would mean we see without light being at the eye; that there would be a gap between the eye and the object seen. Light has to be at the eye, which does not violate physics.

Right. And it takes light time to get to the eye. So real-time seeing is impossible Q.E.D.
 
Ad hom means to attack the person instead of the message.
Well, yes, but also no.

That erroneous usage has become so popular that the correct usage has been forgotten; And so the erroneous usage has become "correct" via the democratic process.

It's like "decimated", which means "killed one in ten", but which has come to be used erroneously so often to mean "obliterated", that "decimated" and "obliterated" are now synonyms.

Ad Hom. is the logical fallacy of rejecting a claim because of the quality of the arguer as a person, rather than because of the quality of their argument.

If Trump says the sun rises in the West, it is NOT Ad Hom. to say "The sun observably rises in the East, therefore Trump is an idiot". It IS Ad Hom. to say "Trump is an idiot, therefore the sun does not rise in the West".

Note that both arguments state that Trump is an idiot, but only one is an Ad Hom.

This is exactly right.

So when peacegirl says someone’s argument against her writer’s light and sight nonsense is wrong because that person is biased, has preconceived notions, or feels their world view is threatened, that is ad hom.

It is NOT ad hom to say, “The evidence overwhelmingly shows that we see in delayed time, therefore someone ignoring this evidence must be an idiot.” However, the latter could be a non sequitur, since it is perfectly possible for an idiot to make a good argument and for a smart person to make a bad argument.

In the former case, peacegirl is refusing to engage in the explicit and detailed arguments against her position, but turning things personal, saying we must have something wrong with us when we refute her writer’s claims. This is ad hom, and a convenient way to dodge coming to terms with the fact that her writer’s claims, and hers, are simply wrong.
I can't even make sense of the definitions that define ad homs. I am confused with the double-talk as much as everyone else :confused2:
 
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