barbos
Contributor
So?
we are "murdering" polish, Colombian and really mercenaries from all over the globe there too
Yet another war, this time with Iran
- Thread starter Jason Harvestdancer
- Start date
we are "murdering" polish, Colombian and really mercenaries from all over the globe there too
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2002
- Messages
- 50,507
- Location
- Frozen in Michigan
- Gender
- Old Fart
- Basic Beliefs
- Don't be a dick.
Why don't you stop bullshitting and actually provide a link to WTF you are talking about?
According to Moscow Bob, Russia has been killing zombies for 3 1/2 years. He's not the most reliable source of information.
TV and credit cards
Contributor
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2013
- Messages
- 8,898
- Location
- The Enlightened City
- Basic Beliefs
- Cautiously optimistic
Jimmy Higgins
Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2001
- Messages
- 53,361
- Basic Beliefs
- Calvinistic Atheist
Seems kind of daft for the Russian Military to be murdering Russians.
barbos
Contributor
What are you gonna do if they commit terrorism?
I provided it multiple times, you just choose to ignore it.
Jimmy Higgins
Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2001
- Messages
- 53,361
- Basic Beliefs
- Calvinistic Atheist
So, we are in what... Day 101 of Iran? The most winningly won war in American history? It isn't a war right now. The US military ran out of objectives on the board for their not planned out "just following orders" Iranian War. So we paused and have been pretending the Strait of Hormuz shutdown isn't remotely as big of a deal as it is.
Trump is insisting... well... he has insisted on everything from he 'doesn't care' to scorching Iran if 'they don't make a deal'. Deals have been everything from no one close to imminent. A magic-eight ball is most honest that Trump and the Trump Admin has been on Iran, except when former DNI Director testified that Iranian leadership was weakened, but intact. Trump has lately been saying the US will take the enriched uranium by force if necessary. A suggestion that seems as absurd now as it did in 101 days ago.
Meanwhile Israel is attacking Lebanon territory in the hopes that they are just a few more attacks away from permanent security. Iran responded by firing missiles at Israel, hoping maybe this time they'll get lucky, unlike most of the other times.
Israel wants what won't be allowed by some nations and can't come to peace with the lack of peace and insist on counterproductive methods that will never achieve the reasonable goal of peace
United States wants what it doesn't have the capacity to take and the current leadership is the reason we lack intel on it and are oblivious to diplomacy and general knowledge
Iran are a bunch of radical boobs
And with each passing day, it seems that we are in an entanglement of stupidity that is drawing the planet nearer a fuel crisis that appears to be completely avoidable.
Trump is insisting... well... he has insisted on everything from he 'doesn't care' to scorching Iran if 'they don't make a deal'. Deals have been everything from no one close to imminent. A magic-eight ball is most honest that Trump and the Trump Admin has been on Iran, except when former DNI Director testified that Iranian leadership was weakened, but intact. Trump has lately been saying the US will take the enriched uranium by force if necessary. A suggestion that seems as absurd now as it did in 101 days ago.
Meanwhile Israel is attacking Lebanon territory in the hopes that they are just a few more attacks away from permanent security. Iran responded by firing missiles at Israel, hoping maybe this time they'll get lucky, unlike most of the other times.
Israel wants what won't be allowed by some nations and can't come to peace with the lack of peace and insist on counterproductive methods that will never achieve the reasonable goal of peace
United States wants what it doesn't have the capacity to take and the current leadership is the reason we lack intel on it and are oblivious to diplomacy and general knowledge
Iran are a bunch of radical boobs
And with each passing day, it seems that we are in an entanglement of stupidity that is drawing the planet nearer a fuel crisis that appears to be completely avoidable.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2002
- Messages
- 50,507
- Location
- Frozen in Michigan
- Gender
- Old Fart
- Basic Beliefs
- Don't be a dick.
Provide it again. None of us remembers everything we've seen on the internet.
I honestly believe barbos expects you to trawl through a 1,163 page, 23,280 posts thread to find the *one* time he actually showed credible receipts.
Derec
Contributor
It was a mistake to pause. US should have continued to pound IRGC targets, especially those connected with their missile and drone capabilities, including fabrication facilities. By now, their ability to threaten their neighbors and Israel would be close to zero had attacks have been sustained. That would also have diminished their ability to project power into the Strait.
And once IRGC is sufficiently weakened, local groups could be aided and used to fight regime forces on the ground in order to liberate their own country.
The problem with Trump is that he TACOed so much, nobody is taking his threats seriously. Add to that US politicians who would rather see Iran win and the regime become stronger than to allow Trump to have a W before the Midterms, and it's a recipe for a defeat, not one due to military facts, but just politics.
Which does not mean that they cannot be weakened further to the point of cracking.
At this point, yes. But mostly because we have done very little for most of the last 101 days.
Hezbollah keeps attacking Israel from Lebanese territory. What do you expect Israel to do? Lebanon should have done more against Hezbollah decades ago, before they got so entrenched. But the main problem is Iran, or rather its regime. It acts like the head of the octopus, with Hezbollah one of its many tentacles. That's why it's so important to dismantle it. Cephalopods may be able to regenerate the podes, but not the cephalos.
I do not think going after Hezbollah operatives and assets is counterproductive. It is not enough to destroy them in the long run, but it is enough to contain Hezbollah and limit the danger they pose. Not doing anything would be far worse.
I think US definitely has the capacity to defeat the regime. The problem is that neither TACO Trump nor the US Congress have the patience to prosecute the war against Iran effectively, nor the stomach to ignore the higher oil prices that would be the temporary effect of a more intense warfare against IRGC and the rest of the regime. The German saying "Lieber ein Ende mit Schrecken, als Schrecken ohne Ende" applies here. Better to go through a temporary horrible period to end a bad situation, than to endure that bad situation (i.e. Iranian regime persisting) without end.
First thing I can agree with 100%.
It looks like there has been a modest increase in total rigs in recent weeks. That together with reduction in demand due to higher prices should counteract it becoming a fuel crisis. Oil and gasoline prices are still lower than they have been in certain periods of recent history, esp. when adjusted for inflation.
Last edited:
bilby
Fair dinkum thinkum
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2007
- Messages
- 44,080
- Gender
- He/Him
- Basic Beliefs
- Strong Atheist
It was an unavoidable result of failure to plan. Trump ignored congress until he ran out of time.
Apparently he forgot he wasn't a supreme dictator with unlimited powers - again.
That seems unduly optimistic. The history of modern warfare, going all the way back to 1914, suggests that defenders are always able to survive, and to retain their ability to fight, despite apparently overwhelming bombardment.
Not really; That ability comes from having a very long and rugged coastline with vast numbers of small boats.
Projecting power into the strait - if the objective is merely to make it unsafe to the point of uninsurability for cargo vessels - requires no more than a few small boats and a few nutters with AK47s.
They could have been, if they hadn't been called upon by Trump to rise up right at the start of his war, and been slaughtered.
The survivors are not going to be fooled into that again, after seeing the IRGC mow down their friends.
Also, he had no plan from day one.
Also, he has no understanding of his enemy on any level.
Maybe, but there's also no military path to victory. More dakka isn't the stategic genius plan you seem to imagine it to be.
Iran is (like Afghanistan and Vietnam) simply not a place you can defeat militarily. Having more and better weapons is useless against fanatical defenders; For some reason, the USA is very slow to learn this fact.
The Iranian leadership has been weakened to the point where the IRGC have been able to take over.
The nut is FAR harder to crack today than it was a hundred days ago.
The US and Israeli attack on Iran succeeded in the aim of regime change, but failed because the change turned out to be for the worse, not for the better.
Well done.
Well, given that everything you have done has made things worse for you, as everyone (except Trump and his sycophants) knew from the outset that it would, the less you did the less you hurt yourselves.
Doing very little was bad enough. Doing more would have been even worse.
<snipped irrelevant crap about Israel>
Then you don't understand what "defeat the regime" entails.
What would "prosecute the war against Iran effectively" look like? A full scale ground invasion and push to Tehran? Nuking Tehran?
Could the US do either of those things without serious repercussions? Would either even achieve the goal of removing the IRGC from power?
That's nice. But what makes you think that the horrible period entailed by (for example) a ground war would be either temporary, or effective in ending the bad situation?
If you think the bad situation can be ended by air and missile strikes alone, then you are standing against the entire weight of C20th warfare as a counterexample.
Whatever your definition of "crisis", it is undeniable that the world fuel situation today is far less good than it was before this stupid war.
Are you not aware of things like back when all those boats were coming to Florida he opened up the prisons and sent the prisoners north?
Jimmy Higgins
Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2001
- Messages
- 53,361
- Basic Beliefs
- Calvinistic Atheist
Cuba?! I get that they are both four letter nation names, but jebus! Is Cuba blocking the Strait of Trump that allows ship traffic from the Trump Ocean into the Gulf of Trump?
No, the first Russian invasion caused the insurgency. And probably some terrorism but attacks on government forces isn't terrorism.
Does 10/7 not ring a bell?
They do not have 4,309 atom bombs. They might have 4,309 objects that were at one time atom bombs but there's no way most of them work by now.
And note that their missiles are liquid fueled. If we launch on their silos what are the odds their missile crews can get their birds in the air before they are destroyed? Zero. They have ONE boomer sometimes on patrol.
We already bled Russia into collapse once. Without firing a shot. Why would we want an unnecessary shooting war?
Exactly. Russian nukes are not good. Loose nukes are much worse.
That's why we prop up the Russian space program--keep their rocket engineers employed in Russia rather than offering their services to countries more likely to actually use the weapons.
Same reason we gave them the technology we use to secure our warheads. No charge, it's just we wanted to reduce the risk of a loose nuke.
Yugoslavia destroyed itself. It was multiple groups forced together, when the control collapsed things turned brutal. The west wasn't able to ignore the atrocities so we finally did something about it. Look at your on-again-off-again war with Pakistan--groups that didn't want to coexist, remove the iron hand that was keeping them together.
Because the Jews have always been a convenient target.