Here Comes The Left

[Tigers!]

All of them sound so wonderful. Has to be funded somehow though.

Make the payroll tax a flat tax on all earnings and all those problems go away.

I have never understood why taxing more those who employ others is such a good idea. A way to raise money, yes. But a reason for some business to not bother hiring more staff.

 

[ZiprHead]

No, not "liberal". Socialists despise (even American-style) liberals because they still support capitalism. If anything, the socialists tend to hate liberals more than they do conservatives.

You're always long on statements but short on proof. And of course your interpretation of socialism is the only correct one.

 

[ZiprHead]

All of them sound so wonderful. Has to be funded somehow though.

Make the payroll tax a flat tax on all earnings and all those problems go away.

I have never understood why taxing more those who employ others is such a good idea. A way to raise money, yes. But a reason for some business to not bother hiring more staff.

Your statement doesn't seem to address anything I said.

 

[TSwizzle]

I think it's bizarre that some of you are afraid of a small number of liberal politicians who identify as Democratic Socialists

The likes of Chevalier and Mamdani are not liberals, they are full on Marxists.

This is the reason to adhering to the strengths of tradition for Governance is important. Because it should be capable of managing radicals from either wing. In NYC, Mamdani the "Marxist" can't seize the wealth of the bourgeoise. He can't seize property and redistribute it. Our Government protects things such right to property ownership.

I didn’t say he could. Mamdani is merely the mayor of NYC and doesn’t have any power to do the things you mention. But he is still a full on Marxist.

Who cares even if he were?

Are you disputing that Mandani is a Marxist?

But there are guardrails still, at least in most states, if no longer in DC.

Thankfully. Because if he did have that kind of power, you can be sure he would be doing it. He doesn’t hide it.

It is odd that you are concerned about what Mamdani can't do verses what the idiot in the White House has done.

Sure, Jan.

 

[ZiprHead]

Are you disputing that Mandani is a Marxist?

Can you define Marxism?

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Are you disputing that Mandani is a Marxist?

Can you define Marxism?

Nope.

 

[Ford]

Are you disputing that Mandani is a Marxist?

Can you define Marxism?

Nope.

Huh...there's something that I seem to remember about the "burden of proof." If someone makes the claim that it is undeniable that Mamdani is a Marxist, then...well, you know the rest.

 

[southernhybrid]

when our country is heading towards Fascism under the current administration.

lol, not hardly.

I finally have a few minutes to straighten out somebody who apparently needs to find a new source of news or to pay attention to what's happening in this country.

https://www.thenation.com/article/society/trump-fascism-tyranny/

ir you don't like the source of this info, do some of your own DD as there are more sources than I care to count that proclaim fascism has come to the US and/or Trump is a fascist. It's obvious to anyone that has a working brain or pays attention to what dear leader and his toadies are doing to our country.

As we come up on the anniversary of the 2024 election, it seems as good a time as any to ask, “Has it happened here?” Can we meaningfully call the second Trump administration a fascist regime? For most casual observers, it’s not much of a question. What are you supposed to call it when masked and uniformed federal police show up at a political rally for an opposition politician? Or when the president essentially declares martial law in the capital city? Or, for that matter, when the executive is trying to enforce its cultural policy on a nation’s universities and museums? And what else to call it when the administration is trying to cook the unemployment numbers to hide a struggling economic picture? What do you call it when a senior White House aide says they are “looking at” suspending habeas corpus? Or when the government deports people without due process to camps beyond the rule of law, where internees are subject to torture? Pedants will still protest that this or that detail does not align historically, and that it is not as violent, dramatic, and all-encompassing as Hitlerism or Mussolini-ism, but they can’t really tar their opponents as hysterics or alarmists anymore. They must admit, the alarms were somewhat justified. Surely this is it, or some version of it.

 

[Derec]

I would be interested in any details you would be willing to share

Hyperinflation is one thing I remember. Being sent to the grocery store (which was a worker self-managed co-op like 99% of companies) with a couple of 100,000,000,000 dinar bills to get a few things. And then, you could never be sure the store would not be out of some staple or other.

And note that all this was still better than the actual Warsaw Pact countries.

 

[Derec]

Now, if Mamdani were to say strip all the regulatory groups and replace them with communists in communist garb

Well, he did put his people on the rent stabilization board, who promptly did his bidding by freezing the rent for two years.

 

[TSwizzle]

when our country is heading towards Fascism under the current administration.

lol, not hardly.

I finally have a few minutes to straighten out somebody who apparently needs to find a new source of news or to pay attention to what's happening in this country.

https://www.thenation.com/article/society/trump-fascism-tyranny/

ir you don't like the source of this info, do some of your own DD as there are more sources than I care to count that proclaim fascism has come to the US and/or Trump is a fascist. It's obvious to anyone that has a working brain or pays attention to what dear leader and his toadies are doing to our country.

As we come up on the anniversary of the 2024 election, it seems as good a time as any to ask, “Has it happened here?” Can we meaningfully call the second Trump administration a fascist regime? For most casual observers, it’s not much of a question. What are you supposed to call it when masked and uniformed federal police show up at a political rally for an opposition politician? Or when the president essentially declares martial law in the capital city? Or, for that matter, when the executive is trying to enforce its cultural policy on a nation’s universities and museums? And what else to call it when the administration is trying to cook the unemployment numbers to hide a struggling economic picture? What do you call it when a senior White House aide says they are “looking at” suspending habeas corpus? Or when the government deports people without due process to camps beyond the rule of law, where internees are subject to torture? Pedants will still protest that this or that detail does not align historically, and that it is not as violent, dramatic, and all-encompassing as Hitlerism or Mussolini-ism, but they can’t really tar their opponents as hysterics or alarmists anymore. They must admit, the alarms were somewhat justified. Surely this is it, or some version of it.

Grasping at straws here and the article is behind a paywall.

 

[Derec]

Then even Biden and Harris were "radical". Seems to be the boy who cried wolf.

Biden was a moderate throughout his career, and ran in 2020 as a moderate. But he shifted to the left when he actually got to the White House, especially on economy and spending.
How Biden Surprised Progressives
The Sad Tale of Moderate Joe Biden
Are you really going to deny this?

And then Kamala. I am baffled that some people insist that she is some kind of centrist. She was one of the most left-wing Senators during her tenure there.

And during her 2020 campaign, she advocated nutty left-wing ideas like banning fracking and offshore drilling.
That is not a moderate. That is not a centrist.

I'm also curious about what ideas of the DSA you find "nutty". I'm sure they have some unpragmatic ideas. Maybe even some fantasies. but I'm curious what you think is "nutty". I apparently don't go to their website as often as you do.

I am not thebeave, but I posted a list of some of the nutty positions from their platform upthread, all the way in post #39. You can start there.

 

[Derec]

We could start with Henry Ford and the Jews.

If he was alive today, he could run as a DSA candidate funded by the American Palestinian Priorities SuperPAC.

 

[Derec]

"All of the failed attempts at managed economic socialism, and excluding all the successful attempts at social democracies."

Because social democracies are capitalist, not socialist. So they are rightly excluded from the set of socialist systems.

 

[Derec]

I didn’t ask for a definition, I asked what socialist country you were. If you don’t wish to answer, fine, but I don’t want nor need a panoply of examples.

SFRY.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Are you disputing that Mandani is a Marxist?

Can you define Marxism?

Nope.

Huh...there's something that I seem to remember about the "burden of proof." If someone makes the claim that it is undeniable that Mamdani is a Marxist, then...well, you know the rest.

We're at the point now where just accepting the concept of "equality" gets you labelled as a "Marxist".

 

[Derec]

Universal healthcare is a an example.

"Universal healthcare" is a broad field, and not necessarily socialist. For example, German-style public option (called AOK there) is not socialist, but a single payer system with a government monopoly on healthcare delivery would be.

The DSA controls no county, state or country.

This thread is about them more and more taking over the Democratic Party. That said, I would not be so sure that they do not control some county governments by now.

Hell, Mandami doesn’t even control NYC.

Oh, for fuck's sake. I hate the guy, but at least I know what his name is. Mamdani. It's not that difficult to write -easier than eating biryani with your fingers.
But he most certainly controls NYC. For example, he just imposed a rent freeze for two years. There is the city council, you might say. I doubt they will go against any of his proposals.

But hey, focus on the virtually nonexistent threats like Trump wants you to.

They are certainly a threat.

They are already associated with socialism.

And you think leaning in and embracing that ideology will make it better?

 

[Derec]

Donald Trump held a riot to retain the Presidency... and half of the GOP in the House voted to support the throwing out of the election results. And when that didn't work, the GOP in the House and Senate en masse saved his ass from impeachment! That isn't hyperbole, that is historical fact.

Again with the whataboutism! There are plenty of threads about Trump and the GOP. This thread is about the far left takeover of the Democratic Party.

I don't want to read about how getting some people on the farther out portions of the left into Congress is "bad for the country". Our democracy has Stage 3 cancer right now. It was Stage 1 when Gingrich became the Speaker of the House.

Hyperbolic for sure, but why do you think increasing polarization in Congress by electing more socialists would help things rather than make them worse?

You apparently have no faith in the US Economic engine and it's ability to be survive. Heck, with all the consolidation, it won't require all too much to maintain a general status quo.

Any economic engine can be wrecked with poor governance.

 

[Derec]

You're always long on statements but short on proof.

What "proof" would you accept even? I base of what I said from personal experience with actual socialists.

And of course your interpretation of socialism is the only correct one.

It is the actual definition of socialism. If we were to accept the definition that confuses social programs with socialism, then every modern country would be "socialist" and the term would be meaningless. That reminds me also of the attempts to redefine "infrastructure" as anything Dems wanted to spend on as part of the $3.6T Spendapalooza.

 

[Derec]

Are you disputing that Mandani is a Marxist?

Can you define Marxism?

It is the socialist ideology developed by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels in the mid to late 19th century. You can read the Wiki page if you want more details.
 Marxism

Mamdani is most definitely a Marxist. We went over it in the Mamdani thread. He, while a state legislator, he talked about "class consciousness" and stated that he wants to "win socialism by seizing the means of production". Those are Marxist ideas.

Note that electing more socialists, which is what he is doing right now by endorsing extremists like Chevalier, is exactly what he is doing right now. This is all part of his plan.