Christians - who convinced you of the truth of god/jesus?

[southernhybrid]

Remember, it's not a sin, crime, or atrocity if The Creator does it. Thus sayeth St. Cuckoo of the Tribunal of the Holy Veil, and thus sayeth all church fathers through the ages.

Plus, if you confess your sins, Jesus will forgive you.

A few weeks ago, a woman who I know at our senior center came to speak to me and a friend of mine. She told us that a guy in her church confessed to committing a murder about 40 years but the guilt was so bad that he went to the police and confessed. Then he was arrested. She told us that she was so glad that he had confessed his sins and accepted Jesus because now he was saved and would spend eternity in heaven.

This is the kind of shit that one puts up with in the Bible Belt. I do have atheist friends and an atheist husband, but most people just assume that you are a Christian. It's annoying at times. My favorite worker at the senior center is a non believer and she and I have briefly vented a few times. She, like a former doctor of mine remain in the closet out of fear of being judged. It doesn't matter if you're a good person to these Christians, it'a all about believing what they do or you're doomed. Why the fuck is belief so damned important?

I guess that the KJV verse, "judge that ye be not judged" doesn't mean a damn thing to these people. I do know some liberal Christians who aren't like that, but I really don't get the need for them to have a relationship with an invisible guy in the sky who watches over them etc.

 

[robnisch]

How is it not magical thinking if you believe you can say few prayers and all is fixed?

 

[Learner]

A free pass indeed. because magic is the counterfeit to doing miracles. Simply put...

...magic can't create life...nor re-animate the dead that physically consists of inanimate common materials.

Nor can miracles. Both are counterfeit; The sole difference is that you have been gulled by one and not the other, and the prohibitions against magic exist to protect that gullibility.

I disagree with your opinion. That's my honest opinion.

And you are here demonstrating that this propaganda sleight of hand is highly effective.

Although I disagree with your personal opinion, again. By the posts that I can see currently ( and oh my.. haven't you all been busy, recently?), my posts does seem to be effective by how they respond.

 

[southernhybrid]

A free pass indeed. because magic is the counterfeit to doing miracles. Simply put...

...magic can't create life...nor re-animate the dead that physically consists of inanimate common materials.

Nor can miracles. Both are counterfeit; The sole difference is that you have been gulled by one and not the other, and the prohibitions against magic exist to protect that gullibility.

I disagree with your opinion. That's my honest opinion.

And you are here demonstrating that this propaganda sleight of hand is highly effective.

Although I disagree with your personal opinion, again. By the posts that I can see currently ( and oh my.. haven't you all been busy, recently?), my posts does seem to be effective by how they respond.

I'm retired and I only do volunteer work one day a week, so I do have a lot of free time if I want to post here. But the truth is that I'm rarely here for more than about an hour a day. If you don't want to know what atheists think of religion, I do wonder why you spend so much time here. Do you think you're going to change our minds, when many if not most of us were raised in Christian homes and told what to believe? Of course, everyone is welcome to discuss these things but don't expect atheists to fall for beliefs that have no evidence to support them.

Btw, when I left Christianity around the age of 18, after attending an evangelical college for one semester, I told some church friends that we had been tricked into believing things that weren't true and one of them said back to me: "You think too much. Don't think so much about it". I will never forget that. I guess the answer to believing that Jesus was magic, and could perform miracles and save us from eternal torture, is not to think too much about the lack of evidence for these things. That way it will seem reasonable.

Btw, I was not an atheist when the above happened. I was a skeptic who was searching for the truth about religion and after about 7 more years of considering other religions, I eventually found the truth and it set me free from the magical thinking that it takes to believe that the supernatural is reality.

 

[TomC]

Btw, when I left Christianity around the age of 18, after attending an evangelical college for one semester, I told some church friends that we had been tricked into believing things that weren't true and one of them said back to me: "You think too much. Don't think so much about it". I will never forget that.

Here's something I find amusing about your experiences.
I had a similar, but opposite, experience. I grew up in a conservative Catholic family. I have two uncles who aren't just priests they were monsignors. I had 12 years of Catholic academy. I knew that those Protestants were going to hell.
They didn't believe that Jesus was God. That was obvious or they'd join Jesus' own Church, the RCC. Jesus started it! It's right there in the Gospel! They were just pretending, because everyone goes to church on Sunday.
But God knew who was a real Believer and who was faking it.
I was about 10 before I realized that those heretics believed in Jesus and the Bible and such, they weren't just faking it.
Tom

 

[bilby]

A free pass indeed. because magic is the counterfeit to doing miracles. Simply put...

...magic can't create life...nor re-animate the dead that physically consists of inanimate common materials.

Nor can miracles. Both are counterfeit; The sole difference is that you have been gulled by one and not the other, and the prohibitions against magic exist to protect that gullibility.

I disagree with your opinion. That's my honest opinion.

Yeah, but it's not just my opinion. It's the opinion of the entire body of human knowledge we call "science"; A body of knowledge that is both consistent and effective in a way that your contrary opinion utterly fails to be.

Science works; Prayer does not. That's not opinion, it's observation.

And you are here demonstrating that this propaganda sleight of hand is highly effective.

Although I disagree with your personal opinion, again.

And again, it's not mere opinion, nor is it personal - In stark contrast to your position. My position is based in actual study of reality, which has resulted in a corpus of knowledge that built the Internet on which you are arguing; Which has massively reduced famine; Which has cured most disease (and eradicated smallpox completely). Yours is based on feeling good about a book of bullshit, and on worshiping gods whose success in making the world a better place is exactly as impressive as you might expect from pure fiction.

Your effort to elevate your abject nonsense to an equal footing with knowledge, by declaring both to be "opinion", is as stupid as it is pathetic.

By the posts that I can see currently ( and oh my.. haven't you all been busy, recently?), my posts does seem to be effective by how they respond.

Nothing you post is effective, because it's nonsense based in nonsense. Reality exists, and magic and miracles are no part of it. Nor are gods. To claim otherwise is as intellectually honest and rigorous as to claim that the world is flat.

We now know better. Your medieval superstition is absurd in the twenty first century.

 

[DLH]

Yeah, but it's not just my opinion. It's the opinion of the entire body of human knowledge we call "science"; A body of knowledge that is both consistent and effective in a way that your contrary opinion utterly fails to be.

Science works; Prayer does not. That's not opinion, it's observation.

Everything you said there. Was wrong.

It is just your opinion, it has nothing to do with science, demonstrably, science is consistently wrong, that's why they call it science. Knowledge. Not opinion. Your claim of observation is a joke.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Yeah, but it's not just my opinion. It's the opinion of the entire body of human knowledge we call "science"; A body of knowledge that is both consistent and effective in a way that your contrary opinion utterly fails to be.

Science works; Prayer does not. That's not opinion, it's observation.

Everything you said there. Was wrong.

It is just your opinion, it has nothing to do with science, demonstrably, science is consistently wrong, that's why they call it science. Knowledge. Not opinion. Your claim of observation is a joke.

Can you name any theory (quantum theory, gravitational theory, germ theory, evolutionary theory) which has been overturned recently? Bet you can't.

 

[DLH]

Yeah, but it's not just my opinion. It's the opinion of the entire body of human knowledge we call "science"; A body of knowledge that is both consistent and effective in a way that your contrary opinion utterly fails to be.

Science works; Prayer does not. That's not opinion, it's observation.

Everything you said there. Was wrong.

It is just your opinion, it has nothing to do with science, demonstrably, science is consistently wrong, that's why they call it science. Knowledge. Not opinion. Your claim of observation is a joke.

Can you name any theory (quantum theory, gravitational theory, germ theory, evolutionary theory) which has been overturned recently? Bet you can't.

Well, I haven't seen any theory on the subject he was opining.

I don't have to. Science corrects itself, no? There's nothing wrong with that. My own personal theology does that. Otherwise we would be making science and theology into ideological fixations for our own pathetic agenda.

We wouldn't want that, oh no. Unless we were ignorant of theology and science. But there aren't any ignorant Christians or Atheists in the world we live in. We are men of science.

Ha.

 

[steve_bank]

Is DLH resorting to the old Christian attempts on the forum to equate religion and science? I can change my theology as science can change theory, therefore religion is not ideological?

Science is not an ideology or theology. In simple terms it t is a methodology. With objectively testable results. If I claim Earth's gravitational acceleration at sea level is 9.8 m/s^2 anyone on Earth can verify it.

Religion is faith in something unprovable, which is why it is called a faith not a science.

Science can address religious clams like Young Earth Cretinism, but can not be applied to proof or disprooff of existence of gods. Science deals with that which can be quantifiable measured.

 

[Learner]

God is the ultimate scientist.

Really? Where's the repeatability? Where's the peer review?

Peer review? Critical scholarly examinations at the level of humans i.e. Gods own creation? Not unless you mean more qualified peers at the God level like the Holy Spirit and Jesus.

Yeah so. what tools of technology would you be using for repeatable Godlike tests? - apart from noticing their are behaviour rules and predictions for every element on earth? An order to things

Gods are the antithesis of scientific. Monotheistic Gods even more so.

Christians who are also scientists have a different opinion.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Really? Where's the repeatability? Where's the peer review?

Peer review? Critical scholarly examinations at the level of humans i.e. Gods own creation? Not unless you mean more qualified peers at the God level like the Holy Spirit and Jesus.

Yeah so. what tools of technology would you be using for repeatable Godlike tests? - apart from noticing their are behaviour rules and predictions for every element on earth? An order to things

Gods are the antithesis of scientific. Monotheistic Gods even more so.

Christians who are also scientists have a different opinion.

They do have a different opinion. It's just a wrong opinion. About as wrong as Flat Earthism.

 

[unapologetic]

It is an unearned GIFT that is there for anyone to accept!

"gift" my ass. It is a protection racket. Pledge fealty to the god/father figure or be tortured forever.

my posts does seem to be effective by how they respond.

Effective, HOW? What are you trying to accomplish?

Which has cured most disease (and eradicated smallpox completely).

Until anti-vaxers (probably bible thumpers) brought it back.

Peer review? Critical scholarly examinations at the level of humans i.e. Gods own creation? Not unless you mean more qualified peers at the God level like the Holy Spirit and Jesus.

Yes, there are hundreds of other 'gods' (his peers) in circulation who say your god is a poser.
Since god and holy spirit are human inventions, even I am qualified to judge.

 

[unapologetic]

Conclusion: Your god fails at even a god level peer review.

 

[Learner]

Really? Where's the repeatability? Where's the peer review?

Peer review? Critical scholarly examinations at the level of humans i.e. Gods own creation? Not unless you mean more qualified peers at the God level like the Holy Spirit and Jesus.

Yeah so. what tools of technology would you be using for repeatable Godlike tests? - apart from noticing their are behaviour rules and predictions for every element on earth? An order to things

Gods are the antithesis of scientific. Monotheistic Gods even more so.

Christians who are also scientists have a different opinion.

They do have a different opinion. It's just a wrong opinion. About as wrong as Flat Earthism.

They have the same data and observe the same processes of materials mutually from a scientific pov. The difference here is: one side believes there is reason to believe there was an intentional 'push start'. The other side believes...(yes believes), it was just a lucky moment.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Really? Where's the repeatability? Where's the peer review?

Peer review? Critical scholarly examinations at the level of humans i.e. Gods own creation? Not unless you mean more qualified peers at the God level like the Holy Spirit and Jesus.

Yeah so. what tools of technology would you be using for repeatable Godlike tests? - apart from noticing their are behaviour rules and predictions for every element on earth? An order to things

Gods are the antithesis of scientific. Monotheistic Gods even more so.

Christians who are also scientists have a different opinion.

They do have a different opinion. It's just a wrong opinion. About as wrong as Flat Earthism.

They have the same data and observe the same processes of materials mutually from a scientific pov. The difference here is: one side believes there is reason to believe there was an intentional 'push start'. The other side believes...(yes believes), it was just a lucky moment.

They have the same data, which they interpret wrongly, and there are ways to check. The flat Earthers don't have a "different interpretation" either. They're just wrong.

 

[Learner]

It is an unearned GIFT that is there for anyone to accept!

"gift" my ass. It is a protection racket. Pledge fealty to the god/father figure or be tortured forever.

Read back on one or two of my posts which mentions ..even Hell is thrown in the Lake of fire and is burnt up forever.

The GIFT is free. You don't need to be in church to get it or be of any particular denomination.
This "racket" you speak of...is not Jesus' Christianity.

my posts does seem to be effective by how they respond.

Effective, HOW? What are you trying to accomplish?

I am responding to question...but do take a look at the title of he thread. It's an invitation, and it should tell you I've been invited.

Which has cured most disease (and eradicated smallpox completely).

Until anti-vaxers (probably bible thumpers) brought it back.

I know a few non-religious people who are anti-covid jab, but they're not necessarily anti vaxxers.

Oddly, to be a tad pedantic, and off topic. It's actually wrong to incorrectly label willy nilly someone as an anti-vaxxer... if they are still taking the vaccines for malaria, flu, pneumonia etc.& etc.

Peer review? Critical scholarly examinations at the level of humans i.e. Gods own creation? Not unless you mean more qualified peers at the God level like the Holy Spirit and Jesus.

Yes, there are hundreds of other 'gods' (his peers) in circulation who say your god is a poser.
Since god and holy spirit are human inventions, even I am qualified to judge

In your mind...yes you are. I don't need to debate that.

 

[Learner]

Really? Where's the repeatability? Where's the peer review?

Peer review? Critical scholarly examinations at the level of humans i.e. Gods own creation? Not unless you mean more qualified peers at the God level like the Holy Spirit and Jesus.

Yeah so. what tools of technology would you be using for repeatable Godlike tests? - apart from noticing their are behaviour rules and predictions for every element on earth? An order to things

Gods are the antithesis of scientific. Monotheistic Gods even more so.

Christians who are also scientists have a different opinion.

They do have a different opinion. It's just a wrong opinion. About as wrong as Flat Earthism.

They have the same data and observe the same processes of materials mutually from a scientific pov. The difference here is: one side believes there is reason to believe there was an intentional 'push start'. The other side believes...(yes believes), it was just a lucky moment.

They have the same data, which they interpret wrongly, and there are ways to check. The flat Earthers don't have a "different interpretation" either. They're just wrong.

They do not claim flat earth...but do please show me what the claims are.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Really? Where's the repeatability? Where's the peer review?

Peer review? Critical scholarly examinations at the level of humans i.e. Gods own creation? Not unless you mean more qualified peers at the God level like the Holy Spirit and Jesus.

Yeah so. what tools of technology would you be using for repeatable Godlike tests? - apart from noticing their are behaviour rules and predictions for every element on earth? An order to things

Gods are the antithesis of scientific. Monotheistic Gods even more so.

Christians who are also scientists have a different opinion.

They do have a different opinion. It's just a wrong opinion. About as wrong as Flat Earthism.

They have the same data and observe the same processes of materials mutually from a scientific pov. The difference here is: one side believes there is reason to believe there was an intentional 'push start'. The other side believes...(yes believes), it was just a lucky moment.

They have the same data, which they interpret wrongly, and there are ways to check. The flat Earthers don't have a "different interpretation" either. They're just wrong.

They do not claim flat earth...but do please show me what the claims are.

Sure they don't claim flat Earth, they just claim that the speed of light magically slowed down even though there's no evidence, that all star formation took only 6,000 years even though that's physically impossible, and that all geological processes magically took only 6,000 years to produce various structures, even though there's no evidence of that either, and no geological evidence of a global flood, nevermind the logistical impossibility of saving the animals on the Ark.

 

[steve_bank]

Learner
Christians who are also scientists have a different opinion.

B-B-B But ... science works no mater how you think about it. Science being a metacarpal model that predicts outcomes c of an experiential. When the jet you are on lifts off the groundd at the end of a takeoff roll tthatt is an experiment that tests the theories of aerodynamics. How you think about does not matter. Atheist, Christian, Hindu, Zoroastrian does not matter.

What I saw in engineering is that Christians commercialize science and religion.