The Mamdani Experiment In Socialism

[ZiprHead]

This is an experiment, not a coup.

I don't think Mamdani himself would call it an "experiment". He seems to think its a solution. If it is an experiment, its kind of a reckless one, given the consequences of failure, i.e. putting small local grocery stores and bodegas out of business and perhaps too discouraged and jaded to ever come back.

If those things were there in those neighborhoods Mamdani's stores wouldn't be necessary.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The ignorance is quite something else. People are aware of the Greater NYC area right? There is no shortage of people that commute to NYC to work who'd jump at being able to live locally instead of commuting from New Haven, CT. As far as Florida population growth...

A quick search on google AI refutes your article:
Yes, New Yorkers are moving to Florida in large numbers, with Florida remaining the top out-of-state destination for residents leaving New York. Tens of thousands of people make the cross-state move annually, contributing to a major shift in population and wealth

You replied to me with a Google AI? According to your "source", 1 in 6 NYC'ers that leave the city, go to Florida. The vast majority of the people leaving NYC aren't going to Florida.

Let's quote the article that is the main source, shall we.

While many critics expected wealthy New Yorkers to flee these sorts of policies, MovingPlace’s data instead shows that fewer high-income residents left after Mamdani’s primary win than before (a roughly 1% difference year-over-year).

So the wealthy are generally standing pat, it appears.

So if most of the NYC'ers aren't going to Florida, where are they going?

An aggregate of about 16% moved to:
Greater Philly Area
SW CT
DC
Upstate along Hudson
Allentown, PA (puts them in long reach of NYC or Philly)

Odd how that article doesn't say that NYC'ers are flocking a hundred miles from NYC. Congrats on falling for more click bait.

 

[laughing dog]

This is an experiment, not a coup.

I don't think Mamdani himself would call it an "experiment". He seems to think its a solution. If it is an experiment, its kind of a reckless one, given the consequences of failure, i.e. putting small local grocery stores and bodegas out of business and perhaps too discouraged and jaded to ever come back.

According to my Google search there are an estimated 5,600 grocery stores and 13,000 bodegas in NYC. It seems rather far fetched to imagine 5 stores (one in each borough) providing competition on the scale to have much effect on the market unless these are gigantic big big groceries.

 

[thebeave]

You also didn't say that you thought "children shouldn't be grounded up into a slurry and fed to the poor". I can only work with what you have said.

You DID say you thought what he was doing was "reckless" and that places would be put out of business. That implies you think this is a fait accompli, that is collaboration isn't possible.

I can only go by what Mamdani himself has said about his plans. At the moment, the local grocers aren't big fans of his idea (see link below) and Mamdani himself at this point is not being collaborative with them (see bold below). If/when he listens to their side of the story and modifies his plans to be more accomodating to their concerns, then we can discuss that here. But as it currently stands, yes I stand by my statement that its reckless kind of reckless.

Immigrant-led business group votes to sue NYC over Mamdani’s taxpayer-funded grocery stores, alleging unfair competition

An immigrant-led business group is gearing up to sue New York City over Mayor Zohran Mamdani’s controversial plan to open five taxpayer-funded supermarkets — claiming the $70 million project will create unfair competition for nearby stores, The Post has learned.

As the far-left mayor announced new details of his plan this week — including a 30% discount on basic items like produce, meat, milk, cheese and bread – the Multicultural Business Coalition’s board voted to file a lawsuit in the coming weeks to block the pricey initiative, the group’s chairman Frank Garcia told The Post.

“The mayor doesn’t seem to want to sit down with us,” Garcia said, adding that Mamdani “won’t be able to bully these lawyers we are going to bring in.”

 

[RVonse]

Congrats on falling for more click bait.

Google AI is certainly not click bait.

You might accuse google AI of hallucinating but click bait isn't relevant when the original inquiry posted above came from myself. Prior to this I have read many other sources agreeing that it is common knowledge at this point that people are relocating from NYC to Florida. What google AI reports agrees with this making it unclear whether google AI hallucinated or your article is in error.

But I would side with google on this since there are many more sources than just one article refuting your article. And a bad article seems more probable than an AI that hallucinated.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Congrats on falling for more click bait.

Google AI is certainly not click bait.

The article it cited was. Do you know how to research and what "sources" are?

You might accuse google AI of hallucinating but click bait isn't relevant when the original inquiry posted above came from myself. Prior to this I have read many other sources agreeing that it is common knowledge at this point that people are relocating from NYC to Florida. What google AI reports agrees with this making it unclear whether google AI hallucinated or your article is in error.

But I would side with google on this since there are many more sources than just one article refuting your article. And a bad article seems more probable than an AI that hallucinated.

I need to stop discussing things with the irrational. Did you even read my reply?

 

[TSwizzle]

And who said the 30% discounted food staples were not generally available at the local markets? That seems to be another thing you just made up, unless you can show otherwise.

That would be the part that being addressed with the markets in the first place, the "food deserts". As a note, I didn't invent that term.

"food deserts"? That area seems to be well serviced for grocery stores so I am not convinced this experiment is about "food deserts". Has Mamdani stated that this is what his experiment is about?

I'm not sure what the significance of holding other products in the city grocery store to market value is. If someone comes in to buy the meat at 30% off, they're likely going buy the non-discounted items they need there as well. Otherwise, its whole other shopping trip at another store. Why would would anyone do that?

Because they are walking. You think people down in Greenwich Village are hoping the A or C to get to Harlem to buy discounted steak?

For 30% off? It's very possible people will make the effort to go to Mamdani's store specifically to load up on cheap meat and produce. People do shop around. It's a pain in the ass but I shop at two stores just to save a few bucks.

BTW, I rarely buy steak these days. The price is crazy but if there's a store offering 30% off, I would go.

 

[RVonse]

Congrats on falling for more click bait.

Google AI is certainly not click bait.

The article it cited was. Do you know how to research and what "sources" are?

You might accuse google AI of hallucinating but click bait isn't relevant when the original inquiry posted above came from myself. Prior to this I have read many other sources agreeing that it is common knowledge at this point that people are relocating from NYC to Florida. What google AI reports agrees with this making it unclear whether google AI hallucinated or your article is in error.

But I would side with google on this since there are many more sources than just one article refuting your article. And a bad article seems more probable than an AI that hallucinated.

I need to stop discussing things with the irrational. Did you even read my reply?

I did not cite an article! I cited google AI! It is the same response you will get if you or anyone else types in "are people moving from NYC to Florida?".

Google AI does the rest. It looks up everything everywhere about the subject. And the response it gives is that people are indeed moving from NYC to Florida right now. Despite what the one article you cited says about it.

A reasonable person would conclude your article is wrong compared to all others that google AI can see.

 

[steve_bank]

In practcall not ideological or theoretical terms. Considering the history of politics and government this is headed for corruption.

Who will these private operators be?

The NYC government is starting a business with free rent, no taxes, and the capital investment to compete with for profit companies.

If it loses money the city will make up he difference? Raise taxes? It is all predicable.

It may be well intended, but it still has to function in the greater global economy, international supply chains for food. Canada, Central, and South America.

 

[Elixir]

In practcall not ideological or theoretical terms. Considering the history of politics and government this is headed for corruption.

Oooh I’m trembling in my boots!
Anyhow, why “head for” corruption when we can already be there and beyond, just by electing Republitards? They’re literally an edifice of corruption; no “heading for” or crystal ball predictions needed!

 

[steve_bank]

Elixir

Usually even when I don't agree with you I take you to be a rational thinker.

Except when you see the right as corrupt and the left not.

China while still the CCP has identified itself as socialist. Even with authoritarian control they had a serous pebble with corruption. In the 90s they were shooting people for it.

Here in Wa and Seattle a lot of money has been given to organizations in the interest of social warfare and nobody knows where the money went, how it was spent, and what if any benefit it had. The money created and feeds a bureaucracy.

When I was working I came to seethe economy as a living ecosystem that evolved. There is a kind of Newton's Laws to it. Everything has a causal contention. You can not tinker locally as Manama thinks he can do without unforeseen consequences.

Chia for al practical purposes is a for profit economy. All business has to be self sustaining. They have a rich class, but it is liited in scope and power.


Over here a trillionaire like Musk is absurd and dangerous. No one person should have that kind of civilian power.

There needs to be a structural change to the economy.

Mamdani's experiment IMO is likely to fail. Costs will go up. They will probably urn through the initial investment.

In happens in private business when there are unrealistic exect6aiojns and poor planning.

Planning a new grocery chain would take a few teas to properly plan. Estimating monthly operating costs. Food costs and supply chains.

 

[bilby]

I did not cite an article! I cited google AI!

Do you really not know what Google AI is, or what it does? And yet you confidently use it anyway??

You cited a Google summary of an article, and despite Google including a link to its source, you didn't even grasp the fact that you were citing that source.

You continually beclown yourself by demonstrating an abject and repeated failure to even know how to start to know stuff. And yet you imagine your opinions to be somehow equal to those of interlocutors who are at least slightly competent to find out about reality.

You should work on that. It's amazing how effective a life skill it is, to be able to discern reality from bullshit. I will warn you that doing so will, however, debar you from continuing to support Trump.

 

[steve_bank]

Given the price of beef a 30% discount is huge.

There would be long lines for beef. You might have trouble keeping up with demand for beef.

1. Do you require a NYC ID to use the sore and get the essentials discount?

2. Do you limit the amounts per week or month for discounted essentials?

3. How do you prevent cheap beef and fish being sold on a black market? Restaurants would be ine

 

[RVonse]

I did not cite an article! I cited google AI!

Do you really not know what Google AI is, or what it does? And yet you confidently use it anyway??

You cited a Google summary of an article, and despite Google including a link to its source, you didn't even grasp the fact that you were citing that source.

You continually beclown yourself by demonstrating an abject and repeated failure to even know how to start to know stuff. And yet you imagine your opinions to be somehow equal to those of interlocutors who are at least slightly competent to find out about reality.

You should work on that. It's amazing how effective a life skill it is, to be able to discern reality from bullshit. I will warn you that doing so will, however, debar you from continuing to support Trump.

The agent for google AI does far more than just pull up one article to reference my search! In the brief matter of seconds it easily pulls thousands of sources (just like it used to). But now in addition to what it used to do, it provides the AI summary of the search results.

And no, that does not mean google is infallible while one single article from Jimmy must be inaccurate. But we have collectively been using google on this board before AI was in existence and no one complained about someone citing from a google search as though that person had a bad life skill. Good grief!!! I've seen numerous other sources that support making Jimmy Higgins article highly suspect before I even bothered with the search.

So if you want to believe Jimmy's article over thousands of sources derived from a google search I got nothing else to add here.

 

[RVonse]

In practcall not ideological or theoretical terms. Considering the history of politics and government this is headed for corruption.

Who will these private operators be?

The NYC government is starting a business with free rent, no taxes, and the capital investment to compete with for profit companies.

If it loses money the city will make up he difference? Raise taxes? It is all predicable.

It may be well intended, but it still has to function in the greater global economy, international supply chains for food. Canada, Central, and South America.

I agree with you this is all highly predictable.

But I also agree with Jimmy to calm down and let em try it anyway. Lets just see what happens.

Because after they get started, people fleeing NYC will get so obvious that even Jimmy won't be able to find any article that says otherwise.

 

[Patooka]

Because after they get started, people fleeing NYC will get so obvious that even Jimmy won't be able to find any article that says otherwise.

I'll take "Statements that are definitely going to age like milk" for $100 please Alex.

the Trump tariffs were not supposed to work either. And his tariffs also constituted "an experiment". An experiment that worked so well that even Biden continued during his administration!

I don't remember Biden being so fucking stupid as to impose tariffs on an island that is solely populated by penguins. That's your definition of an experiment that works? Jesus Christ MAGA is trying to out dementia Dear Leader.

 

[Elixir]

Jesus Christ MAGA is trying to out dementia Dear Leader.

Consider that the MAGApologists on this board are probably the cream of the crop, and the fact that we are now in full Kakistocracy comes into stark relief.

 

[Derec]

If those things were there in those neighborhoods Mamdani's stores wouldn't be necessary.

What evidence is there that these Mamdani Marts are in any way necessary? See my post below for more details as to why I think not.

 

[Derec]

According to my Google search there are an estimated 5,600 grocery stores and 13,000 bodegas in NYC.

Exactly. It is hard to imagine there being any significant problem with food deserts in NYC. Your numbers translate to 18.6 full grocery stores per square mile and whopping 43 bodegas. That means that grocery stores are, on average, about 600 ft from each other, while bodegas are about 400 ft apart.
Thus, the only people who would have problems with access would be those with mobility issues, and Mamdani Marts do not help with that.

It seems rather far fetched to imagine 5 stores (one in each borough) providing competition on the scale to have much effect on the market unless these are gigantic big big groceries.

Five stores will also not make any measurable positive impact neither regarding access (which I have shown with your own numbers is not even an issue) nor the food budget of the average New Yorker.

So either these are pilot projects for a much more extensive rollout (at enormous cost to the taxpayers given the discounts he is promising) or else it's just a publicity stunt by Comrade Cardamom.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And who said the 30% discounted food staples were not generally available at the local markets? That seems to be another thing you just made up, unless you can show otherwise.

That would be the part that being addressed with the markets in the first place, the "food deserts". As a note, I didn't invent that term.

"food deserts"? That area seems to be well serviced for grocery stores so I am not convinced this experiment is about "food deserts". Has Mamdani stated that this is what his experiment is about?

Yes.

I'm not sure what the significance of holding other products in the city grocery store to market value is. If someone comes in to buy the meat at 30% off, they're likely going buy the non-discounted items they need there as well. Otherwise, its whole other shopping trip at another store. Why would would anyone do that?

Because they are walking. You think people down in Greenwich Village are hoping the A or C to get to Harlem to buy discounted steak?

For 30% off? It's very possible people will make the effort to go to Mamdani's store specifically to load up on cheap meat and produce. People do shop around. It's a pain in the ass but I shop at two stores just to save a few bucks.

Are the stores requiring you to ride the subway for 40 minutes and then walk 15 to 20 minutes... (each way) to save a few bucks?

BTW, I rarely buy steak these days. The price is crazy but if there's a store offering 30% off, I would go.

Says the person who isn't living in NYC / doesn't own a car.