How gays sound like

[thebeave]

Was it a shock when Liberace came out as gay? Not to me, but apparently some people were flabbergasted.

 

[steve_bank]

DrZ

In the OP tittle when it comes to speech by gay do you mean both gay men and lesbian women, or just gay men?

A derogatory for men is effeminate, for women dikes. Dike referring in part to masculine speech by women.

Over here gay can refer to both or specifically men.

Over here the current liberal politically correct inclusive term is LGBTQ+. Using the acronym in speech can be awkward, it doesn't flow. Easier to jjust say gay.

AI Overview
LGBTQ+ is an acronym that stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer or questioning. The plus sign represents additional sexual orientations and gender identities, such as intersex and asexual. It is an umbrella term used to describe people with diverse sexual orientations and gender identities.

 

[DrZoidberg]

DrZ

In the OP tittle when it comes to speech by gay do you mean both gay men and lesbian women, or just gay men?

A derogatory for men is effeminate, for women dikes. Dike referring in part to masculine speech by women.

Over here gay can refer to both or specifically men.

If someone thinks effimacy in a man is derogatory, they're just misogynists. It's not more complicated than that.
If a man hates gays, they're obviously fantasizing about getting reamed by cocks, are attracted to men and feel troubled about it. Obvoiusly.
The OP is about gay men, because the video is by and for gay men.

Over here the current liberal politically correct inclusive term is LGBTQ+. Using the acronym in speech can be awkward, it doesn't flow. Easier to jjust say gay.

AI Overview
LGBTQ+ is an acronym that stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer or questioning. The plus sign represents additional sexual orientations and gender identities, such as intersex and asexual. It is an umbrella term used to describe people with diverse sexual orientations and gender identities.

The gay community over here has swung completely to the other side. What used to be called stuff like "Terfs". Lesbians are sick of transwomen steamrolling their community and taking over (you know... the thing men often do which women are annoyed about, which is why women like having their own spaces). Gays and bis are sick of straight guys pretending to be bi in order to score pussy. It's a harder climate now. The time when queers would automatically embrace any weirdo because they're a misfit is over. The acronym today is routinely shorted to whatever sexualities the specific event caters to. The + is rare today. If you see a + today it's a sign put up by a gay "ally" who don't know any gays and who have nothing to do with the community.

USA has always been more woke. But I suspect the same shift in queer culture will happen over there... eventually.

 

[steve_bank]

OMG! Conflict, power struggles, bias, and prejudice in the gay community. Who would have ever thunk it. Goes to show gays are as human as the rest of us.

When I was growingup, 50s 60s, as an insult a hetero would call a hetero gay, queer, faggot. or effeminate. Nothing to do with misogyny.

If one guy wanted to provoke or pick a fight with a guy one way was to call him queer or a fag. Today hate speech laws and a cultural shift towards gay rights have diminished it.

Back in the 80s when I was in Portland a gay sports club made the news when it would not admit bisexuals.

 

[DrZoidberg]

OMG! Conflict, power struggles, bias, and prejudice in the gay community. Who would have ever thunk it. Goes to show gays are as human as the rest of us.

It's not bias and prejudice. It's gays taking a hard long look at who they are, what they want and who they want to hang out with. That's a healthy development imho.

You're not a horrible person because you want to exclude people you can't or don't want to relate to. That's showing self love and self compassion.

Yes, gays are humans, like the rest of us. And like the rest of us, should be working on loving themselves, as well as the world.

When I was growingup, 50s 60s, as an insult a hetero would call a hetero gay, queer, faggot. or effeminate. Nothing to do with misogyny.

If one guy wanted to provoke or pick a fight with a guy one way was to call him queer or a fag. Today hate speech laws and a cultural shift towards gay rights have diminished it.

Back in the 80s when I was in Portland a gay sports club made the news when it would not admit bisexuals.

Yes it was. And now it's not. The gay rights movement won. They have conquered the west. That struggle has now moved into the developing world. There the fight is important. But here the fight is over.

Being different means being a minority. It means living in a world that isn't designed to cater to your specific needs. That will never change. Gays just need to learn to live with that. If they don't straights will (and should) find them obnoxious and self entitled. Woke is dead today. So this is the world now. The gays without blue hair and a thousand piercings in the face, are cool with it and are busy enjoying life, rather than continuing to fight a war.... they long ago won.

I got my finger very close to the pulse on this one since my girlfriend is a lesbian actvist, and used to be, very much, central to the Swedish gay rights movement. Many of our friends are at the current core of the Swedish gay rights movement. Over the last five years the vibe has turned dramatically.

 

[aupmanyav]

Thanks, we moved away for a few seconds from Trump and Iran War in the forum.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I should modify this a little. Gay rights in Scandinavia is today working for gay acceptance among Muslim immigrants. That's a massive problem here. Muslims in general are about as gay friendly as Adolf Hitler. Since 2015 Sweden has a lot of Afghan refugees. And their view on homosexuality is horriffic. Its especially rough for ethnic Afghan lesbians. So there is still work to be done over here

 

[Elixir]

Muslims in general are about as gay friendly as Adolf Hitler.

Are you saying Muslims are gay?
I don’t know, but would surmise that Muslims’ sexual preferences are not one bit different from those of any other group of 2 billion people.

 

[steve_bank]

In the 80s I knew an engineer who spent time working in Pakistan and the Arab oil states. He said homosexuality was an open secret.

He also said some of it had to do with strict separation of unmarried men and women.

AI Overview
Yes, homosexuality functions largely as an open secret in major Saudi cities, where underground social and digital networks exist, but it remains heavily suppressed. While consensual same-sex acts are strictly illegal under traditional interpretations of Sharia law—with potential punishments including imprisonment, flogging, or death—enforcement can be arbitrary or discreet.

To me Christians, Jews, and Muslims are the same. They all range from liberal, to moderate. to conservative. to wacky extremes. In all three groups views on homosexuality depends on the individual.

Jewish Israel led the USA on gay rights.

It is looking more and more like DrZ is deeply opinionated and biased. Prejudiced and maybe racist. ..

 

[DrZoidberg]

In the 80s I knew an engineer who spent time working in Pakistan and the Arab oil states. He said homosexuality was an open secret.

He also said some of it had to do with strict separation of unmarried men and women.

AI Overview
Yes, homosexuality functions largely as an open secret in major Saudi cities, where underground social and digital networks exist, but it remains heavily suppressed. While consensual same-sex acts are strictly illegal under traditional interpretations of Sharia law—with potential punishments including imprisonment, flogging, or death—enforcement can be arbitrary or discreet.

To me Christians, Jews, and Muslims are the same. They all range from liberal, to moderate. to conservative. to wacky extremes. In all three groups views on homosexuality depends on the individual.

To you. I'm guessing you're not homosexual having grown up in a Muslim family?

Fun fact. In 1998 EuroPride was hosted in Stockholm. I was invited to the gala dinner and randomly ended up at the same table as the Saudi delegation. I asked them about being gay in Saudi Arabia. They said it was no problem. That there was gay clubs. And as long as you were discreet, you could just live your best gay life.

That's what they said. I suspect that may be true if you're rich and a man.

I also met one of the heroes of the early Swedish gay rights movement and he said it was better before gay rights. Because when it was shameful to be gay and hidden he found it easier to score hot young guys. A comment I didn't quite know how to respond to. There's all sorts out there.

Jewish Israel led the USA on gay rights.

It is looking more and more like DrZ is deeply opinionated and biased. Prejudiced and maybe racist. ..

ha ha ha. Is it really opposite Tuesday?

You are correct about one thing. The core region of honour killings is around the Zagros mountains and the Hindu Kush. This is the epicentre of the most fucked up culture of social control over women. And that culture is not restricted to Islam. It cuts across every religion in that region. And when these guys emigrate to the west, they do bring that culture with them.

But most of them are Muslim. So it is accurate to associate it primarily with Islam.

If you don't believe me I encourage you to google "honour killings in the west". It's an absolutely bizarre culture.

 

[steve_bank]

Why are you focusing on Muslims?

Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists as well can all be extremity conservative when it comes to sexuality.

This is pretty much a liberal secular pro gay forum, but I expect there are anti gay atheists out there.

From what I read going back to old civilizations prohibitions on homosexuality varied.

I am not gay, but I witnessed the rise of gay rights and 'coming out of the closet'. American Christianity has been rapid anti gay. Some of our Christian politicians have gone to Africa to support extreme anti homosexual regiems.s

It may be Uganda where a parent can get into trouble for not reporting a gay kid.

Butt hen there are liberal Christians and congregations who have gay minsters. Perform gay marria

So, it comes down to the individuals.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Why are you focusing on Muslims?

Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists as well can all be extremity conservative when it comes to sexuality.

There's not an epidemic of Jews, Christians, Hindus and Buddhists in Scandinavia murdering their lesbian and gay family members when they refuse the arranged marriages their families set up.

Jews and Hindus can coercive. But those groups, in Scandinavia, aren't violent. Christian coercian is only violent if those Christians have emigrated from the North edge of the Middle-East.

This isn't theoretical. These families are essentially terror networks focused on terrorising their gay family members into obedience and living closeted. Or death.

Do you understand now?

This is pretty much a liberal secular pro gay forum, but I expect there are anti gay atheists out there.

From what I read going back to old civilizations prohibitions on homosexuality varied.

I am not gay, but I witnessed the rise of gay rights and 'coming out of the closet'. American Christianity has been rapid anti gay. Some of our Christian politicians have gone to Africa to support extreme anti homosexual regiems.s

It may be Uganda where a parent can get into trouble for not reporting a gay kid.

Butt hen there are liberal Christians and congregations who have gay minsters. Perform gay marria

So, it comes down to the individuals.

I think its really simple. In the agrarian world, your children was your only support in old age and sickness. Having as many children as possible wasn't just desireable, but necessary. Gay children are unlikely to have children.

Culture evolves slowly. The longer time an economy has had industrialisation and free market capitalism, the more gay friendly, liberal and tolerant it is.

The developing world, for obvious reasons, are lagging behind in this cultural evolution.

Culture becomes whatever it needs to be. But evolves slower than technology, social or economical innovations. Its not a question of evil. Its a question of an obsolete culture trying to fix an obsolete problem

 

[DrZoidberg]

I think its important to acknowledge that in the agrarian paradigm Muslim culturr was superior to Christian culture. They were richer and more culturally advanced than us.

A culture that has been superior for a thousand years is so entrenched, its going to require more time and effort to change. That's why China and India are so weird, compared to the rest of the world.

Islam used to be superior (ie more functional), but now its an inferior, obsolete and a maladaptive culture. It'll obviously change over time. Bad ideas always go away sooner or later, either with a whimper or a bang. But it will happen.

Whether it'll keep calling itself Islam is irrelevant. It will either change or die. But the content of the culture will change. I'm 100% sure of that. Because its so fucking useless today, and can't build anything of value (that secularists can't do better)

 

[steve_bank]

DrZ

More of your opinionated drivel and nonsense? I don't consider myself all that well read compared to others, but you are just pain ignorant.

You are not answering my points. You single out being gay in a Muslim family, I point out that most religions range from liberal to moderate to conservative to extreme.

Until support for gay rights over here being gay in a Christian family could be very difficult. Coming out as gay in the day could cause you severe social problems and end a job career. It could get you physically beaten by those loving Christians. I remember a bumper sticker 'god hates fags'.

Bumper stickers featuring hateful slogans like "God hates [slur]" are most famously associated with the Westboro Baptist Church, an extremist group known for anti-LGBTQ+ protests. These messages are widely condemned as hate speech. In response, counter-stickers and inclusive messages such as "God loves everyone" are common on Etsy.

You will get nowhere with me arguing any kind of superiority of Christianity. While European Chriastains was dumping slop in the streets Arabs had clean cities and hospitals.

Throughout history science and math has always followed the money. Before the rise of Europe Persia and Arabia was the place to be for sconce. As they declined it passed to Christian Europe. Newton used Persian astronomical data and the general principles of his mechanics existed in pint in Arabia.

As to agrarian and Christian aka Catholic, Europe it was based in feudalism. European Christianity for the masses was keeping the peasants ignorant and in line through fear.

European serfdom was neither standard chattel slavery nor "chattel serfdom." Instead, it was a unique feudal system where peasants were legally bound to a specific plot of land and the lord who owned it, rather than being treated as moveable personal property (chattel) that could be bought and sold independently.

 

[DrZoidberg]

DrZ

More of your opinionated drivel and nonsense? I don't consider myself all that well read compared to others, but you are just pain ignorant.

You are not answering my points. You single out being gay in a Muslim family, I point out that most religions range from liberal to moderate to conservative to extreme.

Until support for gay rights over here being gay in a Christian family could be very difficult. Coming out as gay in the day could cause you severe social problems and end a job career. It could get you physically beaten by those loving Christians. I remember a bumper sticker 'god hates fags'.

So what? What has that got to do with anything I have said? I'm talking about Scandinavia specifically. Which is the only thing I have talked about. I know the activists who lead the groups protecting gays. I know the people running the womens shelters protecting women. The Scandinavian conservative Christians can be mean and annoying. But only Muslims are physically dangerous. Again... Scandinavia.

Scandinavia is a gay friendly culture, to the extreme. Probably the most gay friendly culture on the planet. Only tiny bizarre Christian sects have an issue with gays, and they're not dangerous. Nor have any influence. Mainstream Christianity is super gay friendly. Super super gay friendly. We have plenty of gay priests. In a country where 90% strongly identify as atheist. Atheists are, unsurprisingly, gay friendly

The only big threat to gays in Sweden are Muslims. That's not opinion. That's a fact. And playing that down is dangerous to do. Because it hurts gays. I personally think we should protect minorities. Sometimes we need to protect them from other minorities. Denmark and Norway has less problems, because they've had more restrictive immigration

You will get nowhere with me arguing any kind of superiority of Christianity. While European Chriastains was dumping slop in the streets Arabs had clean cities and hospitals.

Yeah. And then industrialisation happened.

Throughout history science and math has always followed the money. Before the rise of Europe Persia and Arabia was the place to be for sconce. As they declined it passed to Christian Europe. Newton used Persian astronomical data and the general principles of his mechanics existed in pint in Arabia.

Yeah. You're just saying the same as me with different words.

As to agrarian and Christian aka Catholic, Europe it was based in feudalism. European Christianity for the masses was keeping the peasants ignorant and in line through fear.

Yeah. I won't argue that. I'm still right

 

[Politesse]

Well gosh... you didn't say you had anecdotal evidence. That clinches it!

That is usually the only kind of evidence this forum is inclined to acknowledge... gurl?

It's funny that people are appealing to the existence of the stereotype as though the mere existence of it proves the more extravagant claims about gay sociolects. No one denies that there IS a gay-coded mode of speech, you only need to watch an hour of network television or take a stroll down Christopher Street to hear it in action. But that it exists is not the most interesting question about it.

 

[Politesse]

The only big threat to gays in Sweden are Muslims. That's not opinion. That's a fact. And playing that down is dangerous to do. Because it hurts gays. I personally think we should protect minorities. Sometimes we need to protect them from other minorities. Denmark and Norway has less problems, because they've had more restrictive immigration

Pitting two despised minorities against each other does not make people safer in the long term. Rather, it sets up what we call a "Red Stick War" in the US-- reference being to a historical conflict where the US Government cheerfully egged on both sides of a civil war within the Creek/Muskogee nations, then when it it was over, took all of their land for themselves, framing their own theft as just punishment for the losers and just payment for their help to the winners. LGBTQ people are well-advised to befriend other peoples on the far-right dart board even if there severe ideological divides between them. At the end of the day, increased contact and a sense of common cause are wearing down those barriers, whereas falling for right-wing rhetoric and letting themselves be turned into weapons of state guarantees nothing but continued dispossession. You are not very aware of the real situation of either of the groups in question, if you think that either is culturally homogenous. Not even in Sweden do all gays sound the same, or all Muslims believe the same things about the implications of Tawheed.

 

[steve_bank]

till don't know what Christian agriculture superior to Muslim agriculture means.

I have heard Christians who seem to think science was invented in Europe by white Christians.

That the Industrial Revolution occurred in Christian North America and Europe does not infer a causal link between the Christian religion and industrialization. Inventoin is an inherent human characteristic, and it exists in non human species.

You can go back to the ancient Chinese who can be said to have had the first large scale industrialization. Basic mechanical mechanisms of 19th century industrialization go far back in history to Arabia and other historical lines.

Mayans and incas in the Americas had impressive engineered mountain terrace agriculture and sophisticated irrigation. Superb civil engineers.

Muslims get attention in the media for being anti gay. But it is still strong here in the USA by Christians as far as I can tell.

A few years ago a conservative anti gay Christian band applied for and was given a permit to hold a concert in a park in the middle of Seattle's gay community.


Not like it once was, there are still hate crimes against gays. Back in the 90s in progressive Seattle there was a group of young men going around assaulting gays on the street.

 

[ZiprHead]

It is looking more and more like DrZ is deeply opinionated and biased. Prejudiced and maybe racist. ..

A big sign is someone that uses woke in a derogatory way.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Pitting two despised minorities against each other does not make people safer in the long term. Rather, it sets up what we call a "Red Stick War" in the US-- reference being to a historical conflict where the US Government cheerfully egged on both sides of a civil war within the Creek/Muskogee nations, then when it it was over, took all of their land for themselves, framing their own theft as just punishment for the losers and just payment for their help to the winners. LGBTQ people are well-advised to befriend other peoples on the far-right dart board even if there severe ideological divides between them. At the end of the day, increased contact and a sense of common cause are wearing down those barriers, whereas falling for right-wing rhetoric and letting themselves be turned into weapons of state guarantees nothing but continued dispossession. You are not very aware of the real situation of either of the groups in question, if you think that either is culturally homogenous.

Wtf is wrong with you? No gays have murdered any Muslims in Sweden. At least not as a systematic act to terrorise other Muslims into submission.

I'm going to assume your pc knee jerk reaction kicked in before you engaged your brain. If not you are truly a morally devoid and despicable person

Not even in Sweden do all gays sound the same,

Nobody has said that. Straw man

or all Muslims believe the same things about the implications of Tawheed.

Nobody has said this either. Straw man


Next time, please try to put some effort in. I think this must rank as your laziest response on this forum.