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How should west respond to Russian invasion of Ukraine?
- Thread starter Harry Bosch
- Start date
Yes, Russia's survival is indeed at stake. To survive, you'd better get out of Ukraine and implement actual working liberal democracy.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Here's food for thought. What if the war in Ukraine was never about trying to conquer it. What if the goal for Putin, all along, was a more complete grip on power in Russia? If that was his mission he's super duper succeeded. Actually trying to conquer Ukraine, might have been more of a side show.
A friend, who knows more about military and geopolitics, explained that geopolitically for Russia, this war is suicide. It was right from the start. But if Putin doesn't care about Russia, then it's not a problem. If all he cares about is his personal power in Russia, then it might be going great for him.
What about that theory?
www.bbc.com
A friend, who knows more about military and geopolitics, explained that geopolitically for Russia, this war is suicide. It was right from the start. But if Putin doesn't care about Russia, then it's not a problem. If all he cares about is his personal power in Russia, then it might be going great for him.
What about that theory?
Muratov: Putin can no longer claim victory in Ukraine
In an exclusive interview with the BBC’s Steve Rosenberg, Dmitry Muratov says the Kremlin leader can only "destroy Ukraine, not conquer it", with the war now in its fifth year.
www.bbc.com
barbos
Contributor
Handling and bombing are two very different things.
TV and credit cards
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It’s spin Dr Z. What if Trump’s attack on Iran was only about propping up the price of oil to help his handler Putin, doesn’t care what us and the rest of the world has to pay for gas or if the strait ever opens up again.
barbos
Contributor
You started this war, not Putin.Here's food for thought. What if the war in Ukraine was never about trying to conquer it. What if the goal for Putin, all along, was a more complete grip on power in Russia? If that was his mission he's super duper succeeded. Actually trying to conquer Ukraine, might have been more of a side show.
A friend, who knows more about military and geopolitics, explained that geopolitically for Russia, this war is suicide. It was right from the start. But if Putin doesn't care about Russia, then it's not a problem. If all he cares about is his personal power in Russia, then it might be going great for him.
What about that theory?
Muratov: Putin can no longer claim victory in Ukraine
In an exclusive interview with the BBC’s Steve Rosenberg, Dmitry Muratov says the Kremlin leader can only "destroy Ukraine, not conquer it", with the war now in its fifth year.
So you need not worry yourself whith theories about Putin's goals.
You started this war, not Putin.Here's food for thought. What if the war in Ukraine was never about trying to conquer it. What if the goal for Putin, all along, was a more complete grip on power in Russia? If that was his mission he's super duper succeeded. Actually trying to conquer Ukraine, might have been more of a side show.
A friend, who knows more about military and geopolitics, explained that geopolitically for Russia, this war is suicide. It was right from the start. But if Putin doesn't care about Russia, then it's not a problem. If all he cares about is his personal power in Russia, then it might be going great for him.
What about that theory?
Muratov: Putin can no longer claim victory in Ukraine
In an exclusive interview with the BBC’s Steve Rosenberg, Dmitry Muratov says the Kremlin leader can only "destroy Ukraine, not conquer it", with the war now in its fifth year.
So you need not worry yourself whith theories about Putin's goals.
No, it was definitely Russia ruled by Vladimir Putin who started this war, motivated by irredentism.
barbos
Contributor
nope, that's not what happened.
barbos
Contributor
Nope, it was definitely the West who ordered Elensky to go to war with Russia instead of agreeing on extremely favorable terms Putin offered.You started this war, not Putin.Here's food for thought. What if the war in Ukraine was never about trying to conquer it. What if the goal for Putin, all along, was a more complete grip on power in Russia? If that was his mission he's super duper succeeded. Actually trying to conquer Ukraine, might have been more of a side show.
A friend, who knows more about military and geopolitics, explained that geopolitically for Russia, this war is suicide. It was right from the start. But if Putin doesn't care about Russia, then it's not a problem. If all he cares about is his personal power in Russia, then it might be going great for him.
What about that theory?
Muratov: Putin can no longer claim victory in Ukraine
In an exclusive interview with the BBC’s Steve Rosenberg, Dmitry Muratov says the Kremlin leader can only "destroy Ukraine, not conquer it", with the war now in its fifth year.
So you need not worry yourself whith theories about Putin's goals.
No, it was definitely Russia ruled by Vladimir Putin who started this war, motivated by irredentism.
barbos
Contributor
Here's food for thought. What if the war in Ukraine was never about trying to conquer it. What if the goal for Putin, all along, was a more complete grip on power in Russia? If that was his mission he's super duper succeeded. Actually trying to conquer Ukraine, might have been more of a side show.
A friend, who knows more about military and geopolitics, explained that geopolitically for Russia, this war is suicide. It was right from the start. But if Putin doesn't care about Russia, then it's not a problem. If all he cares about is his personal power in Russia, then it might be going great for him.
What about that theory?
Muratov: Putin can no longer claim victory in Ukraine
In an exclusive interview with the BBC’s Steve Rosenberg, Dmitry Muratov says the Kremlin leader can only "destroy Ukraine, not conquer it", with the war now in its fifth year.
No, and these two goals are not mutually exclusive. He wanted to be regarded as the great restorer of the Russian empire, and that would have cemented his status as a great leader.
Arguably, he did not even succeeded in securing his position. It is far less certain now than it was before the invasion.
Like Hitler, he did not think that he would start a long-term war. The "Special Military Operation" was not just propaganda, it was what he expected to happen: a lighting strike, fighting over in a few days, mopping up takes a few weeks, troops home in six months. The Russian military was actually sceptical, but his FSB cronies had assured him that Ukrainians would welcome the liberating brothers.
Nope, it was definitely the West who ordered Elensky to go to war with Russia instead of agreeing on extremely favorable terms Putin offered.You started this war, not Putin.Here's food for thought. What if the war in Ukraine was never about trying to conquer it. What if the goal for Putin, all along, was a more complete grip on power in Russia? If that was his mission he's super duper succeeded. Actually trying to conquer Ukraine, might have been more of a side show.
A friend, who knows more about military and geopolitics, explained that geopolitically for Russia, this war is suicide. It was right from the start. But if Putin doesn't care about Russia, then it's not a problem. If all he cares about is his personal power in Russia, then it might be going great for him.
What about that theory?
Muratov: Putin can no longer claim victory in Ukraine
In an exclusive interview with the BBC’s Steve Rosenberg, Dmitry Muratov says the Kremlin leader can only "destroy Ukraine, not conquer it", with the war now in its fifth year.
So you need not worry yourself whith theories about Putin's goals.
No, it was definitely Russia ruled by Vladimir Putin who started this war, motivated by irredentism.
No, it was the Russian army that invaded Ukraine, not the other way around.
Calling Putin's terms "extremely favourable" is...well, they were extremely favourable for Putin, not Ukraine.
barbos
Contributor
Ukraine is a fascist state paid by the west. You pay Criminal Junta in Kiev to terrorize their own population first in order to terrorize Russian one second.
This is actually unprecedented achievement for Ukraine. throught its modern and not so modern history it had very weak rulers. This clown achieved dictatorship for the first time. Key to this achievement is corruption. You literally pay these scumbugs to keep the war going.
This is actually unprecedented achievement for Ukraine. throught its modern and not so modern history it had very weak rulers. This clown achieved dictatorship for the first time. Key to this achievement is corruption. You literally pay these scumbugs to keep the war going.
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barbos
Contributor
Dude, we said we are leaving if you agree to give Eastern Ukraine Autonomy.
The west said "no, we want war"
Also, the pope is a radical protestant, and the bears have luxurious indoor toilets.
barbos
Contributor
Therms were extremely favourable for both sides, that's why ukrainian side agreed to them.Nope, it was definitely the West who ordered Elensky to go to war with Russia instead of agreeing on extremely favorable terms Putin offered.You started this war, not Putin.Here's food for thought. What if the war in Ukraine was never about trying to conquer it. What if the goal for Putin, all along, was a more complete grip on power in Russia? If that was his mission he's super duper succeeded. Actually trying to conquer Ukraine, might have been more of a side show.
A friend, who knows more about military and geopolitics, explained that geopolitically for Russia, this war is suicide. It was right from the start. But if Putin doesn't care about Russia, then it's not a problem. If all he cares about is his personal power in Russia, then it might be going great for him.
What about that theory?
Muratov: Putin can no longer claim victory in Ukraine
In an exclusive interview with the BBC’s Steve Rosenberg, Dmitry Muratov says the Kremlin leader can only "destroy Ukraine, not conquer it", with the war now in its fifth year.
So you need not worry yourself whith theories about Putin's goals.
No, it was definitely Russia ruled by Vladimir Putin who started this war, motivated by irredentism.
No, it was the Russian army that invaded Ukraine, not the other way around.
Calling Putin's terms "extremely favourable" is...well, they were extremely favourable for Putin, not Ukraine.
First, you had no business being in Ukraine in the first place. Whether a part of Ukraine has autonomy is an internal matter for the sovereign state of Ukraine.
Second, the actual maximalist terms Russia offered and what you claim bear very little overlap.
Third, Russia was not going to leave, at least the eastern parts and Crimea, no matter what Ukraine did.
Fourth. It was the Ukrainians who decided to fight for their indpendence. There was no way the west could have forced them.
Ukrainians never agreed them, and agreed even less after they learned about the brotherly love you showed to the Ukrainians at Bucha.Therms were extremely favourable for both sides, that's why ukrainian side agreed to them.Nope, it was definitely the West who ordered Elensky to go to war with Russia instead of agreeing on extremely favorable terms Putin offered.You started this war, not Putin.Here's food for thought. What if the war in Ukraine was never about trying to conquer it. What if the goal for Putin, all along, was a more complete grip on power in Russia? If that was his mission he's super duper succeeded. Actually trying to conquer Ukraine, might have been more of a side show.
A friend, who knows more about military and geopolitics, explained that geopolitically for Russia, this war is suicide. It was right from the start. But if Putin doesn't care about Russia, then it's not a problem. If all he cares about is his personal power in Russia, then it might be going great for him.
What about that theory?
Muratov: Putin can no longer claim victory in Ukraine
In an exclusive interview with the BBC’s Steve Rosenberg, Dmitry Muratov says the Kremlin leader can only "destroy Ukraine, not conquer it", with the war now in its fifth year.
So you need not worry yourself whith theories about Putin's goals.
No, it was definitely Russia ruled by Vladimir Putin who started this war, motivated by irredentism.
No, it was the Russian army that invaded Ukraine, not the other way around.
Calling Putin's terms "extremely favourable" is...well, they were extremely favourable for Putin, not Ukraine.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
The difference being that USA's presidency is a go on the merry-go-round while Putin is a king in a kingdom building a dynasty.
Harry Bosch
Contributor
ha ha! Yes, your side will "leave" if Ukraine gives up its defensive positions; then drops its army to 50,000; then excludes all foreigners from its company; then dearms; pay reparations to Russia; and then hope that Russia doesn't reinvade again! What a deal!