Fully tax supported public colleges and universities.

[ksen]

Didn't think it was that important. Doesn't haven't to be Harvard. Just choose any of the state schools in your state.

You should probably show where any of us are actually arguing everyone should be sent to the same school or that everyone should go to university first.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

or we could go the other direction and shut it all down.

why stop at any state school, lets choose all publicly funded institutions of learning from Headstart on up. Shut them down. Public libraries, museums, parks. Close them up. Invest not a single solitary dime in the intellectual growth, stimulation or competency of the citizenry.

Why not do that?

If the goal was to minimize education we'd shut all that stuff down and ban private schools too.

But I don't think anyone is arguing that we want to minimize education.

Well, except Boko Haram.

and some one was arguing that everyone go to Harvard?

 

[ksen]

or we could go the other direction and shut it all down.

why stop at any state school, lets choose all publicly funded institutions of learning from Headstart on up. Shut them down. Public libraries, museums, parks. Close them up. Invest not a single solitary dime in the intellectual growth, stimulation or competency of the citizenry.

Why not do that?

So the argument becomes where in the spectrum we stop paying for education. Though your argument of getting rid of the state in education would make sense too, and make it a parent responsibility.

Man, if only there were real life examples of modern, industrialized nations that provide public funding of higher education whose systems we could study to see what works well and what doesn't.

Instead we have to just rely on winging it here on an internet discussion board.

 

[laughing dog]

As usual, you continue to miss the point - education whether it is mathematics or chemistry or anthropology or sociology or art - makes people better able to make informed decisions which makes for better citizens.

Medicine, Engineering, Law, Fine Art... its really all the same to you?

An education is an education. Helping someone elevate their skills and knowledge in a recognized discipline is good for them and for everyone.

So long as people get an education in SOMETHING, we should pay for it? Doesn't matter what it is? Do you support public funding of classes on playing video games and on the philosophy of belly lint?

If someone could offer a rigorous education in playing video or the philosophy of belly lint, I'd say yes.

 

[dismal]

If the goal was to minimize education we'd shut all that stuff down and ban private schools too.

But I don't think anyone is arguing that we want to minimize education.

Well, except Boko Haram.

and some one was arguing that everyone go to Harvard?

Well, I was, if the goal is to maximize everyone's education.

But the point was not so much that everyone need go to Harvard specifically but to some ultra-elite University for which I used Harvard as a proxy.

Surely you would agree that quality matters, and education cannot be maximized at Southern New Hampshire University?

 

[coloradoatheist]

Didn't think it was that important. Doesn't haven't to be Harvard. Just choose any of the state schools in your state.

You should probably show where any of us are actually arguing everyone should be sent to the same school or that everyone should go to university first.

But you haven't made a case for why we should have everyone go to college. What level of education should we pay for and why college? Should we as a society pay for someone to study 13th century Italian art?

 

[ksen]

You should probably show where any of us are actually arguing everyone should be sent to the same school or that everyone should go to university first.

But you haven't made a case for why we should have everyone go to college. What level of education should we pay for and why college? Should we as a society pay for someone to study 13th century Italian art?

Probably because I don't think, and no one else has argued, that everyone should go to college.

 

[dismal]

But you haven't made a case for why we should have everyone go to college. What level of education should we pay for and why college? Should we as a society pay for someone to study 13th century Italian art?

Probably because I don't think, and no one else has argued, that everyone should go to college.

Why shouldn't we force people to go like we force people to go to school when they are young?

They have no right to cheat society do they?

I sense a lack of commitment to this need to have everyone educated maximally.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

and some one was arguing that everyone go to Harvard?

Well, I was, if the goal is to maximize everyone's education.

and what proof do you have that Harvard, while a good school, would maximize everyone's education? People learn different things in different ways. And I have already stated my interest in learning through apprenticeship. A person who does best learning in a one on one environment would get the most from an apprenticeship but may struggle and never fully grasp the material if taught in an auditorium with 150 other freshman.

But the point was not so much that everyone need go to Harvard specifically but to some ultra-elite University for which I used Harvard as a proxy.

Surely you would agree that quality matters, and education cannot be maximized at Southern New Hampshire University?

i don't know enough about Southern NH to say Or its faculty or the particular student applying to say one way or the other.

 

[Toni]

You should probably show where any of us are actually arguing everyone should be sent to the same school or that everyone should go to university first.

But you haven't made a case for why we should have everyone go to college. What level of education should we pay for and why college? Should we as a society pay for someone to study 13th century Italian art?

Why shouldn't we?

 

[dismal]

Well, I was, if the goal is to maximize everyone's education.

and what proof do you have that Harvard, while a good school, would maximize everyone's education? People learn different things in different ways. And I have already stated my interest in learning through apprenticeship. A person who does best learning in a one on one environment would get the most from an apprenticeship but may struggle and never fully grasp the material if taught in an auditorium with 150 other freshman.

But the point was not so much that everyone need go to Harvard specifically but to some ultra-elite University for which I used Harvard as a proxy.

Surely you would agree that quality matters, and education cannot be maximized at Southern New Hampshire University?

i don't know enough about Southern NH to say Or its faculty or the particular student applying to say one way or the other.

What reason do you have to think that Southern NH University is likely to be as good at educating people as Harvard or other recognized elite universities?

It seems you are just in avoidance mode again.

Maybe you should take some time to think about what you really want to advocate and why and then you can respond to questions about it honestly without all the bobbing and weaving.

The point I am making is not about Harvard or SNHU specifically but that if we want to maximize everyone's education we must give everyone an elite education for life. The intent was not to have a nitpick fest about Harvard.

Do you support giving everyone an elite education for life or not?

 

[coloradoatheist]

But you haven't made a case for why we should have everyone go to college. What level of education should we pay for and why college? Should we as a society pay for someone to study 13th century Italian art?

Why shouldn't we?

i don't think it's societies job to postpone something that we think is not fun, working.

 

[ksen]

Probably because I don't think, and no one else has argued, that everyone should go to college.

Why shouldn't we force people to go like we force people to go to school when they are young?

They have no right to cheat society do they?

I sense a lack of commitment to this need to have everyone educated maximally.

Remember when you commented to me a couple of hours ago about making posts that make me look dumb?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

What level of education should we pay for and why college? Should we as a society pay for someone to study 13th century Italian art?

Some here seem to be arguing yes, we should, and seem to be arguing that this is just as important as funding the training of doctors and engineers. That makes no sense at all to me.

Most here are from a country that doesn't even have universal health care, nevermind universal basic income, roads in good shape, a well funded science program, and here they are arguing that we should fund belly lint philosophy courses with public tax dollars. Poe's law comes quickly to mind.

I wonder if they'd support public funding for religious indoctrination. That is a form of "education" too right?

 

[dismal]

Why shouldn't we force people to go like we force people to go to school when they are young?

They have no right to cheat society do they?

I sense a lack of commitment to this need to have everyone educated maximally.

Remember when you commented to me a couple of hours ago about making posts that make me look dumb?

Tip: It's when you stop attempting to argue the topic and make personal attacks that makes you look like you have nothing useful to say.
Tip2: You just did it again.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

and what proof do you have that Harvard, while a good school, would maximize everyone's education? People learn different things in different ways. And I have already stated my interest in learning through apprenticeship. A person who does best learning in a one on one environment would get the most from an apprenticeship but may struggle and never fully grasp the material if taught in an auditorium with 150 other freshman.

But the point was not so much that everyone need go to Harvard specifically but to some ultra-elite University for which I used Harvard as a proxy.

Surely you would agree that quality matters, and education cannot be maximized at Southern New Hampshire University?

i don't know enough about Southern NH to say Or its faculty or the particular student applying to say one way or the other.

What reason do you have to think that Southern NH University is likely to be as good at educating people as Harvard or other recognized elite universities?

Did I say it was or did I say,

I don't know enough about Southern NH to say Or its faculty or the particular student applying to say one way or the other.​

"i don't know enough to say one way or the other" is a perfectly valid answer and one you might do well to use more often.

It seems you are just in avoidance mode again.

Maybe you should take some time to think about what you really want to advocate and why and then you can respond to questions about it honestly without all the bobbing and weaving.

The point I am making is not about Harvard or SNHU specifically but that if we want to maximize everyone's education we must give everyone an elite education for life. The intent was not to have a nitpick fest about Harvard.

Do you support giving everyone an elite education for life or not?

i see what you did there even if you didn't.

You changed the question from maximizing everyone's education to giving everyone an elite education.

These are not the same things.

i see people everyday reading books, going to lectures, visiting museums and art galleries, all as exercises in maximizing their educations. Most of these people will never set foot in an ivy league school, which you appear to be setting as an example of an elite education.

an education at an good public school will stack up well against an education from a good private school any day of the week. The reason people choose those elite schools isn't because Yale is better at educating than Berkley or UNC, but because of connections made and yet to be made an ivy league school does and can offer. It's a prestige thing, a getting into the right club's thing.

But none of that matters if the school isn't a good fit for the student in question. If Jane Doe isn't comfortable or happy at Princeton, she won't do well there, even though Princeton is a good school and she is a good student.

This isn't avoidance, this is eight years of actually in class teaching experience and three decades of private tutoring, supplemental educational development and practice, along with actual study of the educational systems of schools across the country and the learning styles of individual students.

You want to make a political and/or ideological point without regard to real world goals or outcomes. You want to argue extremes and "win the internet."

And i am just not down with that game today.

 

[dismal]

and what proof do you have that Harvard, while a good school, would maximize everyone's education? People learn different things in different ways. And I have already stated my interest in learning through apprenticeship. A person who does best learning in a one on one environment would get the most from an apprenticeship but may struggle and never fully grasp the material if taught in an auditorium with 150 other freshman.

But the point was not so much that everyone need go to Harvard specifically but to some ultra-elite University for which I used Harvard as a proxy.

Surely you would agree that quality matters, and education cannot be maximized at Southern New Hampshire University?

i don't know enough about Southern NH to say Or its faculty or the particular student applying to say one way or the other.

What reason do you have to think that Southern NH University is likely to be as good at educating people as Harvard or other recognized elite universities?

Did I say it was or did I say,

I don't know enough about Southern NH to say Or its faculty or the particular student applying to say one way or the other.​

"i don't know enough to say one way or the other" is a perfectly valid answer and one you might do well to use more often.

It seems you are just in avoidance mode again.

Maybe you should take some time to think about what you really want to advocate and why and then you can respond to questions about it honestly without all the bobbing and weaving.

The point I am making is not about Harvard or SNHU specifically but that if we want to maximize everyone's education we must give everyone an elite education for life. The intent was not to have a nitpick fest about Harvard.

Do you support giving everyone an elite education for life or not?

i see what you did there even if you didn't.

You changed the question from maximizing everyone's education to giving everyone an elite education.

These are not the same things.

i see people everyday reading books, going to lectures, visiting museums and art galleries, all as exercises in maximizing their educations. Most of these people will never set foot in an ivy league school, which you appear to be setting as an example of an elite education.

an education at an good public school will stack up well against an education from a good private school any day of the week. The reason people choose those elite schools isn't because Yale is better at educating than Berkley or UNC, but because of connections made and yet to be made an ivy league school does and can offer. It's a prestige thing, a getting into the right club's thing.

But none of that matters if the school isn't a good fit for the student in question. If Jane Doe isn't comfortable or happy at Princeton, she won't do well there, even though Princeton is a good school and she is a good student.

This isn't avoidance, this is eight years of actually in class teaching experience and three decades of private tutoring, supplemental educational development and practice, along with actual study of the educational systems of schools across the country and the learning styles of individual students.

You want to make a political and/or ideological point without regard to real world goals or outcomes. You want to argue extremes and "win the internet."

And i am just not down with that game today.

Do you ever get tired of evading a direct answer?

What are you actually worried is going to happen if you concede that maximizing an education requires sending people to an elite program not a second rate diploma mill?

Why is this even slightly difficult to admit?

 

[ksen]

Do you ever get tired of evading a direct answer?

Do you ever get tired of asking questions that have nothing to do with the thread topic or arguments being actually made for really real in real life?

What are you actually worried is going to happen if you concede that maximizing an education requires sending people to an elite program not a second rate diploma mill?

First, who has argued that maximizing education requires elite schools?

Secondly, are elite schools and diploma mills your only two options?

Why is this even slightly difficult to admit?

Is it even slightly difficult to address the posts people are actually making?

 

[dismal]

Do you ever get tired of asking questions that have nothing to do with the thread topic or arguments being actually made for really real in real life?

The fact you can't figure out what it has to do with the topic is a reflection only on you.

 

[Toni]

Do you ever get tired of asking questions that have nothing to do with the thread topic or arguments being actually made for really real in real life?

The fact you can't figure out what it has to do with the topic is a reflection only on you.

Reductio ad absurbum, minus any logic.