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Fascists gonna Fascist

scombrid

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SpaceX wants to launch 30 rockets per day in Louisiana. How do they do that?

Landry also signed new laws exempting aerospace companies from property taxes, liability and nuisance claims related to noise, vibrations, heat exhaust and sonic booms and public records laws. SpaceX is covered in those exemptions.

So not are they unregulated and operating pretty much for free (the tax savings are epic) they passed laws blocking all reasonable recourse for anyone harmed by the company. Now that is the true libertarian GOP. Real FreedomTM



Louisiana doing GOP Things
 
I don't know that I'd call that fascism so much as using incentives to bring in more revenue. SpaceX itself may not pay much, if anything in property taxes, but they will be a significant employer (up to 10,000 jobs), which will help provide revenue that way. And once SpaceX is there, Louisiana could eventually change course to a higher tax structure while still being lower than any other state.

Louisiana Economic Development, a state agency, says the facility will include five launch complexes and housing for employees and their families. In the video, Musk says the site will bring around 10,000 jobs to Louisiana.

In every endeavor there are upsides and downsides. LA sees more upside to this than downside. The job of a state government and its federal representatives is to improve the state. It looks like they've done that here. At the same time it takes jobs away from California and provides an example of how it is viable to bail out of high tax states.

In addition:

The announcement event wasn't the only exclusive part of the deal, which the state says brings $100 billion in investment.

LA is one of the poorest states in the Union. It would be negligent for them not to try and improve their lot.
 
I'm more interested in how they plan to build this out in an engineering sense of things. The land out there is awful for construction. The soils just keep being awful the further you go down. Bedrock is absurdly deep, like Mt. Everest tall deep.

People might notice there is nothing on the coast out there! People LOVE waterfronts and this place ain't got one. There is no reason for this to work other than the value of the land is dirt cheap because it is the cheapest land in the nation to work with.
 
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Not particularly related to fascism. Mindless deregulation sure, but not fascism.
 
I'm more interested in how they plan to build this out in an engineering sense of things. The land out there is awful for construction. The soils just keep being awful the further you go down. Bedrock is absurdly deep, like Mt. Everest tall deep.

People might notice there is nothing on the coast out there! People LOVE waterfronts and this place ain't got one. There is a reason for this.

Around the New Orleans area it sure is tough:

How far do building engineers have to go to reach bedrock under New Orleans?

The launch complex is further west, so somewhat away from the Mississippi River. Bedrock might be closer there. I would assume they have some kind of plan to deal with it.
 
Louisiana is around #49 or 50 when it comes to the states with the highest poverty rates. They need a boost, and I hope this endevour can help.
I find it hard to argue with that. People will hate Musk and maybe rightly so for a number of reasons, but this isn't one of them.
Meanwhile, the Gulf Coast is sinking. Because the ground is so crap, it can't support itself!
Maybe?

Before committing to such a large project and investment SpaceX would know what it can and can't do with respect to physical construction. Can you say with any factual basis that what they plan to do is impossible? It's safe to say that Elon Musk and his teams didn't just show up in Louisiana on a larf, get wasted on Bourbon Street, and come to the overall conclusion of, "Fuck it, why not? This place is fun!"
 
I'm more interested in how they plan to build this out in an engineering sense of things. The land out there is awful for construction. The soils just keep being awful the further you go down. Bedrock is absurdly deep, like Mt. Everest tall deep.

People might notice there is nothing on the coast out there! People LOVE waterfronts and this place ain't got one. There is a reason for this.

Around the New Orleans area it sure is tough:

How far do building engineers have to go to reach bedrock under New Orleans?

The launch complex is further west, so somewhat away from the Mississippi River. Bedrock might be closer there. I would assume they have some kind of plan to deal with it.
No, it's not. It is near one of the former Mississippi delta, and alluvial deposition out there is millions of years in the works, not merely the Mississippi.

I also doubt they have "some plan to deal with it". Musk saw the potential based on how dirt cheap the land is and said 'we'll do it there!'
Louisiana is around #49 or 50 when it comes to the states with the highest poverty rates. They need a boost, and I hope this endevour can help.
I find it hard to argue with that. People will hate Musk and maybe rightly so for a number of reasons, but this isn't one of them.
Meanwhile, the Gulf Coast is sinking. Because the ground is so crap, it can't support itself!
Maybe?
Not maybe. The ground sucks, is consolidating and dropping due to widescale global tectonic stuff. On the average magnitude of 1 inch every three years. In the biz, that is way too much for roadway or a bridge or a building, forget about launch pads.
Before committing to such a large project and investment SpaceX would know what it can and can't do with respect to physical construction. Can you say with any factual basis that what they plan to do is impossible?
The problem with remediating the area is that the consolidation runs deep, and the Arctic, which has less ice is rebounding, which is also causing Louisiana to settle. Which means, you can't just mat up a fix, because everything under the mat is also sinking. Nothing is impossible, but I can't fathom how they can build roads out there to transit the rockets, forget about launch platforms.
It's safe to say that Elon Musk and his teams didn't just show up in Louisiana on a larf, get wasted on Bourbon Street, and come to the overall conclusion of, "Fuck it, why not? This place is fun!"
You are talking about the guy that forced the Cybertruck on the planet. Musk isn't a viable visionary, he has capital that's it. He has a couple good ideas and then thinks ALL of his ideas are good. SpaceX is sending lots of rockets into space, great! But he wants to go to Mars to have people live on a rock with air you can't breath... not great.

He sees an area untapped and really cheap, not bothering for a second to understand why the Gulf Coast in Louisiana is untapped and cheap. Short of locating a launch facility on a volcano, I'm having difficulties thinking of a worse place in the US to suggest putting a huge array of rocket launch pads at.

And we haven't even got to the part about flooding!
 
I don't know that I'd call that fascism so much as using incentives to bring in more revenue. SpaceX itself may not pay much, if anything in property taxes, but they will be a significant employer (up to 10,000 jobs), which will help provide revenue that way. And once SpaceX is there, Louisiana could eventually change course to a higher tax structure while still being lower than any other state.

Louisiana Economic Development, a state agency, says the facility will include five launch complexes and housing for employees and their families. In the video, Musk says the site will bring around 10,000 jobs to Louisiana.

In every endeavor there are upsides and downsides. LA sees more upside to this than downside. The job of a state government and its federal representatives is to improve the state. It looks like they've done that here. At the same time it takes jobs away from California and provides an example of how it is viable to bail out of high tax states.


How would building this launch complex take jobs away from California exactly?
 
I don't know that I'd call that fascism so much as using incentives to bring in more revenue. SpaceX itself may not pay much, if anything in property taxes, but they will be a significant employer (up to 10,000 jobs), which will help provide revenue that way. And once SpaceX is there, Louisiana could eventually change course to a higher tax structure while still being lower than any other state.

Louisiana Economic Development, a state agency, says the facility will include five launch complexes and housing for employees and their families. In the video, Musk says the site will bring around 10,000 jobs to Louisiana.

In every endeavor there are upsides and downsides. LA sees more upside to this than downside. The job of a state government and its federal representatives is to improve the state. It looks like they've done that here. At the same time it takes jobs away from California and provides an example of how it is viable to bail out of high tax states.


How would building this launch complex take jobs away from California exactly?
It would have been more accurate to say that it's jobs California might have otherwise gotten. SpaceX launches from there, Texas, and Florida, so it was presumptive on my part to use California as a primary example.
 
I would assume they have some kind of plan to deal with it.
pCHsiFSMmBfbCYaRfStP9i-1200-80.jpg.webp
 
Louisiana did not need to cut such a deal for this location. It is very large and prime for both polar and equatorial orbits launching both eastward and to the south.
Musk would probably have paid full freight for this location. Louisianians got boned.
 
I don't know that I'd call that fascism so much as using incentives to bring in more revenue. SpaceX itself may not pay much, if anything in property taxes, but they will be a significant employer (up to 10,000 jobs), which will help provide revenue that way. And once SpaceX is there, Louisiana could eventually change course to a higher tax structure while still being lower than any other state.

Louisiana Economic Development, a state agency, says the facility will include five launch complexes and housing for employees and their families. In the video, Musk says the site will bring around 10,000 jobs to Louisiana.

In every endeavor there are upsides and downsides. LA sees more upside to this than downside. The job of a state government and its federal representatives is to improve the state. It looks like they've done that here. At the same time it takes jobs away from California and provides an example of how it is viable to bail out of high tax states.


How would building this launch complex take jobs away from California exactly?
It would have been more accurate to say that it's jobs California might have otherwise gotten. SpaceX launches from there, Texas, and Florida, so it was presumptive on my part to use California as a primary example.
I believe that the California launches out of vandenberg are exclusive in orbital parameter from those from Texas and Florida given the geography/which side the water is on. So I don’t think this has an impact on the California launch cadence.

Also, my understanding Is that the Louisiana launch facility is primarily for starship, whereas vandenberg is optimized for falcons.
 
I would assume they have some kind of plan to deal with it.
pCHsiFSMmBfbCYaRfStP9i-1200-80.jpg.webp
A spent rocket booster is one thing. A fully loaded Starship with its ginormous engine thrust at launch is another thing altogether. Its way beyond my paygrade to even guess how stable the base needs to be for that.
I looked online and found a geotech report for a small project on Pecan Island. Borings only went 25ish feet deep, but It included consolidation testing, which is used to estimate settlement totals. I'm not used to seeing Cc values approaching 2.0. 5 years for primary consolidation to reach 90% complete. But that was for a small development.

Engineering can fix all sorts of things, but coastal Louisiana is one of the worst locations one could pick. The report I read, recommended the embankments not be any higher than 5 feet, and slopes needed to be 4 to 1 (typical ground is 2 to 1). Unit weight is 70 to 80 pcf... and with high ground water... oi!
 
The news mentioned in the OP raises three problems for me - its plausibility in terms of technical, economic, and logic grounds.
Technical is covered by previous posts about practical problems. Economic is in regards to a launch costing about $100 m. Even if have reduction due to scale which reduces cost to $30m per launch, that's a lot of investment (no doubt counterable by claim of return on investment), and with thirty launches a day that is $900m (almost $1 billion per day).
But the biggest objection that I have is the logic of 30 launches a day. You don't just launch rockets for the hell of it, they each must have a needed mission. Some missions can be new and replacement satellites, and no doubt they are thinking of trips to ISS (or its replacement), but that does not come near to needing 10,000 launches a year, so that figure must be hyperbole.
 
I don't know that I'd call that fascism so much as using incentives to bring in more revenue. SpaceX itself may not pay much, if anything in property taxes, but they will be a significant employer (up to 10,000 jobs), which will help provide revenue that way. And once SpaceX is there, Louisiana could eventually change course to a higher tax structure while still being lower than any other state.

Louisiana Economic Development, a state agency, says the facility will include five launch complexes and housing for employees and their families. In the video, Musk says the site will bring around 10,000 jobs to Louisiana.

In every endeavor there are upsides and downsides. LA sees more upside to this than downside. The job of a state government and its federal representatives is to improve the state. It looks like they've done that here. At the same time it takes jobs away from California and provides an example of how it is viable to bail out of high tax states.

In addition:

The announcement event wasn't the only exclusive part of the deal, which the state says brings $100 billion in investment.

LA is one of the poorest states in the Union. It would be negligent for them not to try and improve their lot.
They can’t bring jobs without laws shielding them from any responsibility for negative externalities? Government is shielding them from all liability and that is good? They just buy their way in and fuck the local population just like mineral or petroleum extraction in a third world country. Just look at all the prosperity king coal brought to Appalachia.
 
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