[Edited] Video of Dallas Police Killing Mentally Ill Man

[arkirk]

It's hard to see what happened there but from what we can see it's pretty obvious he came at them. While we don't see what he was doing while he came at them he had the screwdriver in hand and a screwdriver certainly can be used to stab.


And I've pointed out repeatedly that tasers aren't used in situations like this. Pointing out the tasers on their hips is showing you don't understand the situation.

As we have pointed out repeatedly you have no idea about what you are talking about.

So Loren and Malintent seem to like the pistola cure for all of society's problems...as long as a cop is manning it. It is odd that little black woman didn't have any fear at all. These cops are cowards and also physically unfit to be cops if they must rely on their guns to control that mentally incapacitated man.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's hard to see what happened there but from what we can see it's pretty obvious he came at them. While we don't see what he was doing while he came at them he had the screwdriver in hand and a screwdriver certainly can be used to stab.


And I've pointed out repeatedly that tasers aren't used in situations like this. Pointing out the tasers on their hips is showing you don't understand the situation.

As we have pointed out repeatedly you have no idea about what you are talking about.

You have claimed that but provided no support. You have shown you don't understand the mechanics of self defense.

Note that that video was posted by a cop who said it was pretty clearly a justified shoot--retreat was impossible due to the parked car, the guy came at him with the screwdriver.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

As we have pointed out repeatedly you have no idea about what you are talking about.

So Loren and Malintent seem to like the pistola cure for all of society's problems...as long as a cop is manning it. It is odd that little black woman didn't have any fear at all. These cops are cowards and also physically unfit to be cops if they must rely on their guns to control that mentally incapacitated man.

The little black woman called the cops because he was nuts and she couldn't control him. She wasn't in danger because she wasn't trying to make him do anything at that point. The cops were in danger, though, because they were going to make him do something he didn't want to do. Note that she identified him as bipolar and schizophrenic--unreasonable, violent behavior is not exactly surprising.

Perhaps it could have been handled better had the cops known what they were walking into but note their question "what's going on here?"--they apparently didn't know they were walking into an out-of-control crazy.

 

[laughing dog]

So Loren and Malintent seem to like the pistola cure for all of society's problems...as long as a cop is manning it. It is odd that little black woman didn't have any fear at all. These cops are cowards and also physically unfit to be cops if they must rely on their guns to control that mentally incapacitated man.

The little black woman called the cops because he was nuts and she couldn't control him. She wasn't in danger because she wasn't trying to make him do anything at that point. The cops were in danger, though, because they were going to make him do something he didn't want to do. Note that she identified him as bipolar and schizophrenic--unreasonable, violent behavior is not exactly surprising.

Perhaps it could have been handled better had the cops known what they were walking into but note their question "what's going on here?"--they apparently didn't know they were walking into an out-of-control crazy.

So their ignorance justifies shooting to kill? Really?

 

[fast]

I think cops should be shooting people that assault them more often than they do... regardless of how 'easy' absent civilians think it might have been to take one action or another instead of shooting to kill.

Attack a cop for any reason, with or without any weapon of any kind, and you get shot. That should be the law. Physically attack a cop and you die.

Although I can appreciate your results oriented mind-set, (look for the positive, they tell me), too many non-cops would be unnecessarily killed than they would otherwise; moreover, and unfortunately, less cops would be harmed, and I know that's negative and an unacceptable attitude (but take a balanced approach, they tell me).

Even if by chance you have good intentions, barbarically taking the life of others isn't necessary to exact change. That's not to say we can't add an appalling element of incivility to the equation. For instance, we could beat a loved one for each instance of violence against an officer. After the officer puts his own life in danger by never using a gun unless a gun is clearly involved (and more cops will get hurt, but that's okay ... most will live), someone, usually a parent of the person who attacked the cop will be selected, located, and taken into custody for a public beating. It doesn't have to be brutal, just hurtful. Of course, this will only be in conjunction with a country wide initiated program in public schools across the nation teaching children and young adults that we will no longer limit punishment to the wrong-doers but also to the people in their lives one would reasonably think they would ordinarily care about. Is it wrong and unfair? Absolutely, but remember, 1) less non-cops would be shot, and 2) more cops would be harmed. Can't we sacrifice some civility for that?

Under your proposal, many people will be outraged and killed. Under my alternative fantasy proposal, many people will be outraged yet not killed. If anyone thinks the killings under my proposal will result in more deaths through revolt, they are forgetting about how gradual shifts in mindset can lead people to endure a reign of rule akin to evil kings of centuries past. Of course, we'd probably have to end the internet and global communication before stomping out liberal minded uprisings, but hey, I never said it would be easy, but hey hey, less deaths.

But wait, is that a life worth living? Nay, probably not. Don't get me wrong, I think some incivility may not be as bad as one might think, but both your plan and mine are examples of extremism that has no place in today's world--even if we could pull it off. Emotion may fuel our desire to bring about immediate and poignant change, but our intellect must intercede to bring reasoned and just action, even if the results are less than ideal, for how we go about doing what we can plays an enormous moral role in doing the things we can.

 

[Frikki]

As we have pointed out repeatedly you have no idea about what you are talking about.

You have claimed that but provided no support. You have shown you don't understand the mechanics of self defense.

Note that that video was posted by a cop who said it was pretty clearly a justified shoot--retreat was impossible due to the parked car, the guy came at him with the screwdriver.

Well Police all over the world send out police that magically don´t kill the insane. Where I live and work with the police they have once killed a disturbed person. The killing of civilians by police is a third world problem and an American one.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The little black woman called the cops because he was nuts and she couldn't control him. She wasn't in danger because she wasn't trying to make him do anything at that point. The cops were in danger, though, because they were going to make him do something he didn't want to do. Note that she identified him as bipolar and schizophrenic--unreasonable, violent behavior is not exactly surprising.

Perhaps it could have been handled better had the cops known what they were walking into but note their question "what's going on here?"--they apparently didn't know they were walking into an out-of-control crazy.

So their ignorance justifies shooting to kill? Really?

How about addressing the situation rather than always trying to twist it??

They were attacked. They defended themselves.

Had they known they were dealing with a crazy who was liable to try something like that they might have gone in with a gun & taser combo, thus making it likely he was hit by a taser rather than a bullet. That's something that would have to have been planned in advance, though.

 

[ksen]

So their ignorance justifies shooting to kill? Really?

How about addressing the situation rather than always trying to twist it??

They were attacked. They defended themselves.

Had they known they were dealing with a crazy who was liable to try something like that they might have gone in with a gun & taser combo, thus making it likely he was hit by a taser rather than a bullet. That's something that would have to have been planned in advance, though.

Man, if only someone had called the police and told them she wanted help getting her schizophrenic son to take his meds.

 

[laughing dog]

So their ignorance justifies shooting to kill? Really?

How about addressing the situation rather than always trying to twist it??

Don't post while you are looking in the mirror.

They were attacked. They defended themselves.

Had they known they were dealing with a crazy who was liable to try something like that they might have gone in with a gun & taser combo, thus making it likely he was hit by a taser rather than a bullet.

Here you go again, saying they had to shoot to kill because of their ignorance of the situation.

That's something that would have to have been planned in advance, though.

Wrong again.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How about addressing the situation rather than always trying to twist it??

They were attacked. They defended themselves.

Had they known they were dealing with a crazy who was liable to try something like that they might have gone in with a gun & taser combo, thus making it likely he was hit by a taser rather than a bullet. That's something that would have to have been planned in advance, though.

Man, if only someone had called the police and told them she wanted help getting her schizophrenic son to take his meds.

The lack of that information is not the fault of the police.

It's common for such people to downplay the risks of the situation--even in their own minds. I very much doubt she told them the whole situation.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How about addressing the situation rather than always trying to twist it??

Don't post while you are looking in the mirror.

They were attacked. They defended themselves.

Had they known they were dealing with a crazy who was liable to try something like that they might have gone in with a gun & taser combo, thus making it likely he was hit by a taser rather than a bullet.

Here you go again, saying they had to shoot to kill because of their ignorance of the situation.

That's something that would have to have been planned in advance, though.

Wrong again.

You're the one twisting the situation. A use of force decision is based on the information known to the person using the force, not from some all-seeing god eye. Thus the cop's ignorance of the threat is relevant.

And if it's not planned in advance how do you propose they do it? There certainly wasn't time to coordinate that one use their taser while the other draws their gun in case the taser fails. Without pre-planning it you have a 50% chance both draw the same weapon. Two guns--you end up with the situation we saw. Two tasers--there's a reasonable chance both fail and a cop gets stabbed.

Furthermore, given how close it was there probably isn't time to see if the taser works or not. The taser cop would have already have to have his weapon ready at the start of the incident for this to work.

 

[laughing dog]

Man, if only someone had called the police and told them she wanted help getting her schizophrenic son to take his meds.

The lack of that information is not the fault of the police.

Nope. They are supposed to accurately assess the situation.

It's common for such people to downplay the risks of the situation--even in their own minds. I very much doubt she told them the whole situation.

You are literally making up excuses without a shred of evidence to support your assumptions.

 

[laughing dog]

You're the one twisting the situation.

Nope, you even admit it again in the next sentence.

A use of force decision is based on the information known to the person using the force, not from some all-seeing god eye. Thus the cop's ignorance of the threat is relevant.

Of course it is relevant but the ignorance is not an excuse.

And if it's not planned in advance how do you propose they do it? There certainly wasn't time to coordinate that one use their taser while the other draws their gun in case the taser fails. Without pre-planning it you have a 50% chance both draw the same weapon. Two guns--you end up with the situation we saw. Two tasers--there's a reasonable chance both fail and a cop gets stabbed.

Furthermore, given how close it was there probably isn't time to see if the taser works or not. The taser cop would have already have to have his weapon ready at the start of the incident for this to work.

Here you go - literally making up excuses to justify your lack of actual information and their actions.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The lack of that information is not the fault of the police.

Nope. They are supposed to accurately assess the situation.

And they had no time to do so.

It's common for such people to downplay the risks of the situation--even in their own minds. I very much doubt she told them the whole situation.

You are literally making up excuses without a shred of evidence to support your assumptions.

Listen to the video. The cop asks what's going on. That implies the cops probably don't know.

 

[PyramidHead]

Do you have a flowchart of police rationalizations that you consult for these threads?

 

[laughing dog]

Nope. They are supposed to accurately assess the situation.

And they had no time to do so.

Are you under the impression that these police officers were teleported from their beds and then immobilised?

It's common for such people to downplay the risks of the situation--even in their own minds. I very much doubt she told them the whole situation.

You are literally making up excuses without a shred of evidence to support your assumptions.

Listen to the video. The cop asks what's going on. That implies the cops probably don't know.

Wherever I have lived, the police always ask what is going on when they arrive. That allows them to confirm they are at the right location, that they are taking with the caller, and it permits them to learn what has transpired since they received the call. Please stop making up excuses.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And they had no time to do so.

Are you under the impression that these police officers were teleported from their beds and then immobilised?

It's common for such people to downplay the risks of the situation--even in their own minds. I very much doubt she told them the whole situation.

You are literally making up excuses without a shred of evidence to support your assumptions.

Listen to the video. The cop asks what's going on. That implies the cops probably don't know.

Wherever I have lived, the police always ask what is going on when they arrive. That allows them to confirm they are at the right location, that they are taking with the caller, and it permits them to learn what has transpired since they received the call. Please stop making up excuses.

I was under the impression you were capable of telling time. Look at that video, where do they have time to arrange anything after they find out they're facing an aggressive schizo?

 

[laughing dog]

Are you under the impression that these police officers were teleported from their beds and then immobilised?

It's common for such people to downplay the risks of the situation--even in their own minds. I very much doubt she told them the whole situation.

You are literally making up excuses without a shred of evidence to support your assumptions.

Listen to the video. The cop asks what's going on. That implies the cops probably don't know.

Wherever I have lived, the police always ask what is going on when they arrive. That allows them to confirm they are at the right location, that they are taking with the caller, and it permits them to learn what has transpired since they received the call. Please stop making up excuses.

I was under the impression you were capable of telling time. Look at that video, where do they have time to arrange anything after they find out they're facing an aggressive schizo?

They had time to shoot, so they had time to not shoot and figure something out. You do realize these are trained police officers who are awake, alert and mobile. Wait, I amend that statement, because after they shot this guy and he is not moving and bleeding on the ground, they continue to yell at him to drop the screwdriver and then one of them asks "Should we cuff him"?

So, I apologize. These two police officers are dimwits. But that does not excuse their execution of a mentally ill man.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Are you under the impression that these police officers were teleported from their beds and then immobilised?

It's common for such people to downplay the risks of the situation--even in their own minds. I very much doubt she told them the whole situation.

You are literally making up excuses without a shred of evidence to support your assumptions.

Listen to the video. The cop asks what's going on. That implies the cops probably don't know.

Wherever I have lived, the police always ask what is going on when they arrive. That allows them to confirm they are at the right location, that they are taking with the caller, and it permits them to learn what has transpired since they received the call. Please stop making up excuses.

I was under the impression you were capable of telling time. Look at that video, where do they have time to arrange anything after they find out they're facing an aggressive schizo?

They had time to shoot, so they had time to not shoot and figure something out. You do realize these are trained police officers who are awake, alert and mobile. Wait, I amend that statement, because after they shot this guy and he is not moving and bleeding on the ground, they continue to yell at him to drop the screwdriver and then one of them asks "Should we cuff him"?

So, I apologize. These two police officers are dimwits. But that does not excuse their execution of a mentally ill man.

I'm afraid you're calling yourself stupid here. You say they had time to figure something out--yet you, with far more time, hasn't figured anything out. Since cops are generally of average intelligence the only explanation is that you're far below average intelligence, or else that you have absolutely no idea of how the police function.

Which is it, or do you want to rethink your position??

 

[laughing dog]

Are you under the impression that these police officers were teleported from their beds and then immobilised?

It's common for such people to downplay the risks of the situation--even in their own minds. I very much doubt she told them the whole situation.

You are literally making up excuses without a shred of evidence to support your assumptions.

Listen to the video. The cop asks what's going on. That implies the cops probably don't know.

Wherever I have lived, the police always ask what is going on when they arrive. That allows them to confirm they are at the right location, that they are taking with the caller, and it permits them to learn what has transpired since they received the call. Please stop making up excuses.

I was under the impression you were capable of telling time. Look at that video, where do they have time to arrange anything after they find out they're facing an aggressive schizo?

They had time to shoot, so they had time to not shoot and figure something out. You do realize these are trained police officers who are awake, alert and mobile. Wait, I amend that statement, because after they shot this guy and he is not moving and bleeding on the ground, they continue to yell at him to drop the screwdriver and then one of them asks "Should we cuff him"?

So, I apologize. These two police officers are dimwits. But that does not excuse their execution of a mentally ill man.

I'm afraid you're calling yourself stupid here. You say they had time to figure something out--yet you, with far more time, hasn't figured anything out.

Nice try at shifting the goal posts. I was not asked to figure out something else. Ironically, you have had plenty of time to actually think about what happened and come up with actual evidence to support your claims of fact, but you still respond with the same idiotic defense of "Danger Danger, must shoot to kill".

Since cops are generally of average intelligence the only explanation is that you're far below average intelligence, or else that you have absolutely no idea of how the police function.

There other explanations. For example, your assumption that these particular police officers are of average intelligence is counter-factual (as demonstrated by the video confirmation of their wondering about cuffing a dying immobile man). Another explanation is that you have no clue about police or normal human behavior.

Which is it, or do you want to rethink your position??

I am rethinking my position in the usefulness in discussing this issue with a kneejerk defender of the police whose imagination is not bound by reality or human decency.