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A Good Corporate Citizen

So if the government went out and choose an incompetent contractor that provides shoddy service and products, that's an example of the free market in action? Are you guys for real?

Why wouldn't it be? Are you for real? Where does competence enter into a free market interaction?

Free markets tend to punish the incompetent.

Government may or may not because governments don't need to make people happy to endure. They can point guns at people to get their money. No particular need to keep customers happy to survive.

Aramark has corporate clients as well. If they did this to their corporate clients, or otherwise made them unhappy, they would be shitcanned so fast it will make your head spin. The people that were responsible for hiring them and/or managing the contracts with them would also face a decent probability of shitcanning or being put on an undesirable career track.

But somehow evil greedy Aramark operates thousands of corporate cafeterias and we have no horror stories about them.
 
Free markets tend to punish the incompetent.

If it's a small business then maybe. If it's a big business then that's highly doubtful.

Example: incompetent financial firms that nearly broke the world's economies are still in business and bigger than ever.

eta: what squirrel said

eta2: Nice Squirrel, delete your post immediately!
 
Not necessarily, but when a function is entirely a government function that won't exist without the government - such as a prison - then you have a pretty good clue that it isn't a free market based activity.

Ok, it is possible that organized crime might also run such a facility, but we're talking an extreme example here.

Since when is feeding people "entirely a government function that won't exist without the government?"

Feeding inmates. You're now the second person in this thread that equivocated between the specialized subgroup known as inmates with the supergroup known as people.
 
Free markets tend to punish the incompetent.

If it's a small business then maybe. If it's a big business then that's highly doubtful.

Example: incompetent financial firms that nearly broke the world's economies are still in business and bigger than ever.

eta: what squirrel said

eta2: Nice Squirrel, delete your post immediately!

You are referring to the financial firms that would have gone bankrupt without the decidedly non-free market government bailout?

Perhaps you should stop to think a minute before answering or just stick to awesome adult style argument like AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.
 
But somehow evil greedy Aramark operates thousands of corporate cafeterias and we have no horror stories about them.

5 seconds on Google

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...od-safety-violations-kansas-city-pro-stadiums

Among the concerns found at the stadiums by the manager: cockroaches in vending areas, mouse feces on the same tray as pizza dough, sinks where employees were supposed to wash their hands being blocked by boxes or trash, employees eating in food prep areas and trays of food headed for customers that measured at unsafe temperatures. The health department found several critical violations, including mold growth in ice machines, dirty pans and trays and excessive numbers of fruit flies.

"When we lose control over hygienic practices and we also combine that with poor temperature control -- that could be a catastrophe," said Jon Costa, the district food safety manager for Aramark, which runs the concessions at both venues and has food and beverage contracts with 30 professional sports teams. "That is a recipe for foodborne illness. ... It's very likely temperatures are abused every game. Every game."

Costa sent information about the food safety concerns to local media and ESPN last week, a step he said he took after months of trying to get Aramark senior management to address his concerns and reprimand employees who broke food handling and prep rules. He said he had no authority to reprimand employees, and he was powerless on site because the employees he would have been instructing did not report to him. After learning that Costa sent those details to the media, Aramark placed him on paid administrative leave last week for violating its media policy, Costa said.

- - - Updated - - -

Since when is feeding people "entirely a government function that won't exist without the government?"

Feeding inmates. You're now the second person in this thread that equivocated between the specialized subgroup known as inmates with the supergroup known as people.

You mean inmates wouldn't get fed in a free market libertarian utopia? Or is your argument that there would be no prisoners in a truly free market society?
 
Running a prison - even a contracted out prison - is not a free market activity. It is a government activity. Even in a minarchist system with almost no government, in which there are still jails, and the economic impact of the government is as light as it can possibly be and still have the government exist, feeding inmates is a government function. Even when that function is contracted out.

There are no private jails, only government jails or government contract jails. If there was a private jail the owners would be arrested for kidnapping people and holding them unlawfully. A private jail would have private clients, not government clients. Government contract jails work in a monopsonist system with only one customer.

So, given what a private jail is, who are the inmates that would need to be fed?
 
5 seconds on Google

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...od-safety-violations-kansas-city-pro-stadiums

Among the concerns found at the stadiums by the manager: cockroaches in vending areas, mouse feces on the same tray as pizza dough, sinks where employees were supposed to wash their hands being blocked by boxes or trash, employees eating in food prep areas and trays of food headed for customers that measured at unsafe temperatures. The health department found several critical violations, including mold growth in ice machines, dirty pans and trays and excessive numbers of fruit flies.

"When we lose control over hygienic practices and we also combine that with poor temperature control -- that could be a catastrophe," said Jon Costa, the district food safety manager for Aramark, which runs the concessions at both venues and has food and beverage contracts with 30 professional sports teams. "That is a recipe for foodborne illness. ... It's very likely temperatures are abused every game. Every game."

Costa sent information about the food safety concerns to local media and ESPN last week, a step he said he took after months of trying to get Aramark senior management to address his concerns and reprimand employees who broke food handling and prep rules. He said he had no authority to reprimand employees, and he was powerless on site because the employees he would have been instructing did not report to him. After learning that Costa sent those details to the media, Aramark placed him on paid administrative leave last week for violating its media policy, Costa said.

Jackson County Sports Complex Authority (a government organization)
Arrowhead Stadium, Owner

Oops.
 

Jackson County Sports Complex Authority (a government organization)
Arrowhead Stadium, Owner

Oops.

In any case I would go back to my original point that the food service business is full of this sort of thing. I'm sure in communist Russia and China they had lazy cooks who served old food from unsanitary kitchens. At least when there was food because Stalin wasn't engineering some sort of death famine or Mao wasn't killing 40 million people with his new agricultural policy.
 
Jackson County Sports Complex Authority (a government organization)
Arrowhead Stadium, Owner

Oops.

In any case I would go back to my original point that the food service business is full of this sort of thing. I'm sure in communist Russia and China they had lazy cooks who served old food from unsanitary kitchens. At least when there was food because Stalin wasn't engineering some sort of death famine or Mao wasn't killing 40 million people with his new agricultural policy.

Agreed - no one has ever claimed the free market among private vendors and customers achieves perfection - just that it tends to lead to better outcomes than a scenario where the government is the supplier or the customer.
 
Since when is feeding people "entirely a government function that won't exist without the government?"

Feeding inmates. You're now the second person in this thread that equivocated between the specialized subgroup known as inmates with the supergroup known as people.
For some reason, you think that "feeding" means something different for human inmates compare to humans who are not inmates.
 
In any case I would go back to my original point that the food service business is full of this sort of thing. I'm sure in communist Russia and China they had lazy cooks who served old food from unsanitary kitchens. At least when there was food because Stalin wasn't engineering some sort of death famine or Mao wasn't killing 40 million people with his new agricultural policy.

Agreed - no one has ever claimed the free market among private vendors and customers achieves perfection - just that it tends to lead to better outcomes than a scenario where the government is the supplier or the customer.
That is one of the most damning indictments of the free market I have ever seen you make, because the outcome should not depend on whether the government is a customer or not.
 
Agreed - no one has ever claimed the free market among private vendors and customers achieves perfection - just that it tends to lead to better outcomes than a scenario where the government is the supplier or the customer.
That is one of the most damning indictments of the free market I have ever seen you make, because the outcome should not depend on whether the government is a customer or not.

Why shouldn't it? One of the necessary ingredients to achieve the benefits of a free market is picky customers that demand low price and high quality and who aggressively attempt to obtain compensation or refunds when the product/service is not to their standards, and who have better incentives to monitor quality and respond to lack thereof. They are fickle and take their business elsewhere when their needs and desires can be better met from a competitor.

Without that, you don't obtain as efficient of an outcome.
 
Feeding inmates. You're now the second person in this thread that equivocated between the specialized subgroup known as inmates with the supergroup known as people.
For some reason, you think that "feeding" means something different for human inmates compare to humans who are not inmates.

For some reason I think "inmates" differentiates between whether the one doing the feeding is or isn't the government.
 
That is one of the most damning indictments of the free market I have ever seen you make, because the outcome should not depend on whether the government is a customer or not.

Why shouldn't it? One of the necessary ingredients to achieve the benefits of a free market is picky customers that demand low price and high quality and who aggressively attempt to obtain compensation or refunds when the product/service is not to their standards, and who have better incentives to monitor quality and respond to lack thereof. They are fickle and take their business elsewhere when their needs and desires can be better met from a competitor.

Without that, you don't obtain as efficient of an outcome.

And that is exactly why large bureaucratic entities are incompatible with free markets.

So when are you going to start railing against the existence of large corporations?

The corporation that employs me is larger than most national governments.
 
That is one of the most damning indictments of the free market I have ever seen you make, because the outcome should not depend on whether the government is a customer or not.

Why shouldn't it? One of the necessary ingredients to achieve the benefits of a free market is picky customers that demand low price and high quality and who aggressively attempt to obtain compensation or refunds when the product/service is not to their standards, and who have better incentives to monitor quality and respond to lack thereof. They are fickle and take their business elsewhere when their needs and desires can be better met from a competitor.

Without that, you don't obtain as efficient of an outcome.

Oh, then we've never had a free market in the history of the world I guess.
 
Why shouldn't it? One of the necessary ingredients to achieve the benefits of a free market is picky customers that demand low price and high quality and who aggressively attempt to obtain compensation or refunds when the product/service is not to their standards, and who have better incentives to monitor quality and respond to lack thereof. They are fickle and take their business elsewhere when their needs and desires can be better met from a competitor.

Without that, you don't obtain as efficient of an outcome.

Oh, then we've never had a free market in the history of the world I guess.

There's never been picky and demanding customers who seek out products for the best price for the quality received in the history of the world?
 
Why shouldn't it? One of the necessary ingredients to achieve the benefits of a free market is picky customers that demand low price and high quality and who aggressively attempt to obtain compensation or refunds when the product/service is not to their standards, and who have better incentives to monitor quality and respond to lack thereof. They are fickle and take their business elsewhere when their needs and desires can be better met from a competitor.

Without that, you don't obtain as efficient of an outcome.

And that is exactly why large bureaucratic entities are incompatible with free markets.

So when are you going to start railing against the existence of large corporations?

The corporation that employs me is larger than most national governments.

Large corporations have customers, so if a large corporation isn't best meeting the needs of these customers the customers stop paying them money and go elsewhere.

This is much less so when the government is the customer, which is exactly the point.

And even when one large corporation is the customer and another large corporation is the vendor, the customer still has customers of its own it has to satisfy, so if it isn't getting value for the money spent on its vendor, it will be at a disadvantage in terms of its ability to best satisfy its own customers.

No one is talking about perfection in any of this but rather which is the better outcome among the options available?
 
And that is exactly why large bureaucratic entities are incompatible with free markets.

So when are you going to start railing against the existence of large corporations?

The corporation that employs me is larger than most national governments.

Large corporations have customers, so if a large corporation isn't best meeting the needs of these customers the customers stop paying them money and go elsewhere.

This is much less so when the government is the customer, which is exactly the point.
Okay I am late to the party here. Why can't the government change vendors? Or did you mean something else?
 
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