Ayaan Hirsi Ali: Best place in the world to be a woman is the US. Best place in the world to be black is the US

[Axulus]

Listen, this is what I have to say on women’s issues in the United States. We are so blessed as women to live in the United States. The best place to be a woman in the world is in the U.S. The best place to be black in the world is in the U.S. Is it perfect? No. Are we confronted with threats? Yes. But it’s the perfect place to fight [them] off. Because in the U.S., we have—besides the law—the majority of the population who accept that we, as women, have absolutely equal rights to men. The best place to be black in the world is here. I cannot imagine what it is like to be a black man living in Saudi Arabia, in Iran—even where the majority of people are black, like Africa. I cannot imagine a better place to be gay than in the U.S. I know that all European countries have accepted gay marriage and here in the U.S. we’re still struggling to accept that. On the other hand, when the jihadists in Europe attack gays in the streets, the governments don’t protect them. The best place to be Jewish in the world, besides the state of Israel, is in the U.S. The best place to be Christian is in the U.S. I don’t know anything else to say in the U.S. I know we’re in an election cycle and I’m supposed to take sides, but I’m not going to.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/05/ayaan-to-liberals-get-your-priorities-straight.html

What do you guys think? Do you think she is way off base? Are there countries in Europe that are better for blacks? If so, which ones? What does the data demonstrate in regards to their educational attainment, median income, economic mobility, life expectancy, amount of discrimination encountered, etc. in that country?

If you think she is wrong, what do you think is driving her perspective, given that she grew up in Somalia, lived in Europe for many years, and now lives in the US? What do you think she has experienced in the US that led her to these conclusions?

 

[bigfield]

She has not given Europe due consideration, and that is likely coloured by her personal political preferences.

There are plenty of places in the world that are objectively better places to live, regardless of one's sex, race, or sexuality: Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and many European nations score better on multiple metrics regarding quality of life, human development, equality etc.

 

[bilby]

I am neither black, nor a woman, but as somebody who is aware that he is unlikely to remain fit and healthy indefinitely, I am glad I don't live in the USA.

 

[DBT]

What do you think she has experienced in the US that led her to these conclusions?

It's what she hasn't experienced, or considered, that is the problem with her claim.

 

[Axulus]

I am neither black, nor a woman, but as somebody who is aware that he is unlikely to remain fit and healthy indefinitely, I am glad I don't live in the USA.

Do you think your aborginals would fare better in the US? Stories I've seen seem to indicate life isn't very good, and they actually live about 5 years less than American blacks (and a full 10 years less than the rest of Australia). Sounds like being an unfit and unhealthy aborginal in Australia is a situation where they don't get proper care, and they would fare much better in the US.

If you don't think our blacks are a fair comparison, our Native Americans live 4 years longer than your aborginals. Additionally, your aborginals have 3x the unemployment rate of other Australians, while our native americans and blacks are under 2x the rate of the rest or the population.

 

[bilby]

I am neither black, nor a woman, but as somebody who is aware that he is unlikely to remain fit and healthy indefinitely, I am glad I don't live in the USA.

Do you think your aborginals would fare better in the US? Stories I've seen seem to indicate life isn't very good, and they actually live about 5 years less than American blacks (and a full 10 years less than the rest of Australia). Sounds like being an unfit and unhealthy aborginal in Australia is a situation where they don't get proper care, and they would fare much better in the US.

If you don't think our blacks are a fair comparison, our Native Americans life 4 years longer than your aborginals. Additionally, your aborginals have 3x the unemployment rate of other Australians, while our native americans and blacks are under 2x the rate of the rest or the population.

How many Americans (native or otherwise) live more than 1,000km from a hospital? How many live more than 1,000km from a doctor?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

I tend to take things said by Ms. Ali with several grains of salt.

Not to mention comparing the US to other counties doesn't change US history or its consequences. Ms. Ali doesn't live a typical Life in the US, so her commentary on how well black folk or women in the US fare is slanted at best. And it is not like she has a habit of doing or citing research that may disagree with her very profitable story.

 

[Togo]

The idea that Europe is a place where gays are attacked in the streets and no one comes to help them seems a little odd. Particularly considering the treatment they get in the US. I'm not convinced she's done much research to back up her views.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Reminds me of those people who defended the Indiana law by saying that it was better than Irsnian laws. Not really the comparison which needs to be made.

While it's true that the U.S. has them better off than all those places she mentioned, it does exclude all the countries where they're better off. It's like saying a fourth place finisher is the Olympic champion because you ignore all the people who won a medal and just talk about how much slower the 20th place finisher was.

 

[untermensche]

If one is black and speaks the ideas of US neo-cons one can make a good living in the US media.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Listen, this is what I have to say on women’s issues in the United States. We are so blessed as women to live in the United States. The best place to be a woman in the world is in the U.S. The best place to be black in the world is in the U.S. Is it perfect? No. Are we confronted with threats? Yes. But it’s the perfect place to fight [them] off. Because in the U.S., we have—besides the law—the majority of the population who accept that we, as women, have absolutely equal rights to men. The best place to be black in the world is here. I cannot imagine what it is like to be a black man living in Saudi Arabia, in Iran—even where the majority of people are black, like Africa. I cannot imagine a better place to be gay than in the U.S. I know that all European countries have accepted gay marriage and here in the U.S. we’re still struggling to accept that. On the other hand, when the jihadists in Europe attack gays in the streets, the governments don’t protect them. The best place to be Jewish in the world, besides the state of Israel, is in the U.S. The best place to be Christian is in the U.S. I don’t know anything else to say in the U.S. I know we’re in an election cycle and I’m supposed to take sides, but I’m not going to.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/05/ayaan-to-liberals-get-your-priorities-straight.html

What do you guys think? Do you think she is way off base? Are there countries in Europe that are better for blacks? If so, which ones? What does the data demonstrate in regards to their educational attainment, median income, economic mobility, life expectancy, amount of discrimination encountered, etc. in that country?

If you think she is wrong, what do you think is driving her perspective, given that she grew up in Somalia, lived in Europe for many years, and now lives in the US? What do you think she has experienced in the US that led her to these conclusions?

I have a black friend who also is a successful businessman. He´s worked and traveled all over the world. When he got children he moved to Singapore because he thought it was the least racist country in the world. He wanted to expose his kids to as little racism as possible. He thought that Singapore is even less racist toward blacks than the countries of Africa. That´s food for thought.

He formulated a theory based on his personal experience. Trade-hubs are by definition multi-cultural. The more dependent that region is on trade the less racist it is. Time is also a factor. The longer a region has been multi-cultural the less racist it is.

I have no clue if this makes any sense. I´m about as white a European can be. But this guy is a lot smarter than me... so why not? USA has a long history of multi-culturalism, so it would make sense that it is less racist than most other places. The fact that USA elected a mixed race president says plenty. But Hirsi Ali did live many years in Amsterdam. And that´s also been a multi-cultural trade hub for hundreds of years.

 

[lpetrich]

If you think she is wrong, what do you think is driving her perspective, given that she grew up in Somalia, lived in Europe for many years, and now lives in the US? What do you think she has experienced in the US that led her to these conclusions?

Hosts who want to believe that their nation is the absolute best in human achievement, no matter what the evidence otherwise. She has been happy to oblige them, it seems.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

It does seem like a good business decision on her part. A famous foreigner who's willing to say "USA! USA! You're Number One! RAH, RAH, RAH!" would probably be able to cash in on that far better than with a "Yay, Sweden! You rule!" type of presentation.

The latter would probably get her a "Oh, thank you very much. Here's a lovely gift basket in exchange for your kind words" response. The former could very well turn into a "Would $100,000 be enough to have you join a lecture circuit next month?" thing.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What do you guys think? Do you think she is way off base?

Did she go into details about why each European nation and Canada were not as good as the US?

Are there countries in Europe that are better for blacks?

She made the claim, shouldn't she explain why each nation isn't as good as the US?

What does the data demonstrate in regards to their educational attainment, median income, economic mobility, life expectancy, amount of discrimination encountered, etc. in that country?

Interesting, now it is our job to make her argument for her?

If you think she is wrong, what do you think is driving her perspective, given that she grew up in Somalia, lived in Europe for many years,...

Lived in Europe? I wasn't aware Europe was a nation. I'd expect the experience in Europe would vary in Sweden, Ukraine, Italy, and France.

...and now lives in the US? What do you think she has experienced in the US that led her to these conclusions?

I have no clue. Seeing that the article is Q&A and not a research paper looking into the details, it is impossible to tell.

 

[dystopian]

Listen, this is what I have to say on women’s issues in the United States. We are so blessed as women to live in the United States. The best place to be a woman in the world is in the U.S. The best place to be black in the world is in the U.S. Is it perfect? No. Are we confronted with threats? Yes. But it’s the perfect place to fight [them] off. Because in the U.S., we have—besides the law—the majority of the population who accept that we, as women, have absolutely equal rights to men. The best place to be black in the world is here. I cannot imagine what it is like to be a black man living in Saudi Arabia, in Iran—even where the majority of people are black, like Africa. I cannot imagine a better place to be gay than in the U.S. I know that all European countries have accepted gay marriage and here in the U.S. we’re still struggling to accept that. On the other hand, when the jihadists in Europe attack gays in the streets, the governments don’t protect them. The best place to be Jewish in the world, besides the state of Israel, is in the U.S. The best place to be Christian is in the U.S. I don’t know anything else to say in the U.S. I know we’re in an election cycle and I’m supposed to take sides, but I’m not going to.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/05/ayaan-to-liberals-get-your-priorities-straight.html

What do you guys think? Do you think she is way off base? Are there countries in Europe that are better for blacks? If so, which ones? What does the data demonstrate in regards to their educational attainment, median income, economic mobility, life expectancy, amount of discrimination encountered, etc. in that country?

If you think she is wrong, what do you think is driving her perspective, given that she grew up in Somalia, lived in Europe for many years, and now lives in the US? What do you think she has experienced in the US that led her to these conclusions?

She is obviously completely off base. The US does not rank as high on gender equality issues as do certain European countries, including the one she lived for many years. I have to agree with bigfield that her opinion is more than likely colored by her personal political preferences. Her experiences here, notably Theo van Gogh's murder and the political controversy which erupted after it turned out she lied on her asylum application (which she admitted to) are probably to blame for this opinion in part as well.

I can't imagine that living through a political storm where there's parliamentary debates about revoking your citizenship particularly endears you to a country (even though it really was her own fault for lying in the first place). She hasn't had that happen in the US, and she's been paid a lot by neo-con thinktanks whereas as a politician in the Netherlands she wasn't treated to such fees. Is there really any wonder that she personally prefers the US to Europe?

 

[lpetrich]

Are there countries in Europe that are better for blacks? If so, which ones? What does the data demonstrate in regards to their educational attainment, median income, economic mobility, life expectancy, amount of discrimination encountered, etc. in that country?

Axulus, why don't you do that work? Whoever does that will show a superior work ethic, especially if one is willing to accept things that you may not be happy with, like the US not being #1 in every sensible index of human well-being.

 Democracy Index: the US is #19, behind the other Anglo colony nations and the UK itself, other northern European countries, Switzerland, and Uruguay(!)

 List of countries by Fragile States Index: the US is #20 from the bottom (the best place), with most of the aforementioned nations scoring lower than the US.

The Geography of Women's Economic Opportunity - CityLab Several of the aforementioned nations consistently beat the US.

Guess who did all this work.

 

[lpetrich]

Here's more:

 List of countries by Human Development Index: the US is #5, beaten by Norway, Australia, Switzerland, and Holland.

 List of countries by inequality-adjusted HDI: the US is #28, with the usual suspects beating it, and also Japan and some eastern European nations.

 List of countries by Social Progress Index: the US is #18, with several of the usual suspects beating it.


Also, proportional representation is often considered to be a superior way of electing members of legislatures. Though just about anything will beat first past the post in single-member districts, it must be conceded. Most of the highest scorers here have various forms of it in their legislatures. Canada and the UK are the highest scorers that continue to lack it, ahead of the US, which also lacks it.


I suggest that the Americans here study the history of the  Meiji Restoration. By the middle of the 19th cy., Japanese were getting worried how far ahead Europeans and European offshoots were getting. They also noticed how such much of the rest of the world was coming under European domination. In 1852 - 1854 American Commodore Matthew Perry showed up with some warships and demanded trading concessions. It was very evident that Japan was dangerously behind. So some Japanese decided that their nation needed to catch up -- and catch up fast. They supported Emperor Meiji against the shoguns and they imported a lot of Western technology and some Western culture. Not all of it, because they made the Emperor a resident divinity.

It worked. In the Russo-Japanese War of 1905, Japan beat Russia, arguably a European nation. Japan lost WWII, however, but only because of provoking the US into fighting it. Japan continued economic development after that war, becoming a formidable economic power.

So what will make Americans feel like they are doomed unless they catch up? The closest thing I can think of is Sputnik, when the Soviet Union sent a spacecraft into orbit. It wasn't much -- a radio transmitter that continually beeped -- but it was proof of concept.

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

It seems like she was asked a question in an interview on the spot, so I wonder if she means it is literally the best above all others, or if she's just emphatically stating it's a very good place to live compared to many other nations. If this was something prepared, I might expect to see the words 'one of the best' as comparison is difficult, and when you're engaged in conversation, you may not aways pick the most exact phrasing.

If any country even could be deemed the best, I would be surprised to see the United States of America take that crown.

 

[dystopian]

I suggest that the Americans here study the history of the  Meiji Restoration. By the middle of the 19th cy., Japanese were getting worried how far ahead Europeans and European offshoots were getting. They also noticed how such much of the rest of the world was coming under European domination. In 1852 - 1854 American Commodore Matthew Perry showed up with some warships and demanded trading concessions. It was very evident that Japan was dangerously behind. So some Japanese decided that their nation needed to catch up -- and catch up fast. They supported Emperor Meiji against the shoguns and they imported a lot of Western technology and some Western culture. Not all of it, because they made the Emperor a resident divinity.

The Japanese actually didn't really have to catch up in the way some people think they did. They'd always known the enormous importance of western science, and this was one of the key things they traded for back when we were the only westerners allowed to trade with them. From the 17th century on they were well aware of what sort of advances were made in western science, and they were very keen on trading for it because even though they didn't adopt it en masse they knew they needed to know about it. Through the system of Rangaku (Dutch Learning), they managed to restrict cultural and political domination by the west while simultaneously building the scientific base required to very quickly build up their own industry and technology once they did start modernizing: their intellectual elite already had the requisite knowledge to modernize without begging for scraps and instruction from the west (of course, getting western aid/instruction did help speed up the process even more). Just two years after Perry they'd already built their first three oceangoing ships in western style based on nothing more than Dutch technical drawings, and pretty soon they were building steam warships without any help. They were pretty smart, if you look at the grand history of the world. Japan's one of less than half a dozen or so countries that managed to not be conquered or dominated by the western colonial powers.

Of course, none of this really has anything to do with the OP; I don't think the US is in any immediate danger of falling behind on either science or progressive issues on the kind of scale the non-western powers historically were in comparison to Europe. The US *is* a pretty good place to be for either a minority or a woman, and getting better and better... it's just not *the* best and not likely to be the best any time soon.

 

[lpetrich]

Map: European colonialism conquered every country in the world but these five - Vox

There are only four countries that escaped European colonialism completely. Japan and Korea successfully staved off European domination, in part due to their strength and diplomacy, their isolationist policies, and perhaps their distance. Thailand was spared when the British and French Empires decided to let it remained independent as a buffer between British-controlled Burma and French Indochina. Japan, however, colonized both Korea and Thailand itself during its early-20th-century imperial period.

Then there is Liberia, which European powers spared because the United States backed the Liberian state, which was established in the early 1800s by freed American slaves who had decided to move to Africa. The Liberian project was fraught — the Americans who moved there ruled as a privileged minority, and the US and European powers shipped former slaves there rather than actually account for their enslavement — but it escaped European domination.