Jim Jones, Marxist, Atheist

[fromderinside]

Jim Jones should be left in the dust bins of history. He ordered a congressman to be killed!

Well, he did do some bad things as well.

I didn't expect you to get caught in my Jones trap. You must be partial to contrary cheese.

 

[arkirk]

I believe the largest mass murder in recent history was the bombing in Vietnam and Cambodia done by the US.

Millions killed.

Unless you are suggesting that Vietnam and Cambodia asked for it, that doesn't fall under the suicide category.

He said MASS MURDER. One narcissist is easily as bad as the other.... Our national leadership has kept us under the nuclear threat and at the same time kept us killing in foreign lands for far too long. Whenever they get challenged on their war mongering, they just wave a flag in your face and we of course are required to take our hats off and genuflect. We are shamed for not respecting the sacrifices of our brave boys here, there, everywhere but we never challenge the people who mandate those unnecessary sacrifices. But Obama is changing all that with his drones. They do not require flag draped coffins. Obama has killed more innocent people with drones than Jim Jones killed with cool aide. In the case of Obama's international intervention, those who drink the cool aide just pay for others to be killed. Things are changing. Cool aide is no longer IMMEDIATELY FATAL.

 

[Starman]

Dear North Hollywood arkirk,

Why don't you travel to those nasty war-making countries such as, oh, Syria, and Yemen, and Iraq and practice your
pacifist sophistry with them. See how far it gets you toward your Kumbaya World.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. - George Orwell

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Unless you are suggesting that Vietnam and Cambodia asked for it, that doesn't fall under the suicide category.

He said MASS MURDER.

If mass murder is the key, then Jones is an amateur.

One narcissist is easily as bad as the other.... Our national leadership has kept us under the nuclear threat and at the same time kept us killing in foreign lands for far too long. Whenever they get challenged on their war mongering, they just wave a flag in your face and we of course are required to take our hats off and genuflect. We are shamed for not respecting the sacrifices of our brave boys here, there, everywhere but we never challenge the people who mandate those unnecessary sacrifices. But Obama is changing all that with his drones. They do not require flag draped coffins. Obama has killed more innocent people with drones than Jim Jones killed with cool aide.

Jesus fucking christ! Enough! I've had enough of this shit. It was Flavoraid! God damn it!

More to the point, yes, American foreign policy has screwed up. It screwed so much that 9/11 was a result... which coincidentally was followed up by more bad foreign policy decisions causing the deaths of lots and lots of people. But this thread is about Jones and how his actions allegedly reflect on Social Democrats or Atheists.

 

[funinspace]

Rhymes with Saturn

He said MASS MURDER.

If mass murder is the key, then Jones is an amateur.

One narcissist is easily as bad as the other.... Our national leadership has kept us under the nuclear threat and at the same time kept us killing in foreign lands for far too long. Whenever they get challenged on their war mongering, they just wave a flag in your face and we of course are required to take our hats off and genuflect. We are shamed for not respecting the sacrifices of our brave boys here, there, everywhere but we never challenge the people who mandate those unnecessary sacrifices. But Obama is changing all that with his drones. They do not require flag draped coffins. Obama has killed more innocent people with drones than Jim Jones killed with cool aide.

Jesus fucking christ! Enough! I've had enough of this shit. It was Flavoraid! God damn it!

More to the point, yes, American foreign policy has screwed up. It screwed so much that 9/11 was a result... which coincidentally was followed up by more bad foreign policy decisions causing the deaths of lots and lots of people. But this thread is about Jones and how his actions allegedly reflect on Social Democrats or Atheists.

Well I read that Jim Jones was gay...and he also made false teeth.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Dear North Hollywood arkirk,

Why don't you travel to those nasty war-making countries such as, oh, Syria, and Yemen, and Iraq and practice your
pacifist sophistry with them. See how far it gets you toward your Kumbaya World.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. - George Orwell

What's your military service, Starman?

One of the things i was doing at night, while akirk slept in his bed, was to defend his right to express himself, even if that expression was not complimentary to the military industrial complex in which i now find employment. And, really, asking our government for a few less unnecessary wars or not as many innocent deaths isn't quite a kumbaya world. It's just asking for sanity.

How much time have you spent on the wall?

 

[funinspace]

Dear North Hollywood arkirk,

Why don't you travel to those nasty war-making countries such as, oh, Syria, and Yemen, and Iraq and practice your
pacifist sophistry with them. See how far it gets you toward your Kumbaya World.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. - George Orwell

What's your military service, Starman?

One of the things i was doing at night, while akirk slept in his bed, was to defend his right to express himself, even if that expression was not complimentary to the military industrial complex in which i now find employment. And, really, asking our government for a few less unnecessary wars or not as many innocent deaths isn't quite a kumbaya world. It's just asking for sanity.

How much time have you spent on the wall?

Yes, those rough drone warriors doing their violence on our* behalf


*our - used loosely as I never asked for it.

BTW, does my civi years bobbing up-n-down in the great blue on those sleepy CVNs count? I would have taken a Nevada air base over the waters near Pascagoula, Mayport, San Diego, Diego Garcia, Norfolk, et.al. LOL

 

[Keith&Co.]

View attachment 3020

Oh, that poor BASTARD!
Six screens of data he's responsible for!

We had thirty seven, but at least you only had to review one at a time.

And, yes, they count. If nothing else, you might have been shot at if the balloon went up.

 

[Frikki]

Dear North Hollywood arkirk,

Why don't you travel to those nasty war-making countries such as, oh, Syria, and Yemen, and Iraq and practice your
pacifist sophistry with them. See how far it gets you toward your Kumbaya World.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. - George Orwell

That is a bullshit quote.

 

[funinspace]

Six screens of data he's responsible for!

We had thirty seven, but at least you only had to review one at a time.

Yeah, and probably no constant vibration/humming, no dim lighting, chilly air, forcing one to fight off falling asleep. Hum...never counted the Q-70's et.al. in a CIC.

 

[krypton iodine sulfur]

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. - George Orwell

I'm pretty sure that is not actually an Orwell quote. It's also not true in my case. I sleep peaceably because I live in a country with ample resources, plenty of space and a relatively small population which has a decent constitution and relatively liberal laws and progressive politics (though there is certainly room for improvement). We are not a superpower which others find intimidating, and while some extremists groups don't like us, we're not a high priority target and experience almost no terrorist violence. Shitty drivers are a bigger threat than suicide bombers or fanatical gunmen. We have only one neighbour by land which has marginal motive to launch a military assault. Most nations would struggle launching an overseas invasion, and those which could afford it would probably jeopardize economic relationships with an unprovoked and unjustified attack.

While I don't think our 'rough men [and women]' do nothing to help keep the peace, in all likelihood the people who pick up my garbage and maintain our sewer systems probably do a lot more for my well being as we'd probably all die of disease if our urban centres were left to wallow in our own filth.

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

I can't believe the National Review got such a good scoop on a story that's only 38 years old.

aa

 

[arkirk]

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. - George Orwell

I'm pretty sure that is not actually an Orwell quote. It's also not true in my case. I sleep peaceably because I live in a country with ample resources, plenty of space and a relatively small population which has a decent constitution and relatively liberal laws and progressive politics (though there is certainly room for improvement). We are not a superpower which others find intimidating, and while some extremists groups don't like us, we're not a high priority target and experience almost no terrorist violence. Shitty drivers are a bigger threat than suicide bombers or fanatical gunmen. We have only one neighbour by land which has marginal motive to launch a military assault. Most nations would struggle launching an overseas invasion, and those which could afford it would probably jeopardize economic relationships with an unprovoked and unjustified attack.

While I don't think our 'rough men [and women]' do nothing to help keep the peace, in all likelihood the people who pick up my garbage and maintain our sewer systems probably do a lot more for my well being as we'd probably all die of disease if our urban centres were left to wallow in our own filth.

People sleep best if there are not drones circling overhead deciding just which target to take out. I got quite a chuckle out of the "rough men" quote. It may have come to Starman over his telescreen.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Admirer of Chairman Mao, Jim Jones was responsible for the largest mass murder/suicide in history, 909 people.
His was not a religious cult at all. It was atheist Marxism, masquerading as Christianity.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/377369/unburied-truth-about-jim-jones-j-delgado

You really think the National Review is useful as a source about a religious issue??

 

[bilby]

Dear North Hollywood arkirk,

Why don't you travel to those nasty war-making countries such as, oh, Syria, and Yemen, and Iraq and practice your
pacifist sophistry with them. See how far it gets you toward your Kumbaya World.

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. - George Orwell

That is a bullshit quote.

Indeed it is.

What Orwell actually said was:

"Those who 'abjure' violence can do so only because others are committing violence on their behalf".

and also:

"... men can be highly civilized only while other men, inevitably less civilized, are there to guard and feed them".

According to wikiquote (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/List_of_misquotations):

"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us."

• Alternative: "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
• Alternative: "We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."

Commonly misattributed to George Orwell without citation. Sometimes also misattributed to Winston Churchill without citation.

Actual source: Quote Investigator found the earliest known appearance in a 1993 Washington Times essay by Richard Grenier: "As George Orwell pointed out, people sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." The absence of quotation marks indicates that Grenier was using his own words to convey his interpretation of Orwell's opinion, as seen in citations below.

• In his 1945 "Notes on Nationalism", Orwell wrote that pacifists cannot accept the statement "Those who 'abjure' violence can do so only because others are committing violence on their behalf.", despite it being "grossly obvious.""Notes on Nationalism"
• In an essay on Rudyard Kipling, Orwell cited Kipling's phrase "making mock of uniforms that guard you while you sleep" (Kipling, Tommy), and further noted that Kipling's "grasp of function, of who protects whom, is very sound. He sees clearly that men can be highly civilized only while other men, inevitably less civilized, are there to guard and feed them." (1942)

 

[Keith&Co.]

The absence of quotation marks indicates that Grenier was using his own words to convey his interpretation of Orwell's opinion, as seen in citations below.

OOoooh. He paraphrased Orwell...

 

[Starman]

What Orwell actually said was:


"... men can be highly civilized only while other men, inevitably less civilized, are there to guard and feed them".

Equivalent, if not better. Orwell's words are a slap in the face to the cowardice of pacifism.

"Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other." - George Orwell

 

[bilby]

What Orwell actually said was:


"... men can be highly civilized only while other men, inevitably less civilized, are there to guard and feed them".

Equivalent, if not better. Orwell's words are a slap in the face to the cowardice of pacifism.

"Pacifism is objectively pro-fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other." - George Orwell

Well given the global situation in 1942, when he said that, he was undoubtedly correct. However it is far from clear that Fascism is today the threat that it once was; certainly it is far less of a threat than it was in 1942.

As L P Hartley might have advised G W Bush, "The past is a foreign country. We should invade and impose a democratic regime change on it".

Pacifism is unsupportable in a nation that is defending itself against an active military threat from a foreign power, as England was in 1942; However in a nation that does not face such a threat, or one which is actively aggressive against other nations, it may be a truly heroic position to take. Pacifists in London in the 1940s who refused to fight Hitler can be accused of helping the fascists; but pacifists in Berlin at that time can reasonably be regarded as heroic.

The idea that there is one unchanging right answer to a complex question, that is always correct regardless of context, is incredibly stupid; as is the logical inference from that idea - that quotes from historical figures that were true and noble at the time and place that they were first spoken, are necessarily still applicable in the here and now.

 

[Horatio Parker]

Orwell volunteered against Franco.

"Homage to Catalonia" is an interesting read.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Bill Mauldin said, "Nothing makes you a pacifist faster than joining the infantry."