Switzerland Might Pay All Citizens a 2,500 Franc Basic Income Every Month Read more: Switzerland Might Pay All Citizens a 2,500 Franc Basic Income Ev

[RavenSky]

While the battle continues in the US for a slightly higher minimum wage, the Swiss are exploring drastic methods to create a fair economy. One proposed method would provide a guaranteed 2,500 franc income to all citizens, regardless of whether or not they are employed. And if that doesn’t get the job done, a vote on May 18th could decide whether the Swiss will implement the world’s highest minimum wage of nearly $25 an hour. Both referendums come on the heels of unrest in Switzerland over income inequality.

Read more: Switzerland Might Pay All Citizens a 2,500 Franc Basic Income Every Month | Inhabitat - Sustainable Design Innovation, Eco Architecture, Green Building

 

[Axulus]

While the battle continues in the US for a slightly higher minimum wage, the Swiss are exploring drastic methods to create a fair economy. One proposed method would provide a guaranteed 2,500 franc income to all citizens, regardless of whether or not they are employed. And if that doesn’t get the job done, a vote on May 18th could decide whether the Swiss will implement the world’s highest minimum wage of nearly $25 an hour. Both referendums come on the heels of unrest in Switzerland over income inequality.

Read more: Switzerland Might Pay All Citizens a 2,500 Franc Basic Income Every Month | Inhabitat - Sustainable Design Innovation, Eco Architecture, Green Building

They already voted this down:

Swiss Voters Defeat $24.65 Minimum Wage by a Wide Margin:

The proposed rate — considerably higher than elsewhere in Europe and more than double the $10.10 President Obama has sought in the United States — found little support in a national referendum, with 76.3 percent opposed, according to initial results released by the government.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/19/b...wiss-defeat-minimum-wage-by-large-margin.html

Edit: looks like the guaranteed income is still to be voted on in 2016:

http://www.basicincome.org/news/2014/08/switerland-government-reacts-negatively-to-ubi-proposal/

 

[untermensche]

The US government is controlled by business interests.

There, the population is something to exploit and profit from. A means for the rich to get richer, without lifting a finger.

And we see what a menagerie of candidates we get to run the show for business interests.

They of course have to fool a lot of people first. But the corporate media is more than happy to help.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, because fooling Americans is something you really need to work at.

 

[Axulus]

At current exchange rate, 2,500 Swiss Franc = ~$2,650 USD

This is $31,800/year, which is equal to 37.4% of GDP

Switzerland currently spends approx 34% of GDP

According to their government financial statement, social welfare spending makes up 1/3 of their budget:

http://www.efv.admin.ch/e/downloads/oeff_finanzen/Taschenstatistik_2014_e_web.pdf

Thus, non social welfare spending is approximately 22% of their GDP

Thus, if we imagine all social welfare spending was replaced by the guaranteed basic income, government spending would have to equal about 60% of GDP if the other categories of spending stayed the same.

Their current tax revenues are 28.5% of GDP. They would have to double tax revenues to fund this additional spending. And even then, this only holds if doubling tax revenue has no impact on GDP (which is contradicted by all the empirical evidence).

This would put their government spending and tax burden at the highest in the developed world.

 

[untermensche]

Ya, because fooling Americans is something you really need to work at.

If we had a media, at least the news outlets, that cared more about education than profits we might see a different kind of American.

It used to be that the entertainment paid for the news. The news didn't care about profits or crow about ratings.

But the corporate mentality pollutes everything eventually.

 

[Axulus]

Ya, because fooling Americans is something you really need to work at.

If we had a media, at least the news outlets, that cared more about education than profits we might see a different kind of American.

It used to be that the entertainment paid for the news. The news didn't care about profits or crow about ratings.

But the corporate mentality pollutes everything eventually.

You mean if Americans cared more about education than entertainment, we'd see a different kind of media.

 

[untermensche]

If we had a media, at least the news outlets, that cared more about education than profits we might see a different kind of American.

It used to be that the entertainment paid for the news. The news didn't care about profits or crow about ratings.

But the corporate mentality pollutes everything eventually.

You mean if Americans cared more about education than entertainment, we'd see a different kind of media.

I think it was Gore Vidal who said he never met a stupid eight year old, but by the time they are 20 many are very stupid.

People are mis-educated by the media, especially the news. That is why so many young people seek their news from people like Jon Stewart.

As I said, the corporate mentality pollutes everything eventually.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

The US government is controlled by business interests.

There, the population is something to exploit and profit from. A means for the rich to get richer, without lifting a finger.

And we see what a menagerie of candidates we get to run the show for business interests.

They of course have to fool a lot of people first. But the corporate media is more than happy to help.

And it is going to get worse. McConnel isn't just not filling judicial positions because Obama is Black, the big monied want judges not to rule on the merits of the cases, but in their favor. They will keep filling the coffers of the candidates that protect their interests.

 

[Axulus]

The US government is controlled by business interests.

There, the population is something to exploit and profit from. A means for the rich to get richer, without lifting a finger.

And we see what a menagerie of candidates we get to run the show for business interests.

They of course have to fool a lot of people first. But the corporate media is more than happy to help.

And it is going to get worse. McConnel isn't just not filling judicial positions because Obama is Black, the big monied want judges not to rule on the merits of the cases, but in their favor. They will keep filling the coffers of the candidates that protect their interests.

If that is true, then why did the money that went to candidates decline in the last election?

 

[untermensche]

The US government is controlled by business interests.

There, the population is something to exploit and profit from. A means for the rich to get richer, without lifting a finger.

And we see what a menagerie of candidates we get to run the show for business interests.

They of course have to fool a lot of people first. But the corporate media is more than happy to help.

And it is going to get worse. McConnel isn't just not filling judicial positions because Obama is Black, the big monied want judges not to rule on the merits of the cases, but in their favor. They will keep filling the coffers of the candidates that protect their interests.

The Supreme Court is pretty much the Court for business interests over consumer and environmental interests, and the Court fully in support of US imperialism overseas, at least the current majority.

- - - Updated - - -

And it is going to get worse. McConnel isn't just not filling judicial positions because Obama is Black, the big monied want judges not to rule on the merits of the cases, but in their favor. They will keep filling the coffers of the candidates that protect their interests.

If that is true, then why has the money that has been going into the coffers for candidates been in the decline over the last two elections?

The last presidential election set records for spending.

 

[Axulus]

And it is going to get worse. McConnel isn't just not filling judicial positions because Obama is Black, the big monied want judges not to rule on the merits of the cases, but in their favor. They will keep filling the coffers of the candidates that protect their interests.

The Supreme Court is pretty much the Court for business interests over consumer and environmental interests, and the Court fully in support of US imperialism overseas, at least the current majority.

- - - Updated - - -

And it is going to get worse. McConnel isn't just not filling judicial positions because Obama is Black, the big monied want judges not to rule on the merits of the cases, but in their favor. They will keep filling the coffers of the candidates that protect their interests.

If that is true, then why has the money that has been going into the coffers for candidates been in the decline over the last two elections?

The last presidential election set records for spending.

The money that was involved in the 2008 presidental race was $2,799,728,146

The 2012 presidential race was $2,621,415,792

https://www.opensecrets.org/bigpicture/

2014 money spent (congressional): $3,769,652,999

2012 money spent (congressional): $3,664,141,430

2010 money spent (congressional): $3,631,712,836

Inflation from Nov 2010 through Nov 2014: 7.9% (based on CPI)

2014 money spent, adjusted for inflation (2010 dollars): $3,493,540,000

Inflation from Nov 2010 through Nov 2012: 5.2% (based on CPI)

2012 money spent, adjusted for inflation - congressional (2010 dollars): $3,483,024,000

When adjusting for inflation, there is a slight uptick between 2014 vs. 2012, but the uptick is tiny (.3%)

My original statement wasn't completely accurate, but it was close (and still demonstrates a decline from 2010).

 

[whichphilosophy]

The cost of living in Switzerland is exceptionally high when I visited there in the past. 2,300 Francs looks comfortable as a low income but is very basic.

 

[untermensche]

The Supreme Court is pretty much the Court for business interests over consumer and environmental interests, and the Court fully in support of US imperialism overseas, at least the current majority.

- - - Updated - - -

And it is going to get worse. McConnel isn't just not filling judicial positions because Obama is Black, the big monied want judges not to rule on the merits of the cases, but in their favor. They will keep filling the coffers of the candidates that protect their interests.

If that is true, then why has the money that has been going into the coffers for candidates been in the decline over the last two elections?

The last presidential election set records for spending.

The money that was involved in the 2008 presidental race was $2,799,728,146

The 2012 presidential race was $2,621,415,792

https://www.opensecrets.org/bigpicture/

2014 money spent (congressional): $3,769,652,999

2012 money spent (congressional): $3,664,141,430

2010 money spent (congressional): $3,631,712,836

Inflation from Nov 2010 through Nov 2014: 7.9% (based on CPI)

2014 money spent, adjusted for inflation (2010 dollars): $3,493,540,000

Inflation from Nov 2010 through Nov 2012: 5.2% (based on CPI)

2012 money spent, adjusted for inflation - congressional (2010 dollars): $3,483,024,000

When adjusting for inflation, there is a slight uptick between 2014 vs. 2012, but the uptick is tiny (.3%)

My original statement wasn't completely accurate, but it was close (and still demonstrates a decline from 2010).

There are really only two people running for president. Unless some billionaire like Perot decides to run.

In 2012 Obama and Romney spent more than Obama and McCain spent in 2008.

You can use the very website you referenced to check this.

 

[RavenSky]

The cost of living in Switzerland is exceptionally high when I visited there in the past. 2,300 Francs looks comfortable as a low income but is very basic.

Agree.

And it is because the cost of living is so high that they were considering this

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I think it was Gore Vidal who said he never met a stupid eight year old, but by the time they are 20 many are very stupid.

Clearly, Gore Vidal hadn't met many eight year olds. I have an eight year old son and a lot of friends are really fucking stupid.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

At current exchange rate, 2,500 Swiss Franc = ~$2,650 USD

This is $31,800/year, which is equal to 37.4% of GDP

Switzerland currently spends approx 34% of GDP

According to their government financial statement, social welfare spending makes up 1/3 of their budget:

http://www.efv.admin.ch/e/downloads/oeff_finanzen/Taschenstatistik_2014_e_web.pdf

Thus, non social welfare spending is approximately 22% of their GDP

Thus, if we imagine all social welfare spending was replaced by the guaranteed basic income, government spending would have to equal about 60% of GDP if the other categories of spending stayed the same.

Their current tax revenues are 28.5% of GDP. They would have to double tax revenues to fund this additional spending. And even then, this only holds if doubling tax revenue has no impact on GDP (which is contradicted by all the empirical evidence).

This would put their government spending and tax burden at the highest in the developed world.

Yeah. In the long run I think a basic income system is the right answer. As your numbers show we aren't ready for it, though.

 

[Axulus]

At current exchange rate, 2,500 Swiss Franc = ~$2,650 USD

This is $31,800/year, which is equal to 37.4% of GDP

Switzerland currently spends approx 34% of GDP

According to their government financial statement, social welfare spending makes up 1/3 of their budget:

http://www.efv.admin.ch/e/downloads/oeff_finanzen/Taschenstatistik_2014_e_web.pdf

Thus, non social welfare spending is approximately 22% of their GDP

Thus, if we imagine all social welfare spending was replaced by the guaranteed basic income, government spending would have to equal about 60% of GDP if the other categories of spending stayed the same.

Their current tax revenues are 28.5% of GDP. They would have to double tax revenues to fund this additional spending. And even then, this only holds if doubling tax revenue has no impact on GDP (which is contradicted by all the empirical evidence).

This would put their government spending and tax burden at the highest in the developed world.

Yeah. In the long run I think a basic income system is the right answer. As your numbers show we aren't ready for it, though.

I don't even really understand the moral argument why a bunch of lucky Swiss citizens (by luck of birth) should all be guaranteed a comfortable standard of living instead of one that may be a little bit more of a struggle where they have to earn the comfortable standard of living themselves while there are about two billion people out there who scrape by on less than $2.00 per day.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Yeah. In the long run I think a basic income system is the right answer. As your numbers show we aren't ready for it, though.

I don't even really understand the moral argument why a bunch of lucky Swiss citizens (by luck of birth) should all be guaranteed a comfortable standard of living instead of one that may be a little bit more of a struggle where they have to earn the comfortable standard of living themselves while there are about two billion people out there who scrape by on less than $2.00 per day.

Why should they feel responsible for the failure of others. Nigeria by all accounts should be one of the richest places on earth but the opposite is true. Another issue is that in countries like India, there are impressive amounts of money floating around but this remains in the pockets of a few. Workers are paid next to nothing, so money is not circulated into the economy creating more jobs.

 

[Axulus]

I don't even really understand the moral argument why a bunch of lucky Swiss citizens (by luck of birth) should all be guaranteed a comfortable standard of living instead of one that may be a little bit more of a struggle where they have to earn the comfortable standard of living themselves while there are about two billion people out there who scrape by on less than $2.00 per day.

Why should they feel responsible for the failure of others. Nigeria by all accounts should be one of the richest places on earth but the opposite is true. Another issue is that in countries like India, there are impressive amounts of money floating around but this remains in the pockets of a few. Workers are paid next to nothing, so money is not circulated into the economy creating more jobs.

How is any of what you describe the fault of those who happen to be born in such conditions?

By the same argument, why should the Swiss feel responsible for those who happen to be in poverty in their own country despite all the luck of being born in Switzerland, where they have one of the best odds of a middle class life compared to anywhere else in the world? Make sure they don't starve and are living on the street, sure, but that doesn't take 2,500 francs/month to accomplish. In fact, they are already accomplishing that criteria quite well as is.