Two conservative professors balk at a conservative policy that might effect them personally

[ksen]

http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...onservatives-like-us-119341.html#.VYrBYSJRGUk

At the same time, we acknowledge that academics, to say the very least, are no more deserving of tenure-style job security than anyone else. In a world governed by the unprecedented economic forces of globalization and change, fewer and fewer Americans enjoy supportive job protections, which is why many of our fellow citizens construe tenure as an undeserved sinecure. We do not believe tenure is a “right” as some critics of the budget bill proposal have claimed.

Instead, the right at stake is academic freedom, which requires the honest and fearless pursuit of truth that lies at the heart of universities’ moral charter. Outnumbered and often targeted for our beliefs by members of the campus left, constitutional conservatives like us—who take individual liberty, freedom of speech and academic freedom very seriously—have long relied on tenure to protect our right to dissent and to preserve the free exchange of ideas in academia.

It's too bad these guys don't get this concerned about other conservative policies which cost other people their jobs and livelihoods.

The phrase "hoist by your own petard" comes to mind.

 

[Toni]

http://www.politico.com/magazine/st...onservatives-like-us-119341.html#.VYrBYSJRGUk

At the same time, we acknowledge that academics, to say the very least, are no more deserving of tenure-style job security than anyone else. In a world governed by the unprecedented economic forces of globalization and change, fewer and fewer Americans enjoy supportive job protections, which is why many of our fellow citizens construe tenure as an undeserved sinecure. We do not believe tenure is a “right” as some critics of the budget bill proposal have claimed.

Instead, the right at stake is academic freedom, which requires the honest and fearless pursuit of truth that lies at the heart of universities’ moral charter. Outnumbered and often targeted for our beliefs by members of the campus left, constitutional conservatives like us—who take individual liberty, freedom of speech and academic freedom very seriously—have long relied on tenure to protect our right to dissent and to preserve the free exchange of ideas in academia.

It's too bad these guys don't get this concerned about other conservative policies which cost other people their jobs and livelihoods.

The phrase "hoist by your own petard" comes to mind.

I am not certain i agree with your conclusions. In fact, the requirement of the ability to pursue the truth is the basis got the need for tenure. Despite popular perception, tenure does not protect academics from being fired. I know of more than one at just the small university in my town who was fired for cause.

It is true that some lazy administrators are happy to pretend that tenure prevents them from dismissing a professor who fails to meet the standards and conditions of employment but the real issue is administration wishing to arbitrarily dismiss those they find inconvenient and to reward those who do their bidding instead of following a legal contract that outlines the terms and conditions of employment.

I am not sure that these academics are being inconsistent.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I am not sure that these academics are being inconsistent.

Hold on a second. So, you're saying that when some conservatives are arguing about how regulations and policies that they're philosophically in favour of in general but that shouldn't apply to them personally are being inconsistent in their reasonings as to why?

That's not something I can believe.

 

[ksen]

I am not sure that these academics are being inconsistent.

That's ok, I'm sure.

 

[laughing dog]

The OP reminds me of the story of the woman who takes care of a frozen snake.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I am not certain i agree with your conclusions. In fact, the requirement of the ability to pursue the truth is the basis got the need for tenure. Despite popular perception, tenure does not protect academics from being fired. I know of more than one at just the small university in my town who was fired for cause.

It is true that some lazy administrators are happy to pretend that tenure prevents them from dismissing a professor who fails to meet the standards and conditions of employment but the real issue is administration wishing to arbitrarily dismiss those they find inconvenient and to reward those who do their bidding instead of following a legal contract that outlines the terms and conditions of employment.

I am not sure that these academics are being inconsistent.

The problem is the bar for cause is so high. I've seen too many teachers that should have been given a swift kick out the door.

 

[Toni]

I am not certain i agree with your conclusions. In fact, the requirement of the ability to pursue the truth is the basis got the need for tenure. Despite popular perception, tenure does not protect academics from being fired. I know of more than one at just the small university in my town who was fired for cause.

It is true that some lazy administrators are happy to pretend that tenure prevents them from dismissing a professor who fails to meet the standards and conditions of employment but the real issue is administration wishing to arbitrarily dismiss those they find inconvenient and to reward those who do their bidding instead of following a legal contract that outlines the terms and conditions of employment.

I am not sure that these academics are being inconsistent.

The problem is the bar for cause is so high. I've seen too many teachers that should have been given a swift kick out the door.

I have as well. The real problem in the cases I know about is that administration was unwilling to actually document incidents and follow the contract. I've seen some attempts to fire people for non-fire-able 'offenses' while admin was ignoring the real issues of competence, behavior, performance. It was really frustrating to watch, and infuriating when admin would whine that 'the union' won't let us when admin would not do their job documenting just cause.

I don't work in academia but I can say with confidence that an unwillingness to do something because it is hard or unpleasant or means following the rules is not limited to academia.

I have had to fire people for cause. It isn't pleasant but in those cases was pretty easy to document and I had the backing of higher ups.

 

[beero1000]

Wait, there are TWO conservative professors now? What is happening to the world?

 

[laughing dog]

The problem is the bar for cause is so high. I've seen too many teachers that should have been given a swift kick out the door.

The OP is about university and college professors. What proportion of those people have you personally judged to be given a swift kick out of the door?

My university is an union shop with contractual protections, and yet, tenured faculty get fired. All it takes is some effort and a bit of intelligence on the part of the administration - two characteristics that most administrators lack.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The problem is the bar for cause is so high. I've seen too many teachers that should have been given a swift kick out the door.

The OP is about university and college professors. What proportion of those people have you personally judged to be given a swift kick out of the door?

My university is an union shop with contractual protections, and yet, tenured faculty get fired. All it takes is some effort and a bit of intelligence on the part of the administration - two characteristics that most administrators lack.

The worst offender--a teacher who spoke with such an accent that some of us simply couldn't follow him. To add to this he was stumped by a simple question that anyone who had completed their first year should have been able to answer easily--and this was a 400-level course. (I'm sure the student who was asking it was doing so because they were lost, not because they didn't actually know the answer.) To compound it he was often wrong. It's darn hard to "correctly" answer a "prove <x>" question when you know <x> to be false.

Second worse, a lecture hall with over 400 students. The lectures were worthless, he rambled on and on about things that had nothing to do with the class material. The low point on attendance that I was aware of was 8 students who showed up.

 

[laughing dog]

The OP is about university and college professors. What proportion of those people have you personally judged to be given a swift kick out of the door?

My university is an union shop with contractual protections, and yet, tenured faculty get fired. All it takes is some effort and a bit of intelligence on the part of the administration - two characteristics that most administrators lack.

The worst offender--a teacher who spoke with such an accent that some of us simply couldn't follow him. To add to this he was stumped by a simple question that anyone who had completed their first year should have been able to answer easily--and this was a 400-level course. (I'm sure the student who was asking it was doing so because they were lost, not because they didn't actually know the answer.) To compound it he was often wrong. It's darn hard to "correctly" answer a "prove <x>" question when you know <x> to be false.

Second worse, a lecture hall with over 400 students. The lectures were worthless, he rambled on and on about things that had nothing to do with the class material. The low point on attendance that I was aware of was 8 students who showed up.

Thank you for anecdotes, but they didn't answer my question.

 

[BH]

Instead, the right at stake is academic freedom, which requires the honest and fearless pursuit of truth that lies at the heart of universities’ moral charter. Outnumbered and often targeted for our beliefs by members of the campus left, constitutional conservatives like us—who take individual liberty, freedom of speech and academic freedom very seriously—have long relied on tenure to protect our right to dissent and to preserve the free exchange of ideas in academia.

But your beliefs have no market value.