Harvard university police declare that 18% of reported rapes are false or baseless

[Axulus]

Of the 33 reported rapes in 2014, six were classified as “unfounded,” which the report defines as “any report of a crime that is found to be false or baseless” after an investigation by law enforcement.

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2015/10/2/reported-rapes-nearly-doubles/

Can you understand now why some of us don't automatically accept a rape claim as true? We still need to have actual standards of evidence to make sure the accused's life isn't wrongfully ruined. Those who automatically accept the rape as true tarnish the reputation and devastate life of the accused. Sure, you may be in the right 82% of the time, but your lack of caution is creating 18% additional victims. That's on you.

Also, worthy of mention:

Harvard has a student population of 21,000. Thirty-three reported rapes, even if all of them were 100 percent true, is 0.15 percent of the student population — far from the constant claims of one-in-five.

Even if you accept the idea that just 20 percent of women report their rapes, and adjust accordingly, that would still be only 0.78 percent of the student population experiencing a rape, which is much more in line with federal statistics.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/study-1-in-5-campus-rape-reports-are-false/article/2573324

This quote didn't seem to take into account that the entire student population isn't made up of women. If all the reported rapes are women, and since approx 50% of the population is women, then that would be 1.58% of the population experiencing a rape, or 6% over the course of 4 years. Definitely a problem worth addressing, but you actually get people to dismiss such a worthy problem worth addressing by making bogus claims such as "1 in 5 women experience sexual assault while in college".

 

[laughing dog]

In order to make sense of your OP, we need to know what happened in the 27 "founded" cases of rape and in the 6 "unfounded" cases to the alleged perp.

Also interesting from the same article

That survey also revealed students’ lack of confidence in and knowledge of Harvard’s reporting system for cases of sexual harassment and assault. Eighty percent of female College students who reported having experienced nonconsensual penetration by incapacitation, and 69 percent of those who experienced penetration by force, did not file a formal report, according to a report on the survey by former provost Steven E. Hyman

 

[whichphilosophy]

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2015/10/2/reported-rapes-nearly-doubles/

Can you understand now why some of us don't automatically accept a rape claim as true? We still need to have actual standards of evidence to make sure the accused's life isn't wrongfully ruined. Those who automatically accept the rape as true tarnish the reputation and devastate life of the accused. Sure, you may be in the right 82% of the time, but your lack of caution is creating 18% additional victims. That's on you.

Also, worthy of mention:

Harvard has a student population of 21,000. Thirty-three reported rapes, even if all of them were 100 percent true, is 0.15 percent of the student population — far from the constant claims of one-in-five.

Even if you accept the idea that just 20 percent of women report their rapes, and adjust accordingly, that would still be only 0.78 percent of the student population experiencing a rape, which is much more in line with federal statistics.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/study-1-in-5-campus-rape-reports-are-false/article/2573324

This quote didn't seem to take into account that the entire student population isn't made up of women. If all the reported rapes are women, and since approx 50% of the population is women, then that would be 1.58% of the population experiencing a rape, or 6% over the course of 4 years. Definitely a problem worth addressing, but you actually get people to dismiss such a worthy problem worth addressing by making bogus claims such as "1 in 5 women experience sexual assault while in college".

A rape claim is not considered true until due process has been applied.

If 6 claims out of 27 are unfounded it suggests the other 21 could have a basis to explore. You will find most women never report sexual assault and many never report rapes.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2015/10/2/reported-rapes-nearly-doubles/

Can you understand now why some of us don't automatically accept a rape claim as true?

Yes. I can see why it is important to call women lying bitches and refer to obscure feminists every time there is a rape case because only 4 in 5 on campus rapes are real.

 

[Derec]

In order to make sense of your OP, we need to know what happened in the 27 "founded" cases of rape and in the 6 "unfounded" cases to the alleged perp.

Well in the cases of unfounded cases the perp is the false accuser and they never get expelled by the colleges.

Also interesting from the same article

That survey also revealed students’ lack of confidence in and knowledge of Harvard’s reporting system for cases of sexual harassment and assault. Eighty percent of female College students who reported having experienced nonconsensual penetration by incapacitation, and 69 percent of those who experienced penetration by force, did not file a formal report, according to a report on the survey by former provost Steven E. Hyman

And none of the people who "report" stuff to survey takers but not authorities are lying?

 

[Derec]

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2015/10/2/reported-rapes-nearly-doubles/

Can you understand now why some of us don't automatically accept a rape claim as true?

Yes. I can see why it is important to call women lying bitches and refer to obscure feminists every time there is a rape case because only 4 in 5 on campus rapes are real.

"Obscure feminists" like Wendy Murphy who said she "never met a false accusation" while participating in the witch hunt against the three innocent Duke players? Or the then Vassar assistant dean Catherine Comins who said that male students would benefit from being falsely accused of rape?
Who are non-obscure feminists according to Jimmy Higgins? Is Catherine MacKinnon, who said it was rape whenever a woman "feels" violated, non-obscure enough?

Speaking of Vassar, the innocent student who was expelled after a false rape allegation got his case dismissed. The decision is very chilling and entering Orwellian territory.

n Tuesday, a summary judgment was issued in favor of Vassar. The judge in the case, Ronnie Abrams, was recommended to the federal bench by Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, D-N.Y., who has no problem labeling young men as rapists without any due process.
Abrams' dismissal of Yu's charges are based on the fact that Title IX does not require adequate due process rights to students accused of sexual assault. Thus, a school following Title IX cannot, in theory, violate a student's due process rights. In the alternative, because Vassar is a private college, due process rights do not apply.

Due process denied: Judge finds against Vassar student accused of sexual assault
I.e. male students accused of rape have no due process rights. The senator who recommended this sorry excuse for a judge also championed the cause of another false rape accuser, the Matress Girl herself. People of New York should be ashamed of themselves for electing this woman.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yes. I can see why it is important to call women lying bitches and refer to obscure feminists every time there is a rape case because only 4 in 5 on campus rapes are real.

"Obscure feminists" like Wendy Murphy who said she "never met a false accusation" while participating in the witch hunt against the three innocent Duke players? Or the then Vassar assistant dean Catherine Comins who said that male students would benefit from being falsely accused of rape?
Who are non-obscure feminists according to Jimmy Higgins?

Speaking of Vassar, the innocent student who was expelled after a false rape allegation got his case dismissed. The decision is very chilling and entering Orwellian territory.

n Tuesday, a summary judgment was issued in favor of Vassar. The judge in the case, Ronnie Abrams, was recommended to the federal bench by Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, D-N.Y., who has no problem labeling young men as rapists without any due process.
Abrams' dismissal of Yu's charges are based on the fact that Title IX does not require adequate due process rights to students accused of sexual assault. Thus, a school following Title IX cannot, in theory, violate a student's due process rights. In the alternative, because Vassar is a private college, due process rights do not apply.

Due process denied: Judge finds against Vassar student accused of sexual assault
I.e. male students accused of rape have no due process rights. The senator who recommended this sorry excuse for a judge also championed the cause of another false rape accuser, the Matress Girl herself. People of New York should be ashamed of themselves.

See! Just like that. As long as there is mattress girl, all rape cases should be assumed to be lying bitches. Even if 80% of them aren't fake. We all know that false rape accusations go underreported.

 

[Derec]

See! Just like that. As long as there is mattress girl, all rape cases should be assumed to be lying bitches. Even if 80% of them aren't fake. We all know that false rape accusations go underreported.

Well you just made a big step in admitting that the Matress Girl, who was brought to State of the Union address by Senator Gillibrand, is a false accuser. There may be hope for you yet.

Let's assume the false rape rate is only 20%, although I suspect it to be much higher on college campuses with such twisted rules like "it's rape if she didn't give separate 'affirmative consent' before every step was initiated" or "it's rape if she has been drinking". That still means you should need solid evidence to expel somebody and not presume guilt to increase expulsion rate and appease the radical feminists who see all men as rapists. So it's not so much that women should be "assumed to be lying bitches" but that the men they are accusing should be presumed innocent. Unfortunately feminists view any sort of skepticism toward a rape claim as misogyny.
This is basically what feminists believe about false rape claims: No matter what Jackie said, we should generally believe rape claims

 

[KeepTalking]

Yes. I can see why it is important to call women lying bitches and refer to obscure feminists every time there is a rape case because only 4 in 5 on campus rapes are real.

"Obscure feminists" like Wendy Murphy who said she "never met a false accusation" while participating in the witch hunt against the three innocent Duke players? Or the then Vassar assistant dean Catherine Comins who said that male students would benefit from being falsely accused of rape?
Who are non-obscure feminists according to Jimmy Higgins? Is Catherine MacKinnon, who said it was rape whenever a woman "feels" violated, non-obscure enough?

Speaking of Vassar, the innocent student who was expelled after a false rape allegation got his case dismissed. The decision is very chilling and entering Orwellian territory.

n Tuesday, a summary judgment was issued in favor of Vassar. The judge in the case, Ronnie Abrams, was recommended to the federal bench by Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, D-N.Y., who has no problem labeling young men as rapists without any due process.
Abrams' dismissal of Yu's charges are based on the fact that Title IX does not require adequate due process rights to students accused of sexual assault. Thus, a school following Title IX cannot, in theory, violate a student's due process rights. In the alternative, because Vassar is a private college, due process rights do not apply.

Due process denied: Judge finds against Vassar student accused of sexual assault
I.e. male students accused of rape have no due process rights. The senator who recommended this sorry excuse for a judge also championed the cause of another false rape accuser, the Matress Girl herself. People of New York should be ashamed of themselves for electing this woman.

The judge did what judges do, he applied the law to the case. There is no legal issue of due process, because a private college can expel anyone at any time, for anything. There is no due process like there would be if it was an actual criminal case, and the accused stood the chance of being incarcerated. The student is free to walk the streets, free to apply at another college, and free to live his life with no criminal charges on his permanent record.

 

[Derec]

The judge did what judges do, he applied the law to the case.

First of all, the judge is a she. Second, she interpreted the law in favor of her feminist doctrine that men have no due process rights when falsely accused of rape.

There is no legal issue of due process, because a private college can expel anyone at any time, for anything. There is no due process like there would be if it was an actual criminal case, and the accused stood the chance of being incarcerated. The student is free to walk the streets, free to apply at another college, and free to live his life with no criminal charges on his permanent record.

And I guess he should be happy he is not imprisoned? Getting falsely expelled from a college is a serious matter. Had a female student been expelled after being raped and bringing the matter to college authorities would Ronnie the feminist judge have been as blase about the violation of her rights? And how about you? Would you view that expulsion as a horrible violation of her rights or would you say that "a private college can expel anyone at any time, for anything"?

It is amazing to me how ready "liberals" are to accept grossest injustice as long as it happens to groups they don't view worthy of protection like men or white people.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

See! Just like that. As long as there is mattress girl, all rape cases should be assumed to be lying bitches. Even if 80% of them aren't fake. We all know that false rape accusations go underreported.

Let's assume the false rape rate is only 20%...

Ok. I'll quote you on that in the future. Derec thinks the vast majority of rape cases are true and despite that, thinks that accusers should be run through the wringer.

...although I suspect it to be much higher on college campuses with such twisted rules like "it's rape if she didn't give separate 'affirmative consent' before every step was initiated" or "it's rape if she has been drinking". That still means you should need solid evidence to expel somebody and not presume guilt to increase expulsion rate and appease the radical feminists who see all men as rapists. So it's not so much that women should be "assumed to be lying bitches" but that the men they are accusing should be presumed innocent. Unfortunately feminists view any sort of skepticism toward a rape claim as misogyny.

Actually, misogyny is misogyny. A broken clock is right twice a day.

This is basically what feminists believe about false rape claims: No matter what Jackie said, we should generally believe rape claims

Uh huh. Yes, that's nice. The big scary broadbrushed, lying 20-ft tall feminists.

 

[laughing dog]

Well in the cases of unfounded cases the perp is the false accuser and they never get expelled by the colleges.

Also interesting from the same article

That survey also revealed students’ lack of confidence in and knowledge of Harvard’s reporting system for cases of sexual harassment and assault. Eighty percent of female College students who reported having experienced nonconsensual penetration by incapacitation, and 69 percent of those who experienced penetration by force, did not file a formal report, according to a report on the survey by former provost Steven E. Hyman

And none of the people who "report" stuff to survey takers but not authorities are lying?

I fail to see the relevance of your responses other than to acquaint the unfamiliar with your biases and illogic. You have not presented any evidence to let us know what happened in the Harvard cases. No one accused any authorities of lying.

 

[Derec]

Ok. I'll quote you on that in the future.

Do you know what "let's assume" means?

Derec thinks the vast majority of rape cases are true and despite that, thinks that accusers should be run through the wringer.

Even if 80% of rape claims are true there is no way to determine which ones can be proven true without what you call "wringer" and I call "due process". And even if 80% of claims are true doesn't mean the expulsion rate should be 80% because it is better to let 10 guilty people go than to punish one innocent person. Unfortunately feminists think the opposite for rape cases, that it is better to punish 10 falsely accused men than to let even one rapist go.

Actually, misogyny is misogyny. A broken clock is right twice a day.

I doubt radical feminists are even right twice a year, much less twice a day. They are more like a broken calendar, right once every 28 years, if that.

Uh huh. Yes, that's nice. The big scary broadbrushed, lying 20-ft tall feminists.

Wu was wrongfully expelled and denied justice by a feminist judge. She may not be 20 ft tall but she does wield a lot of power to cause gross injustice.

 

[KeepTalking]

First of all, the judge is a she.

The quoted portion of the article did not make this clear. I apologize for making the assumption that the judge would be white male, as I seem to have offended you by doing so.

Second, she interpreted the law in favor of her feminist doctrine that men have no due process rights when falsely accused of rape.

Oh, now I see what got your panties in a bunch about the gender of the judge, and here I thought you were making small strides towards enlightenment. The gender of the judge does not matter. No one has due process rights when it comes to enrollment at a private college, therefor the judge was correct to deny the due process argument.

There is no legal issue of due process, because a private college can expel anyone at any time, for anything. There is no due process like there would be if it was an actual criminal case, and the accused stood the chance of being incarcerated. The student is free to walk the streets, free to apply at another college, and free to live his life with no criminal charges on his permanent record.

And I guess he should be happy he is not imprisoned?

I'm happy that I am not imprisoned, aren't you?

Getting falsely expelled from a college is a serious matter.

Getting expelled from any academic institution is no where near as serious as losing one's freedom. At many private colleges you can be expelled for simply drinking alcohol, as well as a host of offenses that are not otherwise illegal.

Had a female student been expelled after being raped and bringing the matter to college authorities would Ronnie the feminist judge have been as blase about the violation of her rights?

There was no rights violation, as the right of due process does not apply to a private college, and nor should it be as a private college has no legal authority to enact any punishment beyond expulsion from that college. Continued enrollment at a private college is not a right in the USA.

And how about you? Would you view that expulsion as a horrible violation of her rights or would you say that "a private college can expel anyone at any time, for anything"?

I would say, and have already said, "a private college can expel anyone at any time, for anything". It is the truth, why should I say anything different.

It is amazing to me how ready "liberals" are to accept grossest injustice as long as it happens to groups they don't view worthy of protection like men or white people.

I am both a man, and a white person. Personally, I feel that I am worthy of protection from injustice. I also personally feel that expulsion from a private college cannot be described as an "injustice", and it seems that the justice system agrees with me.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Do you know what "let's assume" means?

I missed that part. The part where you say something you don't believe in an attempt to just gloss over the fact that you think so many women lie about rape because you don't trust women.

Derec thinks the vast majority of rape cases are true and despite that, thinks that accusers should be run through the wringer.

Even if 80% of rape claims are true there is no way to determine which ones can be proven true without what you call "wringer" and I call "due process".

What you call "due process" isn't actual due process. In general, your version of due process includes invading the privacy of a woman's life, calling them names, and assuming that she is guilty of false testimony, ironically because you think due process is needed for the person accused of rape. You don't go into any of these thinking the man is innocent, you think that the accuser is lying.

And even if 80% of claims are true doesn't mean the expulsion rate should be 80% because it is better to let 10 guilty people go than to punish one innocent person.

And don't forget, if they aren't found guilty, you can call the accusers lying bitches too! Double word score!!!

Unfortunately feminists think the opposite for rape cases, that it is better to punish 10 falsely accused men than to let even one rapist go.

Uh oh. There is that 20 ft tall, man eating broadbrushed feminist again.

Actually, misogyny is misogyny. A broken clock is right twice a day.

I doubt radical feminists are even right twice a year, much less twice a day.

Yeah, I know exactly how you feel.

Uh huh. Yes, that's nice. The big scary broadbrushed, lying 20-ft tall feminists.

Wu was wrongfully expelled and denied justice by a feminist judge. She may not be 20 ft tall but she does wield a lot of power to cause gross injustice.

And the pandemic continues where hundreds of thousands of college aged men are being expelled from schools because of feminist judges on the bench. Hey, what is the difference between a woman and a feminist? Nothing, they are both lying bitches... unless they testify against the accuser in trial.

 

[fromderinside]

The answer to Derec is that we must make any crime that is only 4/5 of the time true automatically dismissed. I think under those parameters there would be no murder convictions, no robbery convictions, no assault convictions, no terrorist convictions, etc. Yea for the rule of Law ala Derec.

Now that that's settled all we need to do is figure a way for Derec to post red herrings.

 

[Axulus]

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2015/10/2/reported-rapes-nearly-doubles/

Can you understand now why some of us don't automatically accept a rape claim as true?

Yes. I can see why it is important to call women lying bitches and refer to obscure feminists every time there is a rape case because only 4 in 5 on campus rapes are real.

So not automacially beliving every rape claim is true is the same thing as calling them all lying bitches? What a strange world you liberals live in.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I'd say that if the number of false or baseless allegations for a crime is 20%, then you've got a serious fucking problem with way too many false and baseless accusations.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Yes. I can see why it is important to call women lying bitches and refer to obscure feminists every time there is a rape case because only 4 in 5 on campus rapes are real.

So not automacially beliving every rape claim is true is the same thing as calling them all lying bitches? What a strange world you liberals live in.

Some hypocrisy there as your OP was a strawman. Not many people here think that we should just hang someone after being accused of rape.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

So not automacially beliving every rape claim is true is the same thing as calling them all lying bitches? What a strange world you liberals live in.

Some hypocrisy there as your OP was a strawman. Not many people here think that we should just hang someone after being accused of rape.

All rape allegations should be taken seriously.

Period.

Any questions?