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White people who walk on eggshells

 
 
 
J

Jolly_Penguin

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The "White Fragility" thread put forth the term "White Fragility" for the first time I have seen it. "White Fragility" there is defined in an odd way, but the term seems to me far more apt to describe white people, and it is usually white people, who are oversensitive to race and terrified of being seen as racist. Some of these white people walk on eggshells whenever they speak with minorities, especially black people, but including other minorities as well. I myself am Asian and I have met a few people who seem hypersensitive about not offending me about that. Which I find very silly.

A little while back I was at a candy store with a friend and they had gummy berries and gummy babies in various colours and flavours. My friend asked about the red berries, the blue berries, the red babies and the black babies. My friend then became hypersensitive when she realized the lady behind the counter was black and she had just said something about eating black babies. The lady behind the counter laughed about it, yes they are licorice and tasty, but my friend was deathly embarassed and apologetic for saying the name of the candy that was clearly labeled in front of her.

We have had a few threads on this forum that are similarly far out there. I remember one about Disney Princesses long ago and I think there was one about candy here too. Have you encountered this "White Fragility" about race? Is it a necessarily byproduct of the legitimate fight against racism?
 
Interesting topic...glad you posted it. Reminds me the other day when I was shopping in my local Lucky's supermarket after they had remodeled the store, and things weren't where they used to be. I remember trying to find a bag of rice, and just as I was starting to get really annoyed, I figured I would ask someone close by if they knew where the rice was. Which is not something I typically do. All the people around me were Asian (I live in an extremely diverse community, with Asians very dominant), but I felt like I shouldn't ask an Asian where the rice was, as that would be a "microaggression" and a "harmful stereotype". In my head I knew 99% of any Asian I ask wouldn't even bat an eye at the question, but the hypersensitivity that permeates our society has sort of got me a little cowed. Anyway, I proceeded to just keep wandering the store in frustration until I finally found it on my own. My mind goes through these scenarios constantly, as irrational as they may be, in my everyday, ordinary interactions with minorites and women. I feel like I have to couch my responses very thoughtfully and carefully.

I think its not just white people that are hyperaware about this stuff either. A few months ago I was walking towards the exit of my local Home Depot and there was a black employee walking to the back of the store carrying a watermelon for a company picnic in the back parking lot. I looked at him in the face and he had this funny, sheepish look on his face, as if to say, "Yeah, yeah, I know...a black guy with a watermelon". I gave him a big smile back, with a chuckle. No words needed to be exchanged. I think we both recognized the silliness of it all.
 
thebeave said:
Interesting topic...glad you posted it. Reminds me the other day when I was shopping in my local Lucky's supermarket after they had remodeled the store, and things weren't where they used to be. I remember trying to find a bag of rice, and just as I was starting to get really annoyed, I figured I would ask someone close by if they knew where the rice was. Which is not something I typically do. All the people around me were Asian (I live in an extremely diverse community, with Asians very dominant), but I felt like I shouldn't ask an Asian where the rice was, as that would be a "microaggression" and a "harmful stereotype". In my head I knew 99% of any Asian I ask wouldn't even bat an eye at the question, but the hypersensitivity that permeates our society has sort of got me a little cowed. Anyway, I proceeded to just keep wandering the store in frustration until I finally found it on my own. My mind goes through these scenarios constantly, as irrational as they may be, in my everyday, ordinary interactions with minorites and women. I feel like I have to couch my responses very thoughtfully and carefully.

I think its not just white people that are hyperaware about this stuff either. A few months ago I was walking towards the exit of my local Home Depot and there was a black employee walking to the back of the store carrying a watermelon for a company picnic in the back parking lot. I looked at him in the face and he had this funny, sheepish look on his face, as if to say, "Yeah, yeah, I know...a black guy with a watermelon". I gave him a big smile back, with a chuckle. No words needed to be exchanged. I think we both recognized the silliness of it all.
Click to expand...

BE BOLD

Ask where the rice is. "Excuse me, do you know where I might find the rice? I have looked everywhere and I am not seeing it." is not going to be a problem.

"HEY CHARLIE CHAN! Me rookie for lice. Where it at?" is going to be a BIG problem.

When you ask the first sentence, no one outside of the mentally deranged is going to hear the second.
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
...................
We have had a few threads on this forum that are similarly far out there. I remember one about Disney Princesses long ago and I think there was one about candy here too. Have you encountered this "White Fragility" about race? Is it a necessarily byproduct of the legitimate fight against racism?
Click to expand...
Yes, I run into it all the time. I see it as a result of the hyper political correctness that grips our country. Too many fear offending anyone. It is stupidity, blacks know they are black, Asians know they are Asian, Hispanics know they are Hispanic. Those trying to pretend they don't notice are ridiculous.

My best friend was born in Mexico. She knows she is Mexican. I call her "the Spic" and she loves the frankness. One of her friends is Chinese and refers to herself as "the Chink" when calling or emailing me. Me? I'm known as "the redneck".
 
skepticalbip said:
Jolly_Penguin said:
...................
We have had a few threads on this forum that are similarly far out there. I remember one about Disney Princesses long ago and I think there was one about candy here too. Have you encountered this "White Fragility" about race? Is it a necessarily byproduct of the legitimate fight against racism?
Click to expand...
Yes, I run into it all the time. I see it as a result of the hyper political correctness that grips our country. Too many fear offending anyone. It is stupidity, blacks know they are black, Asians know they are Asian, Hispanics know they are Hispanic. Those trying to pretend they don't notice are ridiculous.

My best friend was born in Mexico. She knows she is Mexican. I call her "the Spic" and she loves the frankness. One of her friends is Chinese and refers to herself as "the Chink" when calling or emailing me. Me? I'm known as "the redneck".
Click to expand...
Been there. Seems people who know one another well enough use all kinds of racial slurs, which get interpreted as just friendly cantankerous chat. It all depends on the receiver. Some people are just very provincial. Potential sexual statements and exchanges are the same thing. It's just a matter of maturity and familiarity.
 
thebeave said:
Interesting topic...glad you posted it. Reminds me the other day when I was shopping in my local Lucky's supermarket after they had remodeled the store, and things weren't where they used to be. I remember trying to find a bag of rice, and just as I was starting to get really annoyed, I figured I would ask someone close by if they knew where the rice was. Which is not something I typically do. All the people around me were Asian (I live in an extremely diverse community, with Asians very dominant), but I felt like I shouldn't ask an Asian where the rice was, as that would be a "microaggression" and a "harmful stereotype". In my head I knew 99% of any Asian I ask wouldn't even bat an eye at the question, but the hypersensitivity that permeates our society has sort of got me a little cowed. Anyway, I proceeded to just keep wandering the store in frustration until I finally found it on my own. My mind goes through these scenarios constantly, as irrational as they may be, in my everyday, ordinary interactions with minorites and women. I feel like I have to couch my responses very thoughtfully and carefully.

I think its not just white people that are hyperaware about this stuff either. A few months ago I was walking towards the exit of my local Home Depot and there was a black employee walking to the back of the store carrying a watermelon for a company picnic in the back parking lot. I looked at him in the face and he had this funny, sheepish look on his face, as if to say, "Yeah, yeah, I know...a black guy with a watermelon". I gave him a big smile back, with a chuckle. No words needed to be exchanged. I think we both recognized the silliness of it all.
Click to expand...

Just politely ask for the rice.
 
Interesting topic. One example I can think of is walking down the sidewalk and needing to cross the street. However, a black male was heading my way. We were the only two people on that section of the sidewalk. I had to think about whether I should cross the street and be seen as racist by him because he might think I'm trying to avoid him becaue I'm afraid or something like that. I decided to walk slower and wait for him to catch up to me so that it didn't seem like I was afraid of him.
 
whichphilosophy said:
thebeave said:
Interesting topic...glad you posted it. Reminds me the other day when I was shopping in my local Lucky's supermarket after they had remodeled the store, and things weren't where they used to be. I remember trying to find a bag of rice, and just as I was starting to get really annoyed, I figured I would ask someone close by if they knew where the rice was. Which is not something I typically do. All the people around me were Asian (I live in an extremely diverse community, with Asians very dominant), but I felt like I shouldn't ask an Asian where the rice was, as that would be a "microaggression" and a "harmful stereotype". In my head I knew 99% of any Asian I ask wouldn't even bat an eye at the question, but the hypersensitivity that permeates our society has sort of got me a little cowed. Anyway, I proceeded to just keep wandering the store in frustration until I finally found it on my own. My mind goes through these scenarios constantly, as irrational as they may be, in my everyday, ordinary interactions with minorites and women. I feel like I have to couch my responses very thoughtfully and carefully.

I think its not just white people that are hyperaware about this stuff either. A few months ago I was walking towards the exit of my local Home Depot and there was a black employee walking to the back of the store carrying a watermelon for a company picnic in the back parking lot. I looked at him in the face and he had this funny, sheepish look on his face, as if to say, "Yeah, yeah, I know...a black guy with a watermelon". I gave him a big smile back, with a chuckle. No words needed to be exchanged. I think we both recognized the silliness of it all.
Click to expand...

Just politely ask for the rice.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but look what happened when Jerry Seinfeld poitely asked where the Chinese restauarants were?

Look what happened when that reporter mentioned the word "field" and "swinging" to her black coworker.
 
braces_for_impact said:
I'm Polish, no ever asks me anything. :(
Click to expand...


You Pollacks took a lot of crap in the 70's and '80's as I remember (dumb Pollack jokes anyone?), starting with Mike on All in the Family. Never understood it, as I know several Polish people and they are all smart, fine citizens (even though, like Mr. Spock, their last names were unpronouncable).
 
I don't know how reliable this is but:

The term Dumb Polack was originally directed at the wave of refugees after WWII. On the paperwork it showed "D.P." Which stood for "Displaced person". But we all say Dumb Polack.
 
Axulus said:
Interesting topic. One example I can think of is walking down the sidewalk and needing to cross the street. However, a black male was heading my way. We were the only two people on that section of the sidewalk. I had to think about whether I should cross the street and be seen as racist by him because he might think I'm trying to avoid him becaue I'm afraid or something like that. I decided to walk slower and wait for him to catch up to me so that it didn't seem like I was afraid of him.
Click to expand...
Personally, I think that the decision of what to do was unnecessary. Those who are looking to be offended will find offense no matter what you do (like Seinfield's Chinese postman). The person you were meeting on the sidewalk wouldn't think anything of your crossing the street if they were reasonable. If they were looking to be offended, then they would take your crossing the street as an attempt to avoid them and would take your waiting to show you weren't trying to avoid them as patronizing.
 
The thing is, I don't call the examples we've seen so far as "walking on eggshells". Some may call it Political Correctness. I call it being polite, or recognizing people as individuals, or being aware, as the case may be. One thing I'm aware of for example, is when getting on an elevator or off a bus alone or at night with a woman. I smile, keep my distance, and if possible get ahead of them in their field of view so that I'm not a threat. When talking to my friends I used to commonly call them "boy". I wouldn't call a black man "boy" though. This isn't PC, or walking on eggshells, it's being respectful. Whenever I hear someone say "This may not be PC, but..." I am now on alert to hear douchbaggery, and 9 times out of 10, I'm right.
 
Malintent said:
I don't know how reliable this is but:

The term Dumb Polack was originally directed at the wave of refugees after WWII. On the paperwork it showed "D.P." Which stood for "Displaced person". But we all say Dumb Polack.
Click to expand...
And here I thought Dumb Polack was one word. Sorta like I thought "Damn Yankee" was one word until I was informed that it was, in fact, two words. ;)
 
thebeave said:
braces_for_impact said:
I'm Polish, no ever asks me anything. :(
Click to expand...


You Pollacks took a lot of crap in the 70's and '80's as I remember (dumb Pollack jokes anyone?), starting with Mike on All in the Family. Never understood it, as I know several Polish people and they are all smart, fine citizens (even though, like Mr. Spock, their last names were unpronouncable).
Click to expand...
My mother used to talk about her little jewish friend and her little black friends. In trying to show no prejudice her prejudice was showing. She was just managing it as best she could I thought.
 
Malintent said:
I don't know how reliable this is but:

The term Dumb Polack was originally directed at the wave of refugees after WWII. On the paperwork it showed "D.P." Which stood for "Displaced person". But we all say Dumb Polack.
Click to expand...

That reminds me of the notorious Polish scofflaw Prawo Jazdy.

And Randall is definitely not the one to walk on eggshells:

It's difficult to keep track of all the myriad words that are supposedly racial slurs. Are you allowed to call a black CIA agent a "spook"? What about if he dies and starts to haunt Langley?
 
joedad said:
thebeave said:
You Pollacks took a lot of crap in the 70's and '80's as I remember (dumb Pollack jokes anyone?), starting with Mike on All in the Family. Never understood it, as I know several Polish people and they are all smart, fine citizens (even though, like Mr. Spock, their last names were unpronouncable).
Click to expand...
My mother used to talk about her little jewish friend and her little black friends. In trying to show no prejudice her prejudice was showing. She was just managing it as best she could I thought.
Click to expand...

This is so common. My Uncle is a good man, and I love him dearly. When he meets a person of different ethnicity, he treats them with respect as he would treat someone who is white. Yet at times he can say the most racist things. I know it's unintnentional, and I know it's ingrained. He's 77. He's so much better than his mom, who used the words "niggar" commonly and was incredibly racist in her every day attitude. He doesn't do that, and when he says offensive stuff I do point it out to him and correct him, asking him questions to cement things in his own mind. He tries to correct his own thinking, and for this I give him credit. Here's the important thing though. He's occasionally racist. He doesn't think of himself as such, but he is. In my experience, most people are this way. Very few people know and admit to being racist.
 
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