hiring illegals and the government question

[BH]

I have a question about reporting hiring of persons to the government. Right now you have to fill out an I-9 and are given two different lists you can use to have two different forms of identification to use to prove you legally can work in the US. It has been like this a several years. And if the information doesn't seem to match or be legitimate you are notified of this.

But going back to the 80's and 90's how did you prove you legally could work in the United States, and if you did hire someone with bogus information was the government pretty good at getting back to you regarding any red flags?

 

[Bacillus anthracis]

It's kind of a futile question.

Here's how it works. I used to work in the construction industry here in SoCal. Guys go into offices looking for work or they already know a trade. The company will ask them for ID and then check the ID--usually a social security card. If the ID comes back as okay, then they're hired. If the ID belongs to someone else, the company tells him the ID doesn't work. Then the guy go gets a new one, comes back, and if it checks out, he's hired. That's not an exaggeration or an anomaly.

Anyway, then the guy asks to get 1099'd so the problem of income tax never arises and that's that.

The idea of government doing anything about it is as empty as the space between here and Mars. I don't remember offhand what the number of agents employed by the fed for the purpose of investigating this kind of thing is, but it's ridiculously low. It's an unspoken accommodation to business, with the occasional bust of super flagrant violators. And those practices... holy shit. Papers or not, they terrify the hell out of immigrant workers.

Anyway, the government doesn't do anything now, and they didn't do anything back then. They were a little more vigorous on job sites and back in the late 70s when there was so little work that illegal labor wasn't needed in the trades. But we haven't seen anything like that since and the practice of hiring illegal or knowingly ill-documented workers is so prevalent among non-union shops that it's an exercise in futility.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

The current system was set up for businesses to allow them to hire immigrants at will. The i-9 protects them against government action.

 

[BH]

How do you check out to see if the social security number is legitimate or matches? Is this something the employer has to do at the home office human resources level of is this something the company sends to the government and gets a reply from it? I have only filled out the forms when hiring someone. I then send the paperwork to human resources and am done with it. But a situation has arisen that has peaked my curiosity about what happens after I mail it all in.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's kind of a futile question.

Here's how it works. I used to work in the construction industry here in SoCal. Guys go into offices looking for work or they already know a trade. The company will ask them for ID and then check the ID--usually a social security card. If the ID comes back as okay, then they're hired. If the ID belongs to someone else, the company tells him the ID doesn't work. Then the guy go gets a new one, comes back, and if it checks out, he's hired. That's not an exaggeration or an anomaly.

Anyway, then the guy asks to get 1099'd so the problem of income tax never arises and that's that.

The idea of government doing anything about it is as empty as the space between here and Mars. I don't remember offhand what the number of agents employed by the fed for the purpose of investigating this kind of thing is, but it's ridiculously low. It's an unspoken accommodation to business, with the occasional bust of super flagrant violators. And those practices... holy shit. Papers or not, they terrify the hell out of immigrant workers.

Anyway, the government doesn't do anything now, and they didn't do anything back then. They were a little more vigorous on job sites and back in the late 70s when there was so little work that illegal labor wasn't needed in the trades. But we haven't seen anything like that since and the practice of hiring illegal or knowingly ill-documented workers is so prevalent among non-union shops that it's an exercise in futility.

Second this. The government quite correctly doesn't want businesses trying to determine if the SS card is real or not as there's no meaningful anti-fraud protections on our SS cards--in practice this would come down to don't-hire-those-who-look-hispanic.

Furthermore, as it stands I don't want the government taking meaningful measures against hiring the undocumented as that would simply force them into identity theft--which would cause more problems for Americans. We need to address identity theft first, then we can stop the hiring of illegals.

 

[fromderinside]

If dude or dudette doesn't have, can't produce, a green card the candidate should be rejected. There is a registry for good and bad green cards and duplicates.

 

[bilby]

If dude or dudette doesn't have, can't produce, a green card the candidate should be rejected. There is a registry for good and bad green cards and duplicates.

Do all US citizens have a green card? I was under the impression that they are only given to immigrants - so requiring one to get a job would effectively be an 'Immigrants Only' employment policy.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If dude or dudette doesn't have, can't produce, a green card the candidate should be rejected. There is a registry for good and bad green cards and duplicates.

Citizens don't have green cards. While they don't take your green card away when you're naturalized it becomes meaningless.

 

[laughing dog]

I have a question about reporting hiring of persons to the government. Right now you have to fill out an I-9 and are given two different lists you can use to have two different forms of identification to use to prove you legally can work in the US. It has been like this a several years. And if the information doesn't seem to match or be legitimate you are notified of this.

But going back to the 80's and 90's how did you prove you legally could work in the United States, and if you did hire someone with bogus information was the government pretty good at getting back to you regarding any red flags?

I can attest that I was never asked to show I was a US citizen in the 1970s, 80s or 90s when I applied for a job.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I have a question about reporting hiring of persons to the government. Right now you have to fill out an I-9 and are given two different lists you can use to have two different forms of identification to use to prove you legally can work in the US. It has been like this a several years. And if the information doesn't seem to match or be legitimate you are notified of this.

But going back to the 80's and 90's how did you prove you legally could work in the United States, and if you did hire someone with bogus information was the government pretty good at getting back to you regarding any red flags?

I can attest that I was never asked to show I was a US citizen in the 1970s, 80s or 90s when I applied for a job.

Seconded. I've never been asked, either. They either want proof of citizenship (I've always used my passport as it's always been more convenient than digging out my SS card) or SS card + ID. If you have a SS card that isn't marked "not valid for employment" you're fine--you just need photo ID to go with it to show it's your card.

Now, as a 1099 worker I wasn't asked for *ANY* documentation, just filling out the form. (It's possible this was just saving hassle as I've worked for him before--he knows I'm legal.)

 

[SimpleDon]

All of this is only valid if you want to directly hire someone. You are pretty much free and clear if you subcontract with another company to do some work. They can all be illegals including the nominal owners of the subcontractor and only they are responsible to the law. You can only be held responsible if you know for certain that the subcontractor is hiring undocumented aliens.

This loophole was introduced into the law in Reagan's amnesty immigration bill in 1986. Nominally the legislation toughen the requirements to prevent the hiring of illegals. In practice this loophole made it easier.