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What is race?

AthenaAwakened

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non-theist, anarcho-socialist
What defines race?
Why do we choose certain characteristics as marker of race and not others?
What purpose does categorizing people by these characteristics serve?
What does race mean?
 
We had to research this "race " issue, what is means, in our concentration back in the day.

What defines race?
Why do we choose certain characteristics as marker of race and not others?
What purpose does categorizing people by these characteristics serve?
What does race mean?

Good question AthenaAwakened by the way. And the results sure piss a butt load of people off today. I do not know how old you are but in the 70's and early 80's the human race was divided into three distinct races of Mankind. We use Mankind as a generic term. Each distinct group had certain physical, physiological, attributes. You know like how scientist divide up the animal kingdom; Man belonging to the primates. This was all before the political pleasantries of today though.

So we have Negroid, Caucasoid and Mongoloid as the three groups. What is interesting is skin color has noting to do with attributing a group. You can have a dark skin person from India who is a classified as Caucasian. It sounds weird but this is what they taught us back in the day before all this more politically modern interpretation took hold. So the hair is important as are the eyes, the nose and a few other features. You could be a dark skin Polynesian with kinky hair and still be classified as Mongoloid. This pisses off quite a few Native Americans and the various Northern Eskimo-Aleut groups. Today being referred today as an Eskimo is considered offensive by some Native Americans. So you can see where this is going.

So as not to get into the physical attributes of the three groups we can easily see the problems in today's environment. Today the concept of "race" is divided and sub-divided even more. It is kind of weird being a non-white or a white Hispanic. I am a quarter Mexican with my 3/4 European. Also notice how Native American and Eskimo are two distinct races and or ethnicity on some forms. This leads to the next conclusion on race.

The other theory that I had to study is that "race" is a social construct. Man in his societies and cultures manufactures race as to divide the various peoples. This is usually done by the white, so called caucasian race, that enslaves, exploits and manipulates the indigenous populations over the history of Mankind. The Greeks, Romans, Mongols, etc did it as to legitimize their exploitations of the locals. The Belgians and Portuguese actually further divided the blacks in Africa so they fought amongst themselves. We see this in the Hutus and Tutsis. The Hutus were the darker shorter blacks who were basically farmers while the Tutsis were the taller lighter skin blacks who raised cattle. Look what happened latter because of this man made antagonism. Both locals are black but they are divided by a man made social construct for power and profit. This has happened all over the globe over time and cultures.

There is basically one race of Man and that is the "Human Race." Technically all humans come from Africa, plain and simple. And here is where all kinds of people get all butt hurt. All humans living on this planet white, brown , purple, green have ancestors who were black. Translation we all come from black people. You can easily see where this leads to. There are all kinds of physical stuff on our bodies that support this scientific fact.

So as not to dwell on the "race" issue it is interesting to see how we got and evolved socially to get where we are today. You can take two schools of thought; one scientific and the other a social construct. As an extra added fun bonus there was going to be a "forth" race of Man. This would be the Aboriginal from Australia. The Aboriginal has all three physical traits of the races of Mankind. This is what was taught back in the day in college. And the color of your skin has nothing to do who and what you are! That is all Man made B.S.

I hope that I helped. I just love to drop the bomb on some intellectual white supremacist or white Anglo/Protestant snob claiming the inherent superiority of being white and or the white race. I tell them that heh dude did you know that all white people come from Africans? Oh and that being white is a genetic defect? And they go what? Here is usually when the fists start flying! LOL! Oh well the truth sucks.

Peace out

Pegasus
 
What defines race?
People of a non-rational or unscientific bent define race - and they define it to suit their agenda de jour.

Why do we choose certain characteristics as marker of race and not others?
Because "we" are simplistic creatures who are fond of taking mental shortcuts.

What purpose does categorizing people by these characteristics serve?
It helps people make decisions while achieving their primary goal in all things - not having to exert too much mental energy on anything.

What does race mean?
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
 
Isn't race just an intermediate stage to speciation?
based on what?
Humans are animals, right? Evolution and natural selection apply to us as to all other life on this planet. "Humans" diverged from a shared ancestral population 50K-60K years ago. But we don't like to characterize our own as a "subspecies" or "breed." So we call it "race."

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/05/richard-dawkins-accepts-the-usefulness-of-race/#.U40w3XCUmVs
 
It's a social construct, generally around the most visible physical (or sometimes linguistic or religious) differences between people living in a single area.

Nothing else.

150 years ago, Italians and Irish were a distinct "race" from Anglo-Saxon Protestants. They remain so for some extreme racists in the latter category.

There are two uses for racism:

1) A Post Hoc rationalization by people with socioeconomic advantages justifying why those without them deserve their lot. You can see this in writings of some of the pre-Revolutionary French Aristocrats who genuinely believed themselves racially distinct from the French peasantry because of their descent from the Merovingian Franks.

2) An active rationalization of why a socioeconomically disadvantaged person is secretly superior to their perceived oppressors in brotherhood with members of his "race". In this it is a subgroup of Nationalism which is NOT the same thing as Patriotism. (Ask the Austrian Empire if you can find it.) The classic example of this would be the various Balkan Nationalist movements that originally focused on anti-Turkish and Austrian resistance but then rapidly turned on one another to the degree that various subgroups could be seen as collaborators of invaders. First the Turks are represented as less than human by Serbs, who then turn on Albanians and Croats as these two groups seek outside aid from Central European powers. I'd add that appealing to 2) was how the Turks maintained control of the Serbs prior to the 1700s and 1800s. Fear of the loss of their Orthodox religion to Catholic expansion was played on. "Better the turban than the mitre (the Pope)."

1) and 2) are both very active in North American anti-Black racism. Plenty of wealthy Whites have bigoted opinions of Blacks but there are virtually no true White Supremacists born into affluence. You have to be very poor to see your skin color as a treasured possession. The trick in getting socioeconomically disadvantaged Whites in the South and other rural areas to identify local Blacks as a threat always has been the threat of Blacks as tools of Northern politicians, formerly Republican industrialists but now Democratic anti-Christians (among other things).

1) is naturally totally absent from the extant Black Supremacy movement in North America, which is a thing. Ask the Southern Poverty Law Center.
 
Allow me to interject something here.

Affluence is not a vaccine against becoming a bigot.

White supremacist attitudes can found across socio-economic strata as can integrationist and egalitarian sympathies.

Money no more improves one's character than sunshine sweetens trash.

If "true white supremacists" were indeed rare among the affluent, then what could explain generations of the southern aristocracy and numerous northern restricted country clubs?
 
Let me respond to that interjection.

A.) My statements in White Supremacy had more to do with the contemporary situation than the historical one, although I think you'll find that the Southern "Aristocrats" were more wont to show consideration to their slaves than their hired overseers and those segregated clubs kept out a lot more folks than just Blacks.

B.) Where are you getting the idea that I find the type 1 bigots morally superior to the type 2 ones? It's actually QUITE the opposite.

The type 2 people are being misled and if they truly understood their interests and the true nature of the people they have been taught to hate, then they would be ardent economic populists. That's a situation I long to see realized. The self-serving type 1 bigots who are just trying to make sure the system stays rigged in their favor would simply fabricate a new ad hoc rationalization to replace race and go right on being the entitled slimeballs that they are insisting that everyone is in the place in society that they deserve.
 
I see it as a descriptor. We're all the same species, but some of us have evolved different characteristics in response to our geographic location. If I'm looking for my friend, who's Indian (as in from Kolkutta) and I'm trying to describe him to you, I could say he's 5'6 with black hair and eyes and darker skin. If I'm asking you if you've seen him, by this description he could be of African descent, Polynesian, Eastern Indian, Native American or even a tanned or darker white person. My description doesn't help much. If I tell you he's Eastern Indian, you now have in mind a basic "archtype" and know immediately what I'm talking about, and we have a much better chance of finding my friend. The problems arise in my view (now and in the past) when race becomes anything more than this.

Race could also mean parts of culture or shared experience. If we're having a discussion about affirmative action for example, and we talk about "African Americans", we're usually speaking about a group of people that may have a broad set of physical descriptors and whose parentage is from a variety of different backgrounds. Yet, we're also speaking in general terms about a group of people that have been disadvantaged and are suffering from lack of economic and other opportunities because of racist programs in the history of this country and in place today.

So I guess the answer to your question is that, from what I can see, it changes depending on context. That's all I got.
 
What defines race?
Why do we choose certain characteristics as marker of race and not others?
What purpose does categorizing people by these characteristics serve?
What does race mean?

Race is the inevitable result of excessive inbreeding among a limited population, leading to a predominance of certain external physical characteristics.
 
What defines race?
Why do we choose certain characteristics as marker of race and not others?
What purpose does categorizing people by these characteristics serve?
What does race mean?

Race is the inevitable result of excessive inbreeding among a limited population, leading to a predominance of certain external physical characteristics.

In some ways, I think this describes it. But there is also that social aspect that is weird and perplexing. Race being used to create castes. and this makes both of those previous answers just full of weird since having half or part or vestiges of these physical traits can yield undiluted aggressive caste claims.

This is a good question because race seems to make little sense to me. I remember watching Vanessa Williams crowned as "the first black Miss America," and saying, "wait, how do we call her 'black' when she has such vivid light eyes? What's 'black,' anyway?" and having everyone shush me and cast furtive looks at the woman in teh room who was black - as if I said something insulting about Vanessa Williams being a mixture of whatever categories they were trying to keep separate.

I am perplexed by "race" at the same time that I am pleased by seeing such differences between people. So I like the visual differences that we call "race" but can't figure out the idea of "race" - and I guess at the same time am burdened with the baggage of assumptions about race that I grew up with.
 
... there is also that social aspect that is weird and perplexing. Race being used to create castes. and this makes both of those previous answers just full of weird since having half or part or vestiges of these physical traits can yield undiluted aggressive caste claims.

This is a good question because race seems to make little sense to me. I remember watching Vanessa Williams crowned as "the first black Miss America," and saying, "wait, how do we call her 'black' when she has such vivid light eyes? What's 'black,' anyway?" and having everyone shush me and cast furtive looks at the woman in teh room who was black - as if I said something insulting about Vanessa Williams being a mixture of whatever categories they were trying to keep separate.

I am perplexed by "race" at the same time that I am pleased by seeing such differences between people. So I like the visual differences that we call "race" but can't figure out the idea of "race" - and I guess at the same time am burdened with the baggage of assumptions about race that I grew up with.

Animals,humans among them categorize competition, food, and the like, by like or other. Other is guarded against. That's the beginning. Extremely highly cognitive social animals even develop linguistic categories where like and other come to determine conversation about preferred grouping. Humans, being the only one who we know about who do this, are a one-off, phenomenon, for this categorization.

The only way for us to bridge the gap between phenomenon and categorical comparison is to observe similarities and differences among species in the areas where we use this linguistic categorization. So a red betta rejecting a blue betta by attacking it might be considered how what is seen as different within species is treated naturalistically. If there is biological advantage gained by such as one might expect from similar activity by betta in mating one should be able to demonstrate the viability of these distinctions over time in reproductive success. Apparently there are stable ratios of red and blue betta so there is probably no biological benefit beyond the local population in the current generation, a probable racist behavior.

There have been taboos against interbreeding among white, yellow, brown, humans and there have been campaigns by each against each of the others over time and there is a stable relationship among color of individual across the planet and even within regions here one color group generally prevails which more recent behavior suggests stable relations are maintained even when one group or another is under physical duress. So discrimination based on color by humans is probably a racist vestige from other protective behavior activity.

Its in us. Skin color has a useful adaptive basis. So we have to range in our impulses about different, other, is we are to overcome inherent racism. Its one of those things that large social groupings, leviathans, seem capable of promoting through imposed constraints and social custom.

I say give it time, practice acceptance consciously, support social trends that may lead to correctness, another problem area - one of lesser issue - so our society can move to constraining expression of racist thoughts until they are no longer necessary for us getting along (a very long time given the primitive nature of our inclinations).
 
What defines race?
I do not like being called a "what". That term I reserve for the lower races.

Why do we choose certain characteristics as marker of race and not others?
Empirical measurements of racially superior traits such as skin color, lactose tolerance, light sensitivity, tea drinking, and the concept of a Christian God.

What purpose does categorizing people by these characteristics serve?
To keep my race from mixing with the lesser races. We don't want no up-breeding. Hemophilia is a mark of superiority.

What does race mean?
It means superior breeding and refinement. This is why those Sportscenter folks match their ties to their pocket squares.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnWJ6deXgZU
 
Let's try this

http://raceandgenomics.ssrc.org/Goodman/

Explaining Human Variation

Statistically explaining “a little bit” about something may actually end up doing more harm than good if one begins to forget the "lack of precision" of the concept. This is the first problem when one substitutes race for human variation: one tends to forget about the 94% of variation that race fails to statistically explain. The test I now put to race-as-genetics is not statistically, but conceptually. Is race merely a poor correlate of human genetic variation or does it help to explain the underlying processes by which variation comes about? Consider the following.



Racial definitions and boundaries change over time and place. Thus, race is an inherently unstable and unreliable concept. That is fine for local realities but not so for a scientific concept. The importance of this point is that a bio-racial generalization that appears true at one time and place is not necessarily as true in another time and place. We just don’t know. One of the first lessons of science is to not base a generalization on a shifting concept, which is exactly what race is.



The idea of race can only divide human diversity into a small number of divisions. That is the limit. This might have been all that one could do before the advent of parametric statistics, multivariable analyses, and computers. But, now we can do so much more.



Because race is used in medicine and other fields as a way to categorize both genetics and lived experience, what passes as the result of genetic difference may actually be due to interactions or some aspect of lived experience. Using race tends to conflate genetics and lived experience (Goodman, 2001).



I am pessimistic about how the subtle reuses of race in genetics will eventually merge with virulent racists. This does not mean that I want to hide anything about human variation. Rather, it means that we need to study human variation precisely.



I advocate for de-racializing biological variation simply because there is always a more precise and meaningful way to characterize and explain those myriad variations.

Location, Location, Location

In the real estate industry there is a general rule that three things primarily determine housing prices: location, location and location. A similar refrain applies in the case of human genetic variation. Geographic location is the best single explanation for human genetic variation. There is no more powerful piece of information for predicting the genetic makeup of either an individual or a group than knowing from where on the map they originate. Furthermore, the degree of genetic variation between any two human groups is almost entirely explained by the geographic distance between them: Genetic and geographic distances are almost perfectly correlated (Templeton, 1998).

Although highly correlated with genetic variation, geographic location, however, is not in itself an explanation for genetic variation. Complex questions about human variation come down to specifics about our early evolution and migration out of Africa, subsequent movements of migrating populations, adaptive struggles, and stochastic events. To begin to put together these puzzle pieces, requires multiple lines of evidence and inquiry. Human diversity is the end result of two complex, interrelated and fascinating processes: evolution and history.

For example, one might ask, “Why do some individuals have sickle cell trait? Is it because of their race?” The answer to this question is clearly “no.” Race is a poor explanation for the distribution of sickle cell trait, which occurs in high frequencies only in particular regions of Africa while also occurring in high frequencies in parts of Asia and Europe. Rather, sickle cell trait can be understood as a fascinating history involving agricultural intensification, clearing of lands, breeding grounds for mosquitoes, and so on (Livingstone, 1958).

Sickle cell is but one example of how evolution and cultural history explain not only the distribution of particular traits, but how particular traits come about. This is one specific example of the profoundly biocultural processes of evolution and history. I want to propose that if we think race is an explanation or even if we use it as a statistical proxy, we are less likely to conceptually understand how variation arises and is distributed.
 
Racial Identification in the Skull and Teeth discusses how forensic anthropologists identify race from skull features. I've also found Craniofacial Criteria in the Skeletal Attribution of Race. One can usually identify a skull's owner as having been Caucasoid, Mongoloid, or Negroid.

Negroid = south of Sahara. Negroid may be divided up into Congoid (black African) and Capoid (Khoisanid).

Mongoloid = east Asia and the Americas, sometimes split into Mongoloid proper and Amerindoid.

Caucasoid = Europe, north Africa, the Middle East, and the Indian subcontinent. There's plenty of variation in that one, especially in Europe. Caucasoid people's skin colors vary from very pale to dark, so "white" applies to only some Caucasoids. The name comes from the late 18th cy., when a certain Christoph Meiners decided that people of the southern Caucasus were most archetypical of the race.

Another race I've seen mentioned is Australoid (Australia, New Guinea, southern Indian subcontinent, nearby), and Australian forensic anthropologists must have learned to distinguish Aborigines and descendants of European settlers.

So we have at least 5 races and likely more, depending on how one wants to subdivide these populations. Australoid, Capoid, Caucasoid, Congoid, Mongoloid. Furthermore, there are various ambiguous cases and cases of mixture, including premodern ones like Caucasoid - Mongoloid in central Asia, and Caucasoid - Australoid in southern India and thereabouts.

But some of the splits between these populations are very old. Cro-Magnon people (Early European Modern Humans) have some Caucasoid features, for instance, and they go back at least 43,000 years.
 
Lots of racial categories are cultural, however. How the Irish Became White? Paul Ryan's Ugly Public Embrace of Anti-Black Racism and Eugenics mentions how in the 19th century, many Americans believed that Irish people were Not Real White People, despite their very-similar Northwestern Caucasoid appearance.

Race in a Genetic World | Harvard Magazine May-Jun 2008
“I am an African American,” says Duana Fullwiley, “but in parts of Africa, I am white.” To do fieldwork as a medical anthropologist in Senegal, she says, “I take a plane to France, a seven- to eight-hour ride. My race changes as I cross the Atlantic. There, I say, ‘Je suis noire,’ and they say, ‘Oh, okay—métisse—you are mixed.’ Then I fly another six to seven hours to Senegal, and I am white. In the space of a day, I can change from African American, to métisse, to tubaab [Wolof for “white/European”]. This is not a joke, or something to laugh at, or to take lightly. It is the kind of social recognition that even two-year-olds who can barely speak understand. ‘Tubaab,’ they say when they greet me.”
The article has a picture of her. Her skin is light but not quite "white", her eyes are brown, and her hair dark brown but not quite black. Her nose is broad, her lips are somewhat broad, and her hair seems somewhat straight.

In fact, “There is no genetic basis for race,” says Fullwiley, who has studied the ethical, legal, and social implications of the human genome project with sociologist Troy Duster at UC, Berkeley. She sometimes quotes Richard Lewontin, now professor of biology and Agassiz professor of zoology emeritus, who said much the same thing in 1972, when he discovered that of all human genetic variation (which we now know to be just 0.1 percent of all genetic material), 85 percent occurs within geographically distinct groups, while 15 percent or less occurs between them. The issue today, Fullwiley says, is that many scientists are mining that 15 percent in search of human differences by continent.
I've seen estimates of about 5 to 7 percent of the total variation being correlated with the traditional races.

Genetic Similarities Within and Between Human Populations
The fact that, given enough genetic data, individuals can be correctly assigned to their populations of origin is compatible with the observation that most human genetic variation is found within populations, not between them. It is also compatible with our finding that, even when the most distinct populations are considered and hundreds of loci are used, individuals are frequently more similar to members of other populations than to members of their own population. Thus, caution should be used when using geographic or genetic ancestry to make inferences about individual phenotypes.
 
Considering our original ancestors, basically being white is a genetic defect. And I am as white as the next honky.

Try this one. Since all people are from Africa, back in the day, having fair skin, light color hair, blue, green or hazel colored eyes are genetic defects! Being white, fair skin with light colored features comes from a mutated gene. Science and genetics are way out of my field yet I do understand that being fair skin running around the African savannah butt as naked in the blazing sun would pose a problem. Ah but then how did some of us get light colored skin and blond hair? As mentioned above it is all about selection and adapting to ones environment.

Why is race such a big deal especially in the western developed countries? Since we know that race can also be a social construct, the concept of race can now define what is known as the "other." How did the rich land owners in the American colonies protect their power, positions and wealth when a large % of the population was black, Native American and indentured piss ass poor whites? Well you just introduce the concept of race and its social construction of the so called superiority of the white race. So now the runaway slaves living with the Native Americans could be looked down upon by the piss ass poor white trash and indentured whites. The indentured whites and poor free whites were told that they "whiteness," entitled them to this feeling and fabricated notion of racial superiority. The poor whites now considered themselves with the blessing of their ruling class land owning whites that they were by birth superior to the Native Americans and blacks. So then why would the poor whites join with blacks and Native Americans if they were above the people of color.

The powerful land owners, bankers and other monied interests manipulated the lower class whites to be this "buffer" against the non whites all for an economic reason and to keep the status quo. We even see this, IMO, today. Race is a very powerful tool used against us as we, most, do not even know or see it. Race now becomes the tool for the controlling interest to introduce the concept of the "other." And a lot of us have been taught since a young age that there are the "us," and then there are those "others."

It is one of the oldest tricks in the book and it is played, adjusted and utilized in so many other ways to keep the controlling interest in power. I mean who would want "those" people living in "our" neighborhood?

America is a very racist nation. Whether you like him or hate him Obama was brave to get into the White House with all the bigot racist crazies out there. He will always be America's first black president. Now whether you support him or not that is another issue.

Peace

Has anyone every noticed that a lot of the white kids act like their black at the party till the cops show up? Nom sayin?

Pegasus
 
Why is skin color a marker for race and not eye color?
Why is eye shape but not ear shape?

why not fingernail shape?

Why hair texture and not hair color?
Why not try to find out?

More seriously, how do these features vary among human populations? I've never heard of notable variations of fingernails.

Most human populations have black hair and brown eyes, with the main exceptions being northern Europeans and nearby people. Europeans are rather oddly variable by human standards.
 
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