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The college "rape" epidemic

Loren Pechtel

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http://www.roanoke.com/news/educati...cle_5c28779e-a237-5e8d-b958-a1a2dadd83f1.html

article said:
“Ms. Kozak introduced and discussed the article with the members of SPEAK to make her point that ‘regret equals rape,’ and went on to state her belief that this point was a new idea everyone is starting to agree with,” the lawsuit contends.

She's the Title IX compliance officer.

So she gets to change her mind (in this case when she saw the guy kissing another girl) and turn consensual sex into rape?
 
That's not a bad idea. I'm thinking of getting a new car and it would be nice if, after I pay for it, I change my mind about consenting to the sale and charge the sales guy with theft for taking my money. Then I'd get my money back and, due to holes in the legal process, I'd also get to keep the car.
 
I think that some level of sanction might be leveled at men or women who are heartbreakers or cads and will be caught making out with another the day after having sex with their boyfriend or girlfriend. I don't claim to have a clear idea what that might be.

Seems like a rape claim is a revenge action. Screaming from the rooftops about the cheating would be a better action. I think that the double standard of a man calling out his cheating gf being slut shaming, while the reverse would not be is unfair.
 
I think that some level of sanction might be leveled at men or women who are heartbreakers or cads and will be caught making out with another the day after having sex with their boyfriend or girlfriend. I don't claim to have a clear idea what that might be.

Seems like a rape claim is a revenge action. Screaming from the rooftops about the cheating would be a better action. I think that the double standard of a man calling out his cheating gf being slut shaming, while the reverse would not be is unfair.

Why should there be a sanction for that? I think we, as a society, moved past that sort of thing when we stopped stoning people for adultery. If someone wants to scream, then fine. If someone wants to involve the authorities in any way, shape or form, then they've crossed a line which should not be crossed.
 
The difference is, Tom Sawyer, that a small fee will cover the wear on the car whereas no amount of money will redress the effects of a woman raped, cheated on, etc.

There was no rape in the first place. And cheating is something between the two of them and should not involve authorities, be they governmental or college. Besides, there was no cheating here - the two had no ongoing relationship when she saw him with another girl.

Do you agree with stoning women for adultery? Or is punishing people for cheating only ok when men are punished?
 
What about a civil suit against a guy who gets his long term gf to pay for schooling while he is philandering?

What if there is an email from him to his buddy saying "I got my sucker girlfriend to pay for my classes, while getting some other girls"?

For such a case of a shithead guy, claiming date rape could be a real and almost understandable temptation for the manipulated woman.

A reverse situation of a shithead woman, date rape is a much harder case to make and a violent (and very wrong) attack by the manipulated guy is a real risk.

Why not have a sanction as a form of redress?
 
http://www.roanoke.com/news/educati...cle_5c28779e-a237-5e8d-b958-a1a2dadd83f1.html

article said:
“Ms. Kozak introduced and discussed the article with the members of SPEAK to make her point that ‘regret equals rape,’ and went on to state her belief that this point was a new idea everyone is starting to agree with,” the lawsuit contends.

She's the Title IX compliance officer.

So she gets to change her mind (in this case when she saw the guy kissing another girl) and turn consensual sex into rape?

Yet another horrible miscarriage of justice but our resident feminists do not care that innocent male students are unjustly punished. In fact they agree with the "regret means rape" and "any alcohol use by woman means rape" sexist nonsense perpetuated by colleges and universities and made much worse by the 2011 Obama/Biden policy.
 
What about a civil suit against a guy who gets his long term gf to pay for schooling while he is philandering?

What if there is an email from him to his buddy saying "I got my sucker girlfriend to pay for my classes, while getting some other girls"?

What if a wife who is supported by her husband cheats on him? Should she be punished as well or do you think only philandering husbands should?
 
What about a civil suit against a guy who gets his long term gf to pay for schooling while he is philandering?

What if there is an email from him to his buddy saying "I got my sucker girlfriend to pay for my classes, while getting some other girls"?

What if a wife who is supported by her husband cheats on him? Should she be punished as well or do you think only philandering husbands should?

Come on, Derec...

first I used example of non married couple on purpose, since not currently covered by any sanction, unless common law has kicked in from duration of relationship.

Also, I have used both directions of cheating.
 
What about a civil suit against a guy who gets his long term gf to pay for schooling while he is philandering?

What if there is an email from him to his buddy saying "I got my sucker girlfriend to pay for my classes, while getting some other girls"?

For such a case of a shithead guy, claiming date rape could be a real and almost understandable temptation for the manipulated woman.

A reverse situation of a shithead woman, date rape is a much harder case to make and a violent (and very wrong) attack by the manipulated guy is a real risk.

Why not have a sanction as a form of redress?

Well, I don't think that he should deserve anymore of a sanction there than she would deserve if she ordered the lobster and then didn't put out. That would hold true even if she emailed a bunch of her friends about how she suckered the guy into paying for an expensive meal by making him think he'd get sex at the end of the night.

Neither are situations which require legal forms of redress. Now, if they had a verbal contract where he specifically promised exclusivity in exchange for her paying for school, then she'd have a suit against him for breach of contract, but if she just made the assumption that such a contract existed, he wouldn't be bound by her mistaken assumption.
 
The OP article reports only the expelled student's version of the events. Yet our resident rape apologists assume that the report is verbatim accurate and that nothing relevant has been omitted.
 
I think that some level of sanction might be leveled at men or women who are heartbreakers or cads and will be caught making out with another the day after having sex with their boyfriend or girlfriend. I don't claim to have a clear idea what that might be.

Seems like a rape claim is a revenge action. Screaming from the rooftops about the cheating would be a better action. I think that the double standard of a man calling out his cheating gf being slut shaming, while the reverse would not be is unfair.

I don't even think it was the next day. Furthermore, I see nothing about it that said it was an exclusive relationship.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.roanoke.com/news/educati...cle_5c28779e-a237-5e8d-b958-a1a2dadd83f1.html



She's the Title IX compliance officer.

So she gets to change her mind (in this case when she saw the guy kissing another girl) and turn consensual sex into rape?

Yet another horrible miscarriage of justice but our resident feminists do not care that innocent male students are unjustly punished. In fact they agree with the "regret means rape" and "any alcohol use by woman means rape" sexist nonsense perpetuated by colleges and universities and made much worse by the 2011 Obama/Biden policy.

I wasn't posting it as a miscarriage of justice, but rather the attitude of the Title IX officer.

- - - Updated - - -

The OP article reports only the expelled student's version of the events. Yet our resident rape apologists assume that the report is verbatim accurate and that nothing relevant has been omitted.

This is stuff from his lawsuit. Claiming things to be facts without being able to back it up isn't a good idea in court.
 
This is stuff from his lawsuit. Claiming things to be facts without being able to back it up isn't a good idea in court.
For some reason, you feel this is some sort of explanation to "Yet our resident rape apologists assume that the report is verbatim accurate and that nothing relevant has been omitted.". But it isn't.
 
The article in the OP says this:

It wasn’t until July that Jane Doe told a friend that she was sexually assaulted, the lawsuit claims. Then in October, Jane Doe, as a member of a student organization against sexual assault called SPEAK, attended a presentation by W&L Title IX officer Lauren Kozak. According to the lawsuit, Kozak shared an article, “Is it possible that there is something in between consensual sex and rape … and that it happens to almost every girl out there?”


The article talks about alcohol-fueled sex in which the woman later regrets the encounter.


“Ms. Kozak introduced and discussed the article with the members of SPEAK to make her point that ‘regret equals rape,’ and went on to state her belief that this point was a new idea everyone is starting to agree with,” the lawsuit contends.

And yet, if you follow the embedded link and read the article Kozak shared, you'll see it doesn't say regret equals rape, and does not encourage that sort of thinking:

It happens to us with consistent hookups, first dates, boyfriends, and one-night stands alike. We have sex with guys, because sometimes it’s just easier to do it than to have the argument about not doing it. But no one talks about it. Talking about it makes it a big deal. It makes us feel like we’re whining. It makes us feel like we’re being dramatic. And we don’t want it to be dramatic. We don’t feel entirely violated. It doesn’t affect us forever. We just feel like we got the short end of the stick, and that sometimes, we have to do something we don’t want to do, out of politeness or social obligation. So why bring it up? Why risk wrongfully tagging a guy with a serious, heavy label he doesn’t deserve? And more importantly, why risk being wrongfully tagged as “the girl who cried rape,” when we’re not trying to say it was rape at all? We’re saying we don’t know what it was. We just didn’t like it. But by refusing to acknowledge the existence of these rape-ish situations, we’re continuing to subject ourselves to them indefinitely.

I don't know what to make of that. Perhaps Ms. Kozak misrepresented the article, or perhaps the student's lawyers are misrepresenting Ms. Kovak's statements and reason for showing it to students.

If the rest of the article is accurate then it appears the system treated the male student unfairly, but only because he was just as drunk as the female student so whatever befell him should have befallen her too (assuming the school doesn't give immunity to students who report wrongdoing).
 
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That's not a bad idea. I'm thinking of getting a new car and it would be nice if, after I pay for it, I change my mind about consenting to the sale and charge the sales guy with theft for taking my money. Then I'd get my money back and, due to holes in the legal process, I'd also get to keep the car.

Pure
 
The fact that a faculty which teaches law, but makes its own judgement and is above the proper legal procedures for anyone making rape claims or accusing others of it, is somewhat farcical. That is to such cases are more serious than ordinary college discipline but should be based on innocence until proven guilty

Rape cases can be at best complex but certainly better than judgements by accusation only and even third party hearing from someone else. Rapes do occur and in some cases no actual rape took place. Using the legal process should at least obtain a more likely accurate verdict.
 
The article in the OP says this:



And yet, if you follow the embedded link and read the article Kozak shared, you'll see it doesn't say regret equals rape, and does not encourage that sort of thinking:

It happens to us with consistent hookups, first dates, boyfriends, and one-night stands alike. We have sex with guys, because sometimes it’s just easier to do it than to have the argument about not doing it. But no one talks about it. Talking about it makes it a big deal. It makes us feel like we’re whining. It makes us feel like we’re being dramatic. And we don’t want it to be dramatic. We don’t feel entirely violated. It doesn’t affect us forever. We just feel like we got the short end of the stick, and that sometimes, we have to do something we don’t want to do, out of politeness or social obligation. So why bring it up? Why risk wrongfully tagging a guy with a serious, heavy label he doesn’t deserve? And more importantly, why risk being wrongfully tagged as “the girl who cried rape,” when we’re not trying to say it was rape at all? We’re saying we don’t know what it was. We just didn’t like it. But by refusing to acknowledge the existence of these rape-ish situations, we’re continuing to subject ourselves to them indefinitely.

I don't know what to make of that. Perhaps Ms. Kozak misrepresented the article, or perhaps the student's lawyers are misrepresenting Ms. Kovak's statements and reason for showing it to students.

If the rest of the article is accurate then it appears the system treated the male student unfairly, but only because he was just as drunk as the female student so whatever befell him should have befallen her too (assuming the school doesn't give immunity to students who report wrongdoing).

Of course to an intelligent person there is no such thing as something in between consensual sex and rape but the media tends to create bigger messes out of existing confusions.
 
Of course to an intelligent person there is no such thing as something in between consensual sex and rape but the media tends to create bigger messes out of existing confusions.

OK, so what is it when one person has been manipulated or intimidated into having sex? In truth, they do not want to have sex, but it is easier to "go along to get along", easier to just do it than to deal with the other person's anger.

This is the area Lauren Kozak seems to be referring to.

I am not suggesting that it be called rape (and it doesn't sound like she is either), but it isn't consensual sex either.
 
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